RMweb Premium iands Posted February 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2020 Good afternoon All, I recently purchased another slide on ebay, the main reason was the quite spectacular water spray on taking water from the troughs (wonder how wet the crew got, and if there were any open windows in the first coach?). Then I got to wondering what service it was. Not much in the way of details other than the loco number (61856) and the location Clegg Hall. The troughs are (were) between Smithy Bridge and Rochdale. From the picture I deduce the train is heading towards Rochdale. What I assume is the pump-house for the troughs is on the right, and further right (out of shot) will be the Rochdale Canal (the water source). Given the shadow cast from the loco, the sun must also be to the right of the camera, confirming the trains direction (east to west). The head code (1X37) is obviously a special - but from where and to? As 61856 was withdrawn in December 1962, I put the date somewhere between 1959 and 1962 (I have no idea if 1959 is early enough, but thought it might not be much earlier than this given it is a colour slide - when did colour slides become available, and affordable?). I've looked through the "Six Bells" website but no luck identifying the service (so far). It looks a nice day, not much cloud, bit of sunshine, so I guess it is somewhere between April-September (but accept it could be earlier or a bit later). Lots of specials ran in this period and it could be anything from a Footex, a day trip to the seaside (Blackpool, North Wales coast, etc.), the Southport Flower Show (is this still an annual event?), or possibly a Race Special (Grand National?). Would anyone out there be able to provide details or confirmation of the special, or point me to another source (similar to Six Bells) that might have details? Any way, to the photo......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Four character head codes originate from c1961. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted February 20, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 minute ago, micknich2003 said: Four character head codes originate from c1961. Thanks Mick, that narrows down the timeframe a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 61856 was an Ardsley locomotive at that point. So probably wouldn't have been a stranger to the NW even though it's on a "special". http://brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=601103057&loco=188 Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted February 20, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2020 28 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: 61856 was an Ardsley locomotive at that point. So probably wouldn't have been a stranger to the NW even though it's on a "special". http://brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=601103057&loco=188 Jason Thanks Jason, I did have a look at BR Database and checked the locos depot details. Based on this I assumed the train originated in the West Riding somewhere (although I appreciate there could have been an engine change, say at Leeds). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Possibly an excursion from one of the big Yorkshire Towns/cities? That would explain the 1X## headcode? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Quote LNER K3 Class 2-6-0 No. 61856 (fitted with a GNR tender) reverses a 12-coach ECS train into St. Annes-on-Sea sidings after working a summer excursion into Blackpool Central on 14 July 1962. https://www.flickr.com/photos/picnic123/27950925733 I'm sure I did some research into that loco and went for 61812 instead. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 "K3 No. 61856 on Clegg Hall troughs with train (Bradford to Blackpool excursion) completely shrouded in water" http://www.steamindex.com/magrack/steamwld2.htm Sounds like the same photo. Cheers David 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted February 21, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2020 Many thanks Jason and David for your detective work - brilliant! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 5 hours ago, DavidB-AU said: ....... Sounds like the same photo. Which raises the the interesting question of who's got the copyright !!?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted February 21, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2020 8 hours ago, Wickham Green said: Which raises the the interesting question of who's got the copyright !!?! Good point. I don't think I do, in fact I'm certain I don't - not advertised as "with copyright" on ebay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 21, 2020 I wonder if the photographer got wet ? - he seems close. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, Wickham Green said: Which raises the the interesting question of who's got the copyright !!?! The owner of the original photosensitive material on which the exposure was made is the owner of the copyright. (Not going into the "what if I borrow your camera?" complication.) If that material is sold legitimately, copyright goes with it. If the photo was published in a magazine or similar, the usual practice would be to credit as "Photo: <original photographer>, <current owner> collection". Cheers David Edited February 22, 2020 by DavidB-AU Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumpey Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Sorry but, no it don't. Copyright stays with the person who pressed the tit unless transferred to some one else. Nothing to do with ownership of neg/slide. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) A quick Google suggests Colour Rail. Can't find it on the website though. Jason Edited February 22, 2020 by Steamport Southport Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 14 hours ago, DavidB-AU said: The owner of the original photosensitive material on which the exposure was made is the owner of the copyright. (Not going into the "what if I borrow your camera?" complication.) If that material is sold legitimately, copyright goes with it. Complicated area, but just to point out a slide purchased online may not be the "original" - it was quite common in the past to have duplicates of slides made and sell the duplicates, much like the more common selling prints of an image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blandford1969 Posted February 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: A quick Google suggests Colour Rail. Can't find it on the website though. Jason And that in itself is interesting as they sometimes borrowed slides from collectors and published them, so the copyright was not colour rails. There are some books published which have slides of mine in put to another person as the person who sold the originals 'lent' slides to this person who copied them and returned them after which the vendor sold them on. It is a very complicated area Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Indeed ........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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