Manor Announced for 00

[Dunsignalling]

18 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I would prefer someone do a Saint and a County, both of which reside at Didcot and are nether well modelled...

A rather unfair slight on the efforts of the GWS, IMHO. 

 

John

[mdvle]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

There are plenty of (prototypically) 2-car sets for those with space issues, though the prices (of recent releases, anyhow) are seldom what I'd define as "budget". 

 

Except most of the DMU/EMU units built in the last 20 years don't typically come in 2 car sets - particularly those that have yet to appear in model form.

 

And the real purpose of potentially offering an un-prototypical 2 car set is to boost sales to make the entire project less risky, and hence more likely to happen.

 

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

On a personal level, the only DMUs that would interest me are just 3-car and 4-car anyway, but I'd be very reluctant to order an abbreviated unit without a certainty of getting the rest at the same time.

 

Agree, the only way it works is if both complete sets and the 2-car sets are offered at the same time

[Budgie]

12 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I think manufacturers are scared to touch it, as rumours persist that one manufacturer has been working on it for “several years” already.

 

So maybe some company that has not been working on it should announce that they are going to produce one.

 

12 hours ago, MattA said:

Now that I think about it, Rapido do have the suggestion box open for new RTR locos...

 

I was thinking of suggesting the Electrostar to them.

 

9 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

On a personal level, the only DMUs that would interest me are just 3-car and 4-car anyway, but I'd be very reluctant to order an abbreviated unit without a certainty of getting the rest at the same time.

 

Me too, for DMUs and EMUs.

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

A rather unfair slight on the efforts of the GWS, IMHO. 

 

John

I would never doubt the modelling skills of our good friends at Didcot, but I wager there 1:1 skills are better than 1:76.

 

However should they start mass producing 1:1, I might be up for a full size County 

 

:-)

Edited February 10, 2021 by adb968008

[tomparryharry]

17 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I would never doubt the modelling skills of our good friends at Didcot, but I wager there 1:1 skills are better than 1:76.

 

However should they start mass producing 1:1, I might be up for a full size County 

 

:-)

 

Funny you should mention that. We did discuss a 1:1 8750 pannier....

[adb968008]

39 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

Funny you should mention that. We did discuss a 1:1 8750 pannier....

9700 would be nice, and offer some LUL potential.

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

9700 would be nice, and offer some LUL potential.

 

Yes. I was thinking the 9685 class. 

[57xx]

On 10/02/2021 at 22:16, adb968008 said:

I would never doubt the modelling skills of our good friends at Didcot, but I wager there 1:1 skills are better than 1:76.

 

I think their skills are pretty damn good, you just have to take a look at Castle's Little Didcot thread.

[RobMG]

Now we have two manufacturers doing Manors I imagine another two or maybe the same two companies will eventually announce a Saint, and also a Bulldog.

I have a Dapol mogul and I think it's great model.  

I will wait for their Manor.  

I bought a Hornby prairie, not so sure that I shouldn't have waited for the Dapol though. 

Of course there will always be little anomalies with models from any manufacturer, but in general I feel they are all much of a muchness.

 

I rather hope it's Dapol who are first with Saint.

 

Rob

 

PS I wonder how long it will be before three companies announce the same model !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hal Nail]

18 minutes ago, RobMG said:

PS I wonder how long it will be before three companies announce the same model !!!!!!!!!!!!

Three are doing a class 25.

 

I suspect there is just about enough demand for a popular diesel so it isn't totally comparable with similar duplication on a pre-nationalisation steam loco though.

[RobMG]

45 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Three are doing a class 25.

 

I suspect there is just about enough demand for a popular diesel so it isn't totally comparable with similar duplication on a pre-nationalisation steam loco though.

I didn't know that three were doing a class 25, but I do consider it to be unnecessary , especially in the case of the Manor. 

It's almost as if the other people are taking the pee..    It's not a practice I like, and I will certainly not buy their model on principal. 

Rob

[mdvle]

Just now, RobMG said:

I didn't know that three were doing a class 25, but I do consider it to be unnecessary , especially in the case of the Manor.

 

Sutton Locomotive Works very recently announced their 25, taking it too 3, but in that case it was somewhat obvious given their tooling for the 24 likely allowed for the 25.

 

With things like the Manor it is more likely a case that both were working on it and were too committed to the project when they became aware of the other, thus both being forced to continue.

[RobMG]

1 minute ago, mdvle said:

 

Sutton Locomotive Works very recently announced their 25, taking it too 3, but in that case it was somewhat obvious given their tooling for the 24 likely allowed for the 25.

 

With things like the Manor it is more likely a case that both were working on it and were too committed to the project when they became aware of the other, thus both being forced to continue.

Of course that is possible, but surely not in the case of the prairies. both were announced  fairly close to each other,  and we know about a similar thing happening a year or so back with I think a class 66 diesel.  

Re the prairies, the Dapol was announce first, then Hornby a few weeks later. I said I would have which ever came first. I was a bit dissappointed, but had the Hornby which needs some work to make it less toylike.  

The Dapol mogul is beautiful. and needs very little detail work. 

Rob

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, RobMG said:

I bought a Hornby prairie, not so sure that I shouldn't have waited for the Dapol though

Purely out of interest, I have no axes to grind here or brand loyalty issues, what is it about the Hornby 5101/61xx tha makes you say you're not so sure that you shouldn't have waited for the Dapol?  I'd fully intended to wait until both were available so I could compare, but in the event impatience and a cut price offer (from Bure Valley Models) made me take the bait, bright shiny new thing make it all better.  I have no regrets at all, a fine model. 

[tomparryharry]

This inter-Company  release rivalry has some history.   Was it a similar scenario with Bachmann & Hornby regarding the 08?   Whatever, we can be sure that both Accurascale & Dapol will  'bust a gut'  to ensure that their product is the best. 

 

One slight niggle remains, however.  In an effort to remain competitive  for either party, quality sometimes looses out to price, and I hope this isn't the case. 

 

Caveat Emptor!

 

Cheers,

Ian.

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

This inter-Company  release rivalry has some history.   Was it a similar scenario with Bachmann & Hornby regarding the 08?   Whatever, we can be sure that both Accurascale & Dapol will  'bust a gut'  to ensure that their product is the best.

 

Sadly experience demonstrates that this frequently is not the case - see Terrier or the shift from the Prairie to the Mogul and the resulting issues (admittedly Dapol seems to have indicated they have learned from that experience).

 

What tends to happen is a race to reach market first, because 80% of the market doesn't care about brand or accuracy, and they who arrive first get most of the market.

 

So we will need to wait and see what happens in this case.

[SteamingWales]

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

 

Sadly experience demonstrates that this frequently is not the case - see Terrier or the shift from the Prairie to the Mogul and the resulting issues (admittedly Dapol seems to have indicated they have learned from that experience).

 

What tends to happen is a race to reach market first, because 80% of the market doesn't care about brand or accuracy, and they who arrive first get most of the market.

 

So we will need to wait and see what happens in this case.

 

Not wanting to sound like a broken record (I'm sure this topic has been and will be discussed many more times) BUT I made my decision on which locos have been offered rather than price or who announced first etc.

[The Johnster]

If you mean which individual locomotives, not classes, are produced, I cannot say the same, which is not to say that I am criticising your approach.  It is easy enough to renumber a loco, and not difficult to repaint it unless there is lining involved, and even a hamfisted goon like me has managed a tolerable job of lining out a tank loco with transfers, though admittedly I nearly went ga ga in the process...

 

In an ideal world, which would be really boring, there would be no duplication of RTR products and all RTR products would to scale, well detailed and finished, and the best price they could be.  Duplications are inevitable in a situation where a very large number of prototypes are represented and we constantly wishlist for the same gaps in the provision.  There are two Manors currently being developed, both of which look to be very good models.  Price will be a factor, see my previous comment about large prairies on this thread, because if there is little to choose between the models on the appearance and performance front, we will usually go for the one that is first to market, but once that phase is over, we will go for the cheapest. 

 

There is an opportunity with duplicated models to present to market with different versions, in the case of Manors two different chimneys and the detail differences between the GW and BR built locos.  There are versions of the 43xx not yet produced by anyone, and if I were to be producing panniers for RTR, I'd be producing 57xx, 8750, and 64xx with topfeedless boilers, and 64xx as the later batch with squared off join between cab and bunker side sheet and no lip at the front edge of the cab roof, in order to produce clear blue water between my locos and the competitions.

 

We GW modellers are lucky in that few classes were standard throughout, and boilers were put into a pool and migrated between different locos at different times, but a Stanier 8F is pretty much a Stanier 8F, as is a WD 2-8-0.  We don't feel lucky when we are in a hole digging for evidence of what sort of boiler a particualr loco had at any given time.  As most of you know, my interest is in locos allox Tondu between 1948 and 58, and I have discovered photographic evidence of two panniers without topfeeds, one of which is not suitable for my period; 9660 was given a topfeedless boiler in about 1959 or 60, which it presumably carried until withdrawal.  I have cut the top feed and the associated plumbing off a Bachmann 57xx, as I wanted this variant, and numbered it as a punt as 5707.  This proved to be an error and I must renumber the loco to 5797, photographed without top feed at TDU in 1953.   I would have preferred to buy a loco without topfeed than mutilate the Bachmann 57xx, which is a lovely little thing, but there was no alternative.

 

Sorry, drifting a bit for the sake of an example.  Boiler migration happened on all railways and the variety of differences within a class is probably sometimes a factor in it not being produced, when it should be a factor in different versions of it being produced.  To take as an example the GW 1854/2721 classes (yes, more panniers), there is a wonderful biodiversity; saddle tanks to pannier tanks with Belpaire boilers, some Belpaires reverting to saddle tanks when parallel boilers from the pool were refitted, fishbelly or fluted coupling rods, half cabs, full cabs, straight backed bunkers, medium flared back bunkers, fully flared back bunkers, coal rails, no coal rails; it seems a bit much to claim that they were classes at all, more general descriptions of locos with similar leading dimensions, especially on a railway that differentiated between 64xx and 74xx over a matter of auto gear (but then didn't with the auto fitted 4575s).  I would definitely spring for a current standard 2721 in Belpaire/Pannier form, but the chances of it being identical to 2761, the relevant prototype, are minimal, so I'll have to do some work on it, probably renumbering and replacing the coupling rods.  Don't mind this.

 

The point is that the concept of a class of locomotives being to a standard of appearance is in many cases illusory, and there were variations within the so-called class over time, even in individual locomotives (some locos even changed class entirely; P2s, Great Bear, 43xx-Manor, Dukedogs made up from Dukes and Bulldogs.  If you rebuild 'Rememberance' as a 4-6-0 tender loco, have you changed it's class? 

 

I buy locomotives because they appeared in that form at Tondu in my time period, and am happy to renumber and repaint them to achieve the individual loco I want irrespective of which loco the manufacturer had decided to produce; same goes for coaches.  If I have to butcher them, I will, and do.

[mdvle]

4 hours ago, SteamingWales said:

Not wanting to sound like a broken record (I'm sure this topic has been and will be discussed many more times) BUT I made my decision on which locos have been offered rather than price or who announced first etc.

 

A valid method, one many follow.

 

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Price will be a factor, see my previous comment about large prairies on this thread, because if there is little to choose between the models on the appearance and performance front, we will usually go for the one that is first to market, but once that phase is over, we will go for the cheapest. 

 

80% or more of the market are likely currently unaware there is on Manor coming to market, let alone two (note: it can be fun/depressing to read the manufacturers Facebook pages and read the comments and see how many "fans" of the manufacturer are entirely unaware of what product has been announced - and if fans of the manufacturers on social media are frequently unaware, what about all of those people in the hobby who aren't online?)

 

So you are correct - for most people the first they will be aware of a new Manor is when they walk into their local retailer (whether the physical store or online), or in better times see it for sale at a show - which gives first arrival a significant advantage.

 

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

There is an opportunity with duplicated models to present to market with different versions, in the case of Manors two different chimneys and the detail differences between the GW and BR built locos.

 

At least in this case Accurascale is offering those variations - both chimneys, both boilers, etc. (I'm not sure what Dapol's plans are).

[RobMG]

On 27/02/2021 at 15:15, The Johnster said:

Purely out of interest, I have no axes to grind here or brand loyalty issues, what is it about the Hornby 5101/61xx tha makes you say you're not so sure that you shouldn't have waited for the Dapol?  I'd fully intended to wait until both were available so I could compare, but in the event impatience and a cut price offer (from Bure Valley Models) made me take the bait, bright shiny new thing make it all better.  I have no regrets at all, a fine model. 

I think it is all in my mind, but having bought the Dapol mogul, it is so beautifully finished and though not weathered it has an in service look about it. The Hornby prairie looks so new and bright , It makes me think of a toylike appearance.  

I've not weathered it yet, but I am sure it will look great.

The Hornby model is of course superb, and runs virtually silently and smooth.  As does the Dapol  mogul.

Just me being picky really.

Rob

[The Johnster]

Know what you mean about the finish on the Hornby 5101; I'm much more comfortable with mine now I've weathered it 'properly' to take the new off it.  For the Bachmann 94xx, I started by simply spraying the body with acrylic matt varnish as an undercoat base for the weathering, which in itself improved the look of the loco no end to my mind. 

 

I am pretty relaxed about destroying the resale value of RTR models I have no intention of ever selling (or why would I have bought them in the first place?) by weathering and otherwise altering and butchering (I call it superdetailing) them, so had I waited until the Dap 5101 appeared the decision would have been made on the basis of my perception of value for money, discounting the quality of finish or even the liveries offered and focussing on retail price, realism, detail, and, most important for me, slow running quality and smooth stops and starts on DC.  The Bure Valley offer for £104 6145 in BR black unlined unicycling lion livery was, I reckoned, as cheap as a new 5101 is ever going to be in this day and age, and I bit like the little fishy I am (I'm Pisces).  She's been renumbered as 4144, a Tondu loco from September 1958, just within my time frame!

 

Cue all singing all dancing Dapol 5101 for £103...

[Guest]

On 12/03/2021 at 14:56, The Johnster said:

I am pretty relaxed about destroying the resale value of RTR models I have no intention of ever selling (or why would I have bought them in the first place?) by weathering and otherwise altering and butchering (I call it superdetailing) them, .......

Agree.

 

I only have two locos that are pristine, Hornby Class 08, Kernow IOW O2, both sprayed Gloss, as to look like they've just recently come out of workshop, but wheels, brakes rods lightly weathered as if a couple of weeks use, and on O2 smoke box finished in matt.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Guest
to make it clearer

[Henry 84F]

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/OO-Gauge-78xx-Manor-Locomotive-Decorated-Samples-Under-Review

 

Decorated samples out. Very interesting update and good to see the manufacturer transparent about the production process and what they would like to improve. Reasonable RRP too!

[BenL]

Looking good from a quick glance, although on 7814, the 'G W R' branding should be offset to the rear of the tender so that the 'W' is not sitting on the vertical line of rivets (unless 7814 is ultimately destined to be produced with a flush sided tender, in which case the 'G W R' should indeed be central to the tender side as shown in the sample).

[Les1952]

13 hours ago, BenL said:

Looking good from a quick glance, although on 7814, the 'G W R' branding should be offset to the rear of the tender so that the 'W' is not sitting on the vertical line of rivets (unless 7814 is ultimately destined to be produced with a flush sided tender, in which case the 'G W R' should indeed be central to the tender side as shown in the sample).

 

I do hope you gave them that feedback via their website- that way the corrections are more likely to happen.

 

Les