Detailing a scratch built Pub

[AyJay]

Hello,

I am in the middle of constructing a 4mm (OO gauge) victorian Pub for a town scene.

Because I could not find a kit that I liked, I decided to go down the scratch built path and I am making it out of card.

Having spent ages looking at countless photos of real pubs, I kept coming back to one particular Pub, The Queen Vic. Now I know that this is not a real Pub and I had decided not to try to make an exact replica. 

So here it is and I am calling it The Prince Albert.

It's not finished! There is going to be a portrait of  Prince Albert on the wall above the corner door and I have prints of the name to stick on the black trim above the bar windows. I'm also working on an interior. The model will slot into a recess on which there will be a roadway with footpath, hence the foundation.

However, the frontage is a bit, well, plain...

My skill with a paint brush would not go as far as doing justice to the gold trim that is the lining on the prototype, also the edging has depth to it.  I would also like to have ornate lights on the outside, as well as flower baskets, but would not know where to source, or make, them.

 

Can anyone with experience in modelling buildings, please advise me as to how I can improve the frontage?

 

Thank you.

 

[grahame]

Consider using a Posca paint pen for fine lines (see thread elsewhere).

 

Add brewery branding, signs and notices.

[melmerby]

Gaugemaster do some bracket lamps: (currently OOS as are most of their lamps)

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/d-soft-black-wall-mounted-gas-lamps-2.html

 

Kytes lights:

https://www.kyteslights.com/index.php?view=all&cPath=24

 

Something for inspiration, about the same size as yours:

https://goo.gl/maps/i8TqaAyGsUKSZMps5

 

Edit

As an aside that pub, which used to have the same landlady (Agnes Philomena Creggan) for 30+ years and was one of Camra's longest continuous entries, has now closed and is boarded up.

 

Another:

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by melmerby

[AyJay]

A thousand bars. Hic!

Thanks for the suggestions,  I particularly like the Gaugemaster lights.

A good friend of mine, who is into calligraphy, has suggested that I use a liner pen and practise putting paint lines onto scrap card. 

If that fails, then its off to WHSmith for these pens, Grahame.

Another issue that I have is the name,  I have generated it in a Word file and printed it out; but I am very limited in available colours, the nearest colour available is wrong (too purple)!  See below.

Having seen the picture of The Anchor (above), thanks Melmerby, I am now wondering if I could get away with having a black background instead?  Think I'll do a trial print and offer it up to see what it looks like (looks impressive on the screen).

I now realise that my photograph shows up all the imperfections that I had otherwise not noticed. e.g. colours too dull, door handles are scruffy with glue, paint mark on brick paper, gaping join on corner, scruffy door steps, door glazing smudged with glue. and so on.

However, I think my chosen portrait is impressive, just need to put a frame round it.

 

[melmerby]

What's the problem with Word colours?

I thought they were almost limitless.

 

All trhose pubs are Grade 2 listed ones in Birmingham where Gold on Black seems quite common.

The Queens arms is a very modern colour scheme.

[kandc_au]

If you are trying to replicate the front like the pic you posted, you could try a darker shade on maroon on the lower sections, then do the painted sections in a gloss varnish spray.
Really depends on what you want to achieve. Gold lining on that would look brilliant!

khris

[Siberian Snooper]

On 24/02/2020 at 08:49, melmerby said:

What's the problem with Word colours?

I thought they were almost limitless.

 

All trhose pubs are Grade 2 listed ones in Birmingham where Gold on Black seems quite common.

The Queens arms is a very modern colour scheme.

 

I thought I recognised the Anchor, I have supped a few pints in there over the years.

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

For the lining, you could cut out card templates and draw round them with a lining pen.

 

 

[melmerby]

Many of the Birmingham Pubs were faced with terracotta bricks, which was very popular there in Victorian times, it might not suit other parts of the country.

In fact looking at listed pubs in London that style is rare.

[AyJay]

I like the style of The Queen Vic, it reminds me of a Pub that my Father and I used to walk past when going to visit my Grandmothers, I still remember that distinctive smell of Stout combined with cigarettes... Besides, it looks good when next to the terrace of houses that I have built from Howard Scenics (much better than the offering from Metcalfe). 

Regarding the background colour, in Microsoft Word. When I right click on the background and select Text Highlight Colour, it only gives me fifteen colour options,  but black looks good.

A friend has just loaned me a mapping pen and a gold paint pen to play with, so I'll have fun experimenting this evening :-)

I'm also pleased with finding a big book on Oriental Carpets in my local Oxfam shop. It's photos will give me enough carpets and wallpaper for many buildings.

 

There may be more photo's presently.

[2mmMark]

Perhaps see if anyone makes etched brass letters, which you could polish up to make the pub name.  A coat of varnish would be needed to stop them tarnishing.

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, 2mmMark said:

Perhaps see if anyone makes etched brass letters, which you could polish up to make the pub name.  A coat of varnish would be needed to stop them tarnishing.

Your wish is my command:

 

https://www.scalelinkfretcetera.co.uk/product-category/frets/alphabet-and-numerals/

 

e.g.

https://www.scalelinkfretcetera.co.uk/product/slf018/

Edited February 26, 2020 by melmerby

[simonmcp]

4 hours ago, AyJay said:

Regarding the background colour, in Microsoft Word. When I right click on the background and select Text Highlight Colour, it only gives me fifteen colour options,  but black looks good.

Hi, if you right click on the colour it should bring up a new pop up window where you can choose any colour you like, firstly from a hexagon shape or if you click again you can choose from all colours. I am not in front of my copy of Word so sorry for the slightly vague instructions.

[AyJay]

Well I looked on the link above.  I have decided to dismiss the idea of letters, Trying to get the alignment correct for 3mm lettering would be too difficult, a letter only has to be slightly out to show up. So I am sticking with my gold on black printing. However....

 

What a treasure trove of brass frets this website is!  If only I had seen it before starting this project, cos I could have used a set of ornate window frames.   My wish list has now got 'door furniture', 'clocks & weather vanes' and 'manhole & drain covers' added to it.

 

Well last night I took the plunge and after a practise run, added the gold lining.  It's not perfect when looked at closely, but from a normal viewing distance, well I think it's pretty impressive.  That just leaves drain pipes, nameplates & sign, chimney pots and finishing the interior.

Photos to follow.

[melmerby]

Yes there's a lot of frets available

It was "Scale Link" but they have passed them on, hence the new website & name.

Other sources for building bits and bobs are Wills & Ratio (from Peco) with such things as windows, doors, gutters & downpipes and suchlike.

[AyJay]

Well here is my completed pub exterior, alongside the terrace of houses that it is going to live with.

I still have the interior to finish,  the 'carpet' and 'wallpaper' are cut outs of rugs from a book on oriental carpets.

I am also attaching a rear view of my terrace, particularly proud of this.  The handle on the privvy door is a staple.

The drain pipes are a length of plastic covered wire that I got from my model shop.  The gutter is plasticard that I carved.

[AyJay]

[melmerby]

Nice job there, that looks really good.

 

Is the door to the left front for the "off sales"?

Most pubs used to have one where you could buy stuff for home consumption, without entering the pub proper.

All gone these days, the space used incorporated into the pub proper.

 

EDIT The carpet looks like one of Wetherspoon's "specials"

 

IMHO Brewery branding is required. Could be somewhere on the 1st floor on framed wooden boards between windows?

Edited February 29, 2020 by melmerby

[grahame]

Some nice detailing there.

 

I've been following this thread with interest as I'm in roughly the same position with a scratch-built unfinished low-relief pub (although in N/2mm scale) that needs finishing and detailing:

 

 

One thing is I'd mention (something I suggested earlier) is that some form of brewery/beer branding is required. Many tied houses have corporate colour schemes and style (especially in London and cities where there is often multi-brewery competition) while free houses tend to make a feature of being free from tie. My little pub was a Bass pub (I can't remember if it was Bass Worthington or Bass Charrington) so the tall display board needs a red triangle and the flowery Bass signwriting (and if Bass Charrington - most probably - it will require those white cube outside lights with red triangles on the sides).

 

 

[AyJay]

Gosh, I like your windows Grahame!  and the jib is an interesting feature too, and in N gauge too (seriously impressed). I can imagine this being sited in London's docklands.

 

Yes branding!  That really fixes the location and I have resisted stating a location for my layout; just a fictitious UK town.  I suppose I could go for a fictitious brewery e.g. the 'Newton & Ridley' that is the 'Rovers Return'.  If it's London suburbs/home counties, I can think of: Watneys. That would be simple, just buy a barrel and paint it red.

Fullers, not sure what theirs is.   McMullens, think that's a deer?  Charringtons.   Coming closer to home, it would be Arkells or Brakespears, theirs is a bee.

 

I'm now going to fabricate some upholstered bench seats and put white plastic rods on the bar, to represent 'beer engines'.  I have a few tables & chairs.   Can anyone recommend what I can do for a Till and some customers?

I also notice that one of the brass frets, see earlier link, has decorative pub signs, so I'll have to have one of them!

[jcm@gwr]

Very nice, both front and back, and the interior as well.

One small point, and I'm being picky (because it's difficult to find much wrong!),

how do the bar staff get in and out of the serving area?

 

Oh, and where's the dartboard?

 

And depending on your era,

Skittles, bar billiards, shove ha-penny, etc.

[rovex]

Great work but that interior will date the pub. As Built it would in all likelihood have had a saloon bar and a snug, or similar named subdivisions. It's only since the 70’s that all these rooms were made into one

[melmerby]

12 hours ago, rovex said:

Great work but that interior will date the pub. As Built it would in all likelihood have had a saloon bar and a snug*, or similar named subdivisions. It's only since the 70’s that all these rooms were made into one

The U shaped bar was not unusual as with suitable partitioning all areas can be served.

I used to go to a pub in the 90s that still had a similar arrangement, complete with the partitions.

 

At one time pubs had bars and lounges, the bar being the most basic room with a lino or similar floor and hard seating (probably included the dartboard), the lounge had typically a carpeted floor, comfy seats and higher prices!

 

*Don't forget the rather superfluously named "Smoke Room" when all rooms in a pub were filled with smoke!

Edited March 1, 2020 by melmerby

[grahame]

22 hours ago, jcm@gwr said:

 

how do the bar staff get in and out of the serving area?

 

 

A lifting flap? It's down on the model to stop Del Boy falling through it. ;-)

 

 

[AyJay]

Del Boy! Humm, now there's an idea.  I was wondering about having Dirty Den giving Angie her 'Christmas present'.

 

A valuable source of reference for me has been 'Making Model Railway Buildings', by Andy McMillan, Crowwood press. ISBN 978-1-84797-340-5.

It has been particularly helpful in showing me ideas on how to improve my models.

What was also insightful was that Andy tackles the question of  'How far do I take it?' 

He likens the model to a painting. Seen from close up, it is not as accurate as a detailed technical drawing. But seen from a distance, it conveys just the right impression and looks much more real than a technical drawing.

He presents two ideas:

1. Only model what can be seen.  It is better to make four three-sided buildings, than to make three four-sided buildings that you will never see the backs of.

2. Only take the model to as much detail as it needs. It's no good trying to build the perfect model that never gets finished.

 

I think I'll stop this model here.  Oh I want to buy lamps to hang outside, along with a hanging sign, possibly flower baskets also.  I'd also like to put seats + tables inside.  But more importantly, I have been shut away for 4-months making this and the terrace of houses. Now that spring is finally here (?) I want to get it installed in it's new home.  I also have two more Victorian house kits to build, which will probably wait.

 

When I'm satisfied with the result, I think I'll submit a write-up to BRM. So keep your eyes open. :-)

Thanks for the input everyone, it has been helpful and entertaining.