New - 4D-003-004 - Western - DC - POP!!

[atom3624]

Reading through the various threads, it appears some go pop, some don't - mine did!!

 

'Won' last week, older stock New and received 100% as described - absolute beauty!!

 

I've a trusty Heljan and have often heard 'how much better' the Dapol 52 is, so thought I'd take the plunge.

 

Long story short:

1. Received yesterday. Gave a quick look over - 100% as described.
2. Put a little dab of oil on each bearing point, then set into motion on a 4th radius circle.
3. Power - 2/3 setting on a HM2000 - DC operation.
4. All lights operating - cab and indicator boards.
5. It's pulling 10 Mk2 Airfix, new Hornby, new Bachmann - mixed stock - lightish load - peanuts for the Heljan.
6. After 20-30 minutes' time I slow, stop, turn around and have it pulling the opposite way - one end is detailed, one ready for the NEM mounted coupling.
7. I leave it at the same setting, and when I return - there's an 'electrical smell', it's operating as previous, but no lights.
8. I opened it up, and I have some Bachmann 21-pin blanking plates, so fitted one - didn't work.
9. I replaced the original - same story - locomotive is powered OK, but no lights.
10. When I remove the blanking plate (?? - seems very large for a blanking plate???) there was NO odour from it.
11. When I held up the locomotive to me, the PCB had 'that odour' but no signs anywhere.

 

Is this typical of previous experiences?

How is this typically resolved?

Is that really a blanking plate - seems very big (I've seen DCC chips smaller than that!!)?

 

The seller is a reputable one and is contacting 'his repair man' then will be in touch.

I have contacted Dapol separately in case I can still consider a 'Warranty claim'.

 

Please see photos.

Please advise of thoughts.

 

Thanks,

 

Al.

 

PS  Agreed, it looks slightly more detailed than the Heljan, but the Heljan's NEVER let me down, never mind within one hour's operation!!

Edited February 22, 2020 by atom3624

[metropolitan cammell]

The blanking plug is unique to this and later class 22s so the Bachmann one won't work.

[metropolitan cammell]

Dcc supplies used to show improved ones on there website with better protection but it's gone now.

[atom3624]

Thanks for the replies - curious blanking plate I thought.

I've just sent an enquiry off to DCC Supplies as well.

 

I think I've 'pushed this' as far as I can for now, just very frustrating!!

I was anticipating so much.

 

The Heljan's just so good in operation, I was expecting similar.

 

Al.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, metropolitan cammell said:

The blanking plug is unique to this and later class 22s so the Bachmann one won't work.

I just installed a standard Bachmann 21pin decoder in a Dapol 22 and it worked fine (Hattons one didnt)... so in absence of a blanking plate you could just try runing it with a decoder.

 

Dont give up on the Dapol Western I find it one of the best.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by adb968008

[atom3624]

I'm only DC operation for now.

I'll see what the vendor, then seprately Dapol and DCC have to say - see if I can tie them together.

 

I definitely want to keep it as I've different nameplates coming from Fox as well!!

 

Al.

[atom3624]

Feedback from Dapol to DCC Supplies, to me is that my 'seller' is not a recognised distributor of Dapol products.

As a result, they are not prepared to support a Warranty claim for a replacement PCB.

 

Seller will refund me in full as I paid, and will simply 'parts it out' unfortunately ... look out for a beautiful Dapol blue body sometime in the next month I suppose!!

 

Thanks for nothing Dapol - your service and support is not what I expected of you!!

 

Al.

[Roy Langridge]

1 hour ago, atom3624 said:

Thanks for nothing Dapol - your service and support is not what I expected of you!!

 

Al.

 

Whilst not wishing to appear harsh, that is what you get for buying from ebay, and the like, from retailers that are not recognised stockists for a brand. Consumer law is that your issue is with the seller, not the manufacturer. Put yourself in Dapol's shoes - you bought this from somebody they don't know, who claims it is new, but you can't prove it. If manufacturers start taking liability for such issues, do I claim for any issue with some of the items that I have had stored "as new" for years untouched and never run? I bought new of somebody last week - honest ;-)

 

At the end of the day, there are recognised stockists who are there for a reason, they put effort into being that and deserve the custom more than some Tom, Dick or Harriet that just gets stock from who knows where and flogs it as new.

 

Sorry.

Roy

[atom3624]

Roy, that is fair comment.

 

Some consideration would have gone a long way just the same.

 

I had missed the old / new PCB thing on this locomotive or would have been more cautious.

 

Never mind.

 

Al.

 

 

[Guest Half-full]

3 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Whilst not wishing to appear harsh, that is what you get for buying from ebay, and the like, from retailers that are not recognised stockists for a brand. Consumer law is that your issue is with the seller, not the manufacturer. Put yourself in Dapol's shoes - you bought this from somebody they don't know, who claims it is new, but you can't prove it. If manufacturers start taking liability for such issues, do I claim for any issue with some of the items that I have had stored "as new" for years untouched and never run? I bought new of somebody last week - honest ;-)

 

At the end of the day, there are recognised stockists who are there for a reason, they put effort into being that and deserve the custom more than some Tom, Dick or Harriet that just gets stock from who knows where and flogs it as new.

 

Sorry.

Roy

I have to agree with this sadly, as much as its frustrating at times, the dealer network is there for a reason and its unfair to blame Dapol for protecting their interests.  Bachmann are the same, I guess Hornby are too.

 

On a positive note, the seller is refunding the OP, and there are plenty of new blue Westerns out there from registered dealers, and Dapol regularly re-run them.

 

Don't be put off, they are great, very well detailed loco's

[atom3624]

Quite simply I have a Heljan, which nearly does the detail at every level - perhaps the 'brow' above the cab windows is not quite formed as correctly as ideal, but I can place nearly anything behind it, and if I wanted could leave it all day without a single problem ...

 

Then I purchase this, which was most definitely BRAND NEW OLDER STOCK, and within an hour it's confined to the scrap heap ... wonderful!!

Quality it certainly isn't if it only runs such a short time ... should accept their shortcomings and be more responsible - not accepting this 'dealer protocol' - brand new should be of acceptable standards, which this is not!

 

Seller is supporting me, but VERY disappointed with lack of real support - from the manufacturer's representatives aka Dapol themselves.

 

Sorry guys but I'm a tad peeved at this one.

 

Al.

Edited February 24, 2020 by atom3624

[atom3624]

I've had a little walk about, kicked a few dogs - feel better now ... joking, love dogs !!

 

Can anyone advise which OO/HO Dapol Westerns have the revised PCB please?

 

I'm looking at 4D-003-018 - will this have a revised PCB as standard fit?

 

(If I understand correctly, the PCB was revised somewhere down the line, through several failures .... )

 

Al.

[Guest Half-full]

3 hours ago, atom3624 said:

Quite simply I have a Heljan, which nearly does the detail at every level - perhaps the 'brow' above the cab windows is not quite formed as correctly as ideal, but I can place nearly anything behind it, and if I wanted could leave it all day without a single problem ...

 

Then I purchase this, which was most definitely BRAND NEW OLDER STOCK, and within an hour it's confined to the scrap heap ... wonderful!!

Quality it certainly isn't if it only runs such a short time ... should accept their shortcomings and be more responsible - not accepting this 'dealer protocol' - brand new should be of acceptable standards, which this is not!

 

Seller is supporting me, but VERY disappointed with lack of real support - from the manufacturer's representatives aka Dapol themselves.

 

Sorry guys but I'm a tad peeved at this one.

 

Al.

I can certainly understand why you are peeved, it's happened to me before with a New-Old Stock Bachmann loco, bought from a non-authorised agent, and I had a big gripe to Bachmann about them not being prepared to repair it under warranty.

 

They explained to me that they don't uphold warranties on items bought from non-authorised sellers is because they dont know the history or quality of the item, ie had it been stolen from one of their trusted dealers and resold or tampered with before selling.  I was still annoyed but understood, their dealer network is there to protect the reputable shops, and themselves.  I would imagine that's Dapol's modus operandi also.

 

I did manage to split the loco for parts and got back more than I paid for it in total so it wasn't a loss, these days I only buy new from dealers that are well known and I've used before.   Used purchased are always a risk, but I don't expect them to be perfect (a lot of time the are though!)

 

You are right in the fact that brand new should be of acceptable standards, this is something Dapol do seem to have a problem with at times, though they do usually manage to sort the problems out in future runs.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Half-full

[atom3624]

I do understand what you, and others are saying - it does make sense, but is very frustrating.

 

I would prefer to get running rather than break for parts, so I'll be returning to the seller, who's been a total gent and 100% supportive in every option I've thrown at him - I've tried a few!

 

Never mind, looks like I'll either have to be patient and take one as a project, purchase as stated, from an authorised dealer, or simply give Dapol Westerns a wide berth. The latter would be very unfortunate.

Thing is, the Heljan is lacking in some detail, but not a lot, and is 100% reliable, so may leave the Dapol alone - plenty of other interesting locos out there.

 

Al.

[Guest Half-full]

4 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

I do understand what you, and others are saying - it does make sense, but is very frustrating.

 

I would prefer to get running rather than break for parts, so I'll be returning to the seller, who's been a total gent and 100% supportive in every option I've thrown at him - I've tried a few!

 

Never mind, looks like I'll either have to be patient and take one as a project, purchase as stated, from an authorised dealer, or simply give Dapol Westerns a wide berth. The latter would be very unfortunate.

Thing is, the Heljan is lacking in some detail, but not a lot, and is 100% reliable, so may leave the Dapol alone - plenty of other interesting locos out there.

 

Al.

I'm a very big fan of Heljan loco's, they'll pull the side of your house off given half a chance!

 

Don't write off the Dapol ones, they really are exquisite, I don't have any myself but have seen plenty on layouts and on here and the detail is very very nice!

[atom3624]

Thanks for your support.

 

I just don't want to consider a 'Marmite' locomotive - superb looking, but might work with the wind blowing the right way ....

 

Having said that, I've a Class 68, which is superb and touching a lot of wood, gives no problems at all - and can pull the other side of the house down while it's at it.

I suppose Dapol have been on the steep learning curve of which compromise to take - detail or quality, then latterly realised they need both!

 

Al.

[Pmorgancym]

At the end of the day, you've had your money back and can purchase a new new Western. 

[atom3624]

Well, it's being returned to the seller, who has agreed to refund.

 

A 'return case' has been opened so a clear resolution should be achieved.

 

I have no reason not to expect a return of my funds, and have my sights on a totally different locomotive now .... 

 

Pity, I did like the look of the Dapol Western, but it's currently one of those 'once bitten' situations.

 

I appreciate that their pricing is not that bad from established vendors like Hattons and Rails, and that were a similar situation occur I would assume (dangerous I know) they would be able to arrange a replacement under warranty ...

 

Moving on ... thanks for your conversation and its a pity.

 

Al.

[MikeParkin65]

I’ve got 3 Dapol Westerns, one first batch and one from each of the last 2 batches. I also had one Heljan but quickly realised the Dapol ones rubbed in the fact that the Heljan ‘face’ just isn’t right. It’s not just the horrible cab roof it is also the very distinctive windscreens.  The finish wasn’t as good either. 
 

All three of my Dapol ones are fine smooth runners though like all Dapol locos they are a little growly - not a problem for me as they are sound fitted and it’s not an obtrusive or excessive amount of mechanical sound In any case. Very strong locos and use less current than the Heljan. Only problem I had with my first batch loco was it had the wobbly wheels issue. DCC supplies are just down the road from me so I had that sorted under warranty.  

[atom3624]

Thanks Mike.

 

From my short experience, the Dapol did look better, we've all read of the 'brow' of the cab roof, and the finish, plus the extra detail.

 

It was obvious it couldn't compete with the Heljan for outright pulling power - this would doubtless get closer if I were to have been permitted to run in completely, but the Heljan was obviously superior.

 

Both were smooth runners, Heljan quieter - Dapol as you said, a bit growly, but smooth enough.

 

I might bite the bullet again, but not for now - don't trust them.

 

Al.

[cctransuk]

36 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

I might bite the bullet again, but not for now - don't trust them.

 

What have Dapol done to justify your lack of trust?

 

You chose to purchase a model outside Dapol's stated terms of trading - and came unstuck.

 

Whose fault?

 

Your purchase choice didn't have anything to do with price, did it? (ie. cheaper than purchasing from a Dapol authorised outlet).

 

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

 

John Isherwood.

[atom3624]

It's obvious that Dapol have a lot of supporters - I am one with the so-far-faultless 68, and the 59 on order - but am disappointed with zero support.

I didn't verify if the seller was franchised or not - they are very well established, so definitely not Joe down the Pub in a dark corner.

 

Never mind.

YES, it was at a more interesting, call it sensible price for a potentially 7 year old unused item which I still maintain should have been fit for purpose, which it wasn't. It's moved on to another life now.

 

Funds will be invested in something more reliable.

You're entitled to your thoughts, and thank you, but also, so am I.

 

I had requested from which model the revised / corrected PCB was fitted as standard, which nobody has responded to.

 

Al.

[Markn]

Just too add my experience of the Western. Its a different issue than yours, but alongside your report, it has still made me think about the reliability of the models again.

 

I bought one new from a shop last week (full price from one of the big shops). Ran it in on Sunday, and within a couple of hours it juddered to a halt and would not restart. The lights all still worked, but no motor movement.

 

It was running on dcc at the time, so I installed a replacement to check that it wasn't the chip. Still nothing.

 

It could just be something as simple as a loose wire, who knows, but it was a brand new model, so Its gone back to the shop now, and I am awaiting what I hope will just be a simple refund. Half of me wanted a replacement, as the model looked very nice, but I don't want the hassle of worrying for the next x years if it's going to breakdown again when it's not just as easy as sending it back to the shop.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Markn

[NIRCLASS80]

In fairness to Dapol I only have a few of their products but recently had 2 Imperium decoders that started playing up. Returned to Dapol with proof of purchase and replacements received, all good. 

[atom3624]

I suppose it is fair to ensure the 'liability' is restricted and not totally unlimited - would never survive!

 

I, like others here obviously, wish Dapol, and other manufacturers well.

 

Are we asking too much of the manufacturers, demanding more this, that, whatever ... or is it them trying to tempt us with one gadget too many?

 

A bit like computer OS / hardware - which is ahead of which I suppose.

 

I found a super detail Hornby Class 56 which has been purchased to replace the 52 - blue one as well - for a sensible price (direct replacement but from a completely different source).

I have an EWS one purchased used from Hattons, which is brilliant, so I am expecting this one to be as good!

 

Al.