The Good the not so Good and the plug Ugly

[Porkscratching]

The tinplate S&T dept don't hang about, the spring is now re positioned and now works very well, cheers Mr N !

[Bassettblowke]

Now that had me puzzled,  on mine looking even more closely the indent for the hole  on the second corner hadn’t been fully punched through, a slight tap with a centre punch removed the blockage. The hole is a different diameter to the other one so I think someone has widened the hole in the past, the ragged edge also being an indicator.

I also removed the spring which didn’t make an ha’porth of difference to the action and given its condition it will probably be binned. If the signal is used at all it will probably be as a static ornament, next time I stumble upon my box of springs I shall look to see if anything comparable is in stock. Head scratching time to see if anything further warrants doing.

[Nearholmer]

Have you tried simply shortening the spring?

[Bassettblowke]

Its so plug ugly I couldn’t put up with it, I might give it a dip in the rust treatment and reappraise. Meanwhile I couldn’t resist the temptation to attack the signal here’s a few pics of the start of the revamp.

[Porkscratching]

You're probably best off now giving it a complete stripper and start from scratch, like your tank wagon refurb.

..need to be careful of the little coloured  celluloid lamp gel things tho, assume they can be removed somehow..?

[Bassettblowke]

That’s problematic normally with Hornby stuff it would indeed be chucked in the caustic pronto but this little beastie has crimped wires and tiny tabs so the repaint may have to be done with everything in situ either by spray with masked off areas or brush maybe a combination of the two. You can see some of the rust on the paper towel it was this that provoked the attack. I can live with dents, paint chips, fading paint even peeling paint to a degree but rust just gives me the heebeejeebies so as much as possible had to go and inevitably that meant some paint loss as well.

[Porkscratching]

I'm sure you'll make a grand job of it whichever way,  going by the tanker!

I shall have to dig out my other signals again and have a fiddle with them too, tho I'm perhaps not so bothered by rust as your good self !!

Be nice to get them working..

 

[Bassettblowke]

Well the last resort if I do make a pigs ear of it will be caustic dip, over the next couple of days I will see how things pan out. As you have probably gathered I do get a lot of satisfaction out of the renovation process but there is always the risk element in  that you may end up in a worse place than when  you started. I have a stalled B/Lowke compound project awaiting attention that proves that point.

[Bassettblowke]

Having slept on it I decided to try and break it down a tad and much to my surprise the twisted tab holding the ladder to the base was straightened and freed with little drama, after that it was simply a matter of prying the top of the ladder free from the locating holes on either side at the top of the post. I now have unobstructed access to the back of the ladder which especially at the top has a fair crop of red rust. Next step another search through the paint stash for a suitable black.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Bassettblowke

[Bassettblowke]

The de rust completed I thought it still looked a tad crusty so into the pot it went, a rinse with cold water a scrub with the scotchbrite and a blast from hers trulys scorched earth hair dryer/blaster and the first and with a bit of luck the last coat of white is on.

whenever something goes in the caustic it’s a feeling of crossing the rubicon, there is no going back,  all originality is destroyed and it ceases to be of any value as a collectible. That said hopefully when it’s finished you have an item that is functional and attractive to the eye and ready to be put to use.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Bassettblowke

[Nearholmer]

What is your source (I nearly wrote 'sauce') of caustic soda? Drain cleaner?

 

And, what is your recipe? Heat gently on the stove while nobody else is home?

 

Aren't the fumes a bit rough when you warm it?

[Porkscratching]

Isn't drain cleaner, ie One Shot, strong hydrochloric acid ?

I've used it recently and it attacks the surface of even stainless steel, nasty stuff, I've not thought of it for paint removal, it dissolves most things!

[Nearholmer]

According to the data sheet, One Shot is 91% Sulphuric Acid. BL signals placed in it would probably disappear!

 

But, caustic soda is commonly used as a drain cleaner, short of the point where there is a total blockage, I think because it dissolves fats, which are often a problem, not only from food prep, but because they are in things like shampoos and conditioners.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Bassettblowke]

[Porkscratching]

Interesting, that is the stuff that gets all paint off then.?

[Porkscratching]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

According to the data sheet, One Shot is 91% Sulphuric Acid. BL signals placed in it would probably disappear!

 

But, caustic soda is commonly used as a drain cleaner, short of the point where there is a total blockage, I think because it dissolves fats, which are often a problem, not only from food prep, but because they are in things like shampoos and conditioners.

 

 

I stand corrected Mr N !...I always get sulphuric and hydrochloric acids round the wrong way...

[Bassettblowke]

This is the stuff I use I certainly wouldn’t use Acid neither sulphuric, hydrochloride or any of that ilk.
 

i add the soda very gradually to the vessel that contains freshly boiled, not boiling water which holds the item to be stripped, so you are adding the caustic soda to very hot water this creates an immediate reaction normally a brief hiss and bubbling, slowly add more, no more than a teaspoon at a time sprinkling the soda onto the water this keeps the reaction under control. Keep slowly sprinkling the soda until the water starts to change colour, it will turn into the colour you are stripping. Stop adding soda and leave for five minutes, then extract the object, this is best done by an attached piece of wire, if it’s stripped of paint it’s job done if some paint remains re immerse it and let the caustic do its work. If you think the solution is weak add some more soda. Never Never be tempted to add or pour the soda in large amounts this will create an uncontrollable reaction be patient and work methodically. Once the item is clear of paint rinse with cold water and pour the solution down the plug hole flushed with copious amounts of water and at the same time rinse the object you are stripping. Do not store the solution it’s cheap and storing a toxic harmful substance is dangerous.

Do not breath the fumes protect yourself with appropriate clothing, long sleeves, gloves and eye protection and manage your  work space, no pets or children and only do the job where you have access to running water. Take your time be methodical.

 

the biggest no no is never ever add water to caustic soda this will create an hissing, spitting uncontrolled chemical reaction.

 

That’s my method, reading the above it seems like a right old palaver but in reality once you have done it once it becomes a very quick process.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Bassettblowke

[Il Grifone]

Sulphuric acid is used as a last shot drain cleaner. We had a blockage when we lived in Turin. All the caustic soda we tried failed completely. So we called a plumber. He just poured sulphuric acid down the plug hole and it cleared very quickly! How concentrated it was I don't know, but I'll leave it to the experts! It's very nasty stuff, (as is hot caustic soda!*). I do use caustic soda for removing paint (cold - just give it time), but keep a mild acid (e.g. vinegar) handy to deal with spills.

 

While I school, I tried boiling some meat in caustic soda (how to make soap). It dissolved quite quickly. I used hot soda to remove paint only once (a Dublo Castle).  It worked, but I put it down to the ignorance of youth and have never repeated the procedure.

 

In Italy, one can (or could - I haven't looked recently) obtain hydrofluoric acid to treat rust (even in supermarkets!*). This is really evil stuff and can cause deep burns. Somehow we have acquired some (family heirloom?), but I don't know how to get rid of it safely.

* One can also obtain almost pure ethanol!

 

I've just noted the above caustic soda instructions  say, "Mix".  This should read  add soda to water and NOT the other way round. It does state this further down under the heading, "Important", but this is not clear enough IMHO. It also fails to warn that the mixing process generates heat.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Nearholmer]

Does caustic soda cause an adverse affect on Mazak and/or white-metal?

 

i have a vague recollection of reading somewhere that it leaches something out and leaves it weakened, but I may have made that up?

 

It will certainly dissolve aluminium, so HD buildings might react a bit too well with it. Maybe it leaches aluminium out of Mazak.

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Porkscratching]

That's a great tutorial with the caustic up there BB!...I shall get some and try it, (with all the above caveats), for my next paint removal fest..!

[Bassettblowke]

I’ve never experienced any problems with diecast or tinplate, I only leave the model in the potion until the job is done, no longer, in the case of a Dinky toy (old school variety) less than a minute does the job and tinplate even less. A thorough rinse and a once over with a scotchbrite pad and off you go.

you often see stripped doors and old pine furniture with a furry type finish this is caused by over exposure to a hot caustic dip it has the same effect on the lead work used in leaded light panels. 
one other word of warning once you realise how quick and effective this is you may be struck down with the same affliction as me commonly known as restoritous a sad condition and an all to common side effect of over exposure to vintage trains and toys.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Bassettblowke

[Porkscratching]

The furry finish on our stripped pine doors is due to the bloomin' cat scratching to be let in, and out..(repeatedy )....!

[Bassettblowke]

Almost at the finishing post, no satin black in my rattle can stash so casting the eyeballs around my other paints I came across this water based all surface paint by Rustins, quick dry goes on easily with little or no brush marks. The pins which hold the semaphore arm and the lever in place broke on removal. Looking at them closely they appeared to be nothing more than panel pins with the ends crimped. The only panel pins I had that fitted were brass but I quite like the look so brass it is. All that remains is to touch up the semaphore arm and crimp the ends of the pins.

[Nearholmer]

It shall go to the ball!

[Bassettblowke]

21 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Does caustic soda cause an adverse affect on Mazak and/or white-metal?

 

i have a vague recollection of reading somewhere that it leaches something out and leaves it weakened, but I may have made that up?

 

It will certainly dissolve aluminium, so HD buildings might react a bit too well with it. Maybe it leaches aluminium out of Mazak.

 

Delving back into my distant memory when stripping cheapo old pine furniture ( my grandfather a cabinet maker disparagingly called it hammer and nail furniture) once the piece was removed from the caustic tank it was dipped into a solution of water and white vinegar this was to neutralise the effects of the caustic. The place I had the misfortune to work in was slapdash in its approach and I didn’t hang around long. If not dried and stored properly black mould could easily establish itself and the appearance was then ruined only suitable for paint finishing. Caustic would also quickly ruin veneer and de laminate plywood so no use at all on your long garaged De Havilland Mosquito .Periodically the rinse tank was drained and refilled and a gallon of white vinegar added.
If you are concerned about the effects of caustic long term you could adapt this approach to neutralise any ongoing reaction within the alloy.. I am no chemist or metallurgist so I have no grasp of any of the chemical changes that may or may not occur I can only go on my limited experience with Diecast Toys and Tinplate and to date I have encountered no problems whatsoever.

i would add that I don’t use the white vinegar myself,but it may allay any concerns if you are about to dip the Countesses  Tiara.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Bassettblowke