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Cement wagons-Presflo, Prestwin & Conflat C


rodent279
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Quick question regarding cement wagons-would Presflo, Prestwin and Conflat C ( the 3 container variant of the Conflat A) have been seen in the same train, or were the unloading requirements of each too different to make it practical to mix them?

 

What about later varieties of cement wagon, with a v-shaped cylinder? Could they have been mixed with the earlier variants in the same train?

 

Cheers N

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Can't see any reason why, say Presflo and Conflat wagons wouldn't be seen in the same train; as it depends on customer needs.

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Presflo wagons would serve a bulk distribution point, whereas the containers "could" have been transferred to other means of transport for onwardd delivery - albeit I cannot recall seeing images of small containers on a lorry.

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I used to see trains passing through Cardiff which had originated from Penarth, Rhoose and Aberthaw cement works.

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Penarth closed early, circa 1969, but trains from the other plants (often combined at Rhoose or Barry) would contain Presflos and standard 12 ton vans for bagged cement.

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I cannot recall Conflat wagons operating from either plant.

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Brian R

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24 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Quick question regarding cement wagons-would Presflo, Prestwin and Conflat C ( the 3 container variant of the Conflat A) have been seen in the same train, or were the unloading requirements of each too different to make it practical to mix them?

 

What about later varieties of cement wagon, with a v-shaped cylinder? Could they have been mixed with the earlier variants in the same train?

 

Cheers N

Hi N,

 

I don't know enough about the workings of Conflat C wagons but as far as Presflo and Prestwin wagons are concerned both types were often found within mixed goods trains especially so the Prestwin and so the three types may well have been seen within the same train.

 

The Prestwin and Presflo wagons were generally used for different commodity types, Prestwins for fine sands and silica, and Presflos most usually cement and other types of powders. The commodity types that the Prestwin wagons were used for were relatively low volume commodities and were very often seen in low numbers within mixed goods trains, very often pairs. It was more usual that Presflo wagons were worked in block trains although they were occasionally seen in low numbers within mixed goods trains.

 

ICI had some double hopper Presflos that carried salt which were later redirected to carry slate powder, again this was not such a great traffic volume as the cement traffic so I would guess short block trains or within mixed goods.

 

My guess would be that if the commodities are different then it is unlikely that Presflo and Prestwin would form a block train but much more likely that they worked within mixed goods in small numbers.

 

There was a long wheelbase Presflo used for power station flyash and were categorised CSA / CSV, these were almost always worked in block trains.

 

Gibbo.

 

Gibbo.

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According to Dave Larkin, the Conflat C coding applied to (a) ex LNER Diagram 60 vehicles used to convey a meat container and (b) Rectank wagons used to convey whiskey containers so not involved with the conveyance of cement.

 

Where you thinking of the Conflat L?  These were involved with cement traffic but as the Presflos came along to replace them I would have thought it unlikely to see them together. Similarly Prestwins were more concerned with conveying silica based materials rather than cement.

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About the only traffic  that might have seen both Presflo and Prestwin together was the alumina traffic  to Fort William from Eastern Scotland.

I have seen one photo of Conflat Ls and Presflos working together; it was of Bridgewater Yard during the construction of Hinkley Point A in the late 1950s. The L-type containers were being lifted and emptied into tipper lorries with covers (not tarpaulins, but felted planks), whilst the Presflos were being pumped into powder tanks.

The main traffic for Conflat Ls when the Presflos took over was limestone powder for use as a flux. Flows included Ferryhill to Teesside,  and other flows to Cardiff (East Moors), Sheerness, and doubtless others. When this traffic went, due to plant closures and changes in steel-making, the wagons seemed to migrate to Tyneside to work as shunting runners with the resident 03s

I doubt that the V-tanks worked in the same trains as Presflos, as the former were almost all air-braked; they might have been seen next to one another at the same cement works. What you might see alongside both types is the Cemflo, available from Accurscale..

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3 hours ago, br2975 said:

Can't see any reason why, say Presflo and Conflat wagons wouldn't be seen in the same train; as it depends on customer needs.

.

Presflo wagons would serve a bulk distribution point, whereas the containers "could" have been transferred to other means of transport for onwardd delivery - albeit I cannot recall seeing images of small containers on a lorry.

.

I used to see trains passing through Cardiff which had originated from Penarth, Rhoose and Aberthaw cement works.

.

Penarth closed early, circa 1969, but trains from the other plants (often combined at Rhoose or Barry) would contain Presflos and standard 12 ton vans for bagged cement.

.

I cannot recall Conflat wagons operating from either plant.

.

Brian R

The 'Aberthaw Cement', 6C16 I think but it's a long time ago now, was one of my link jobs.  Hymek then 37, pick up empties (mixed Presflos and Vanfits) from Long Dyke, work to Rhoose, set back into down refuge and wait for traffic from Rhoose (Aberthaw Cement) works.  When traffic ready, shunt to deliver inbound and remove outbound traffic positioned at stop board by works loco, then proceed to Aberthaw Blue Anchor down loop (old platform road).  Run around train, remove traffic for Aberthaw Cement Works, draw back onto down main and propel to Aberthaw West Ground Frame (ex Aberthaw West signal box).  Obtain release from Blue Anchor, and operate ground frame to access up main with loco, leaving stock for delivery on down main, pick up outgoing wagons and shunt back to down main to collect inbound stock, shunt to up main and set back into works siding.  

 

This often involved a delay while an up class 7 ran past, requiring you to lock out the ground frame while it did so and waited for it to arrive from Ewenny Road, and could be fun in poor conditions as the running line is on as steep gradient rising towards Blue Anchor here and the works siding is even steeper.  Having completed work here, lock out the ground frame, draw forward on up main to clear trailing crossover beyond road bridge at Blue Anchor, set back on to Rhoose portion in the down loop, couple, perform brake continuity test, and right away Long Dyke.  Proper railway work and you could work up a bit of a sweat on a hot day, but one of my favourite turns.  A feature of it was 'Roger the Checker', who was picked up at Barry and returned there at the end of the day, whose job it was to check wagon numbers.  He was a lad of about my own age, and a nice enough bloke, completely harmless, but not perhaps the sharpest knife in the tray, a situation compounded on Fridays when he'd been paid and got himself, um, 'chemically refreshed' (as in stoned out of his tiny gourd) the night before; he was best left to sleep it off in the back cab as he was a bit of a liability on a running line while shunting was in progress, away with his spliff dream fairies.  You scribbled the wagon numbers down on a an old wagon label for him to copy up later...

 

But you don't want to hear the rambling reminiscences of an old git; you want to know about the wagons.  Presflos and Vanfits, including the odd GW, Ashford, or LMS examples, all fitted and in circuit working because they were filthy with cement dust. I cannot now recall if the vans had yellow circle circuit stickers; my instinct is to say they didn't, but they did feature Aberthaw Cement logo labels.  The bags at this time were heavy grade paper and would frequently split, releasing cement everywhere; it was a generally filthy job that you wore your dust coat and bib'n'braces for, not your uniform.  At Long Dyke, we coupled off and returned to Canton LE, but the traffic was forwarded to Lawrence Hill, where there was a distribution depot; IIRC some were labelled onwards from there.  I never saw any vehicles other than Presflos and Vanfits on this job, certainly no Conflats or containers.  It was apparently a 56xx or 94xx job in steam days.

 

The Penarth working had finished before my time, but I believe the stock was similar, Presflos and Vanfits.  The works was at Cosmeston, indeed the quarry is what is now Cosmeston Country Park, and there is said to be a 3' gauge steam crane drowned in the lake, and the operating company was Portland Cement.  I believe it was a 94xx job in steam days, and a D95xx job in it's final years, but I couldn't tell you where the traffic went; not Lawrence Hill, though.

 

You might have seen Presflo wagons in the same train as Conflats in North Wales.  They were a feature of the Blaenau Festiniog (period spelling) branch from Bala Jc in it's later years, delivering cement to the major construction projects in that area, Trawsfynydd Power Station and the Treweryn Dam, but this was different to the block circuit traffic of the South Wales trains.  Presflos were sometimes taken as tail traffic on passenger trains on this branch, presumably by Section Appendix authority as they were not XP rated and would not normally have been permitted.

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Just now, The Johnster said:

trains from the other plants (often combined at Rhoose or Barry) would contain Presflos and standard 12 ton vans for bagged cement.

.

Combined, and split, at Blue Anchor by my time, Brian.  

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2 hours ago, SP Steve said:

According to Dave Larkin, the Conflat C coding applied to (a) ex LNER Diagram 60 vehicles used to convey a meat container and (b) Rectank wagons used to convey whiskey containers so not involved with the conveyance of cement.

 

Where you thinking of the Conflat L?  These were involved with cement traffic but as the Presflos came along to replace them I would have thought it unlikely to see them together. Similarly Prestwins were more concerned with conveying silica based materials rather than cement.

You are right! Conflat L, don't know where I got Conflat C from!

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The only South Wales service I recall using Conflat L (and containers) was, as Brian H ( Fat Controller) mentioned was between the Steetley Dolomite works, at Walnut Tree West and the GKIS New Dowlais works (later BSC East Moors), Cardiff which reversed at Aber Junc then ran via Radyr.

.

Perhaps mention could be made of the 55 Conflat LD wagons, a number of which were used in dolomite traffic from Walnut Tree West to Ebbw Vale steel works.

.

Brian R

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3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

But you don't want to hear the rambling reminiscences of an old git; .

 

Seems to work for the rest of the forum!

Yours are real and interesting ramblings though, informative to those of us who were on the other side of the railway fence so to speak, so keep 'em coming says I.

 

Mike.

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Presflos and PCAs would not normally run mixed in block trains, but they might appear together on local trips.

In the early 1980s at the changeover from the traditional vacuum braked network to Speedlink both types of wagons could be seen together in yards and terminals.

At Westbury a trip prepares to leave for the Blue Circle Cement works at Heywood Road.

Westbury_08942.jpg.8a6ffd49e306953c77779b44d7b539d7.jpg

08942 with HEAs of coal, PCAs of flyash from Longannet, and a presflo, and brake van pass Westbury station, 23/8/83

 

cheers

  

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3 hours ago, Rivercider said:

Here is a working from Widnes Tanhouse Lane with a mix of Presflos and Cemflos, presumably heading for Earles Sidings?

  scan0059.jpg.0f0949c47e051cdcad86306c459663c8.jpg

37040 at Warrington 23/3/82

 

cheers

Were some of the Presflos through air piped then?

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31 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Were some of the Presflos through air piped then?

There were six 'ferry-fitted' Presflos with through pipes, but the Cemflos in the photo are also vac-braked, and date from the 1960s. After the Thirsk accident, they were relegated to short distance work, such as trains from Earles to Manchester, Widnes and Wakefield.

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