Pre-Nationalisation diesel 0-6-0 shunters

[montyburns56]

While searching on Flickr I came across this rather unique looking shunter which I believe was called the Class D3/12 and was built by the Southern Railway. I've always been fascinated by the godfathers of the Class 08 and just thought that it would be nice to a create list of all of them.

 

http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/maunsell-350_01.html

 

 

 

[Nearholmer]

It’s quite a big subject, even if you confine yourself to them big four’ and ignore ‘industrials’.

 

The Wikipedia entries for the LMS locos are pretty good, so probably best to start there.

 

Bookwise, this is a good non-technical starting place for the big four ones.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Wickham Green]

14 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

While searching on Flickr I came across this rather unique looking shunter which I believe was called the Class D3/12 and was built by the Southern Railway. I've always been fascinated by the godfathers of the Class 08 and just thought that it would be nice to a create list of all of them.

 

http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/maunsell-350_01.html

 

 

 

Certainly not unique - there were three of it ! ..... what's probably unique is the design of the rear windows to allow a good view of the ( human ) shunter in action.

 

Odd that No.2 seems to have gone for scrap in the company of a Charlie ( not surprising ) and a Black Five !

 

Must be time Judith Edge ran out of other ideas and got round to a kit of this design !!?!

[PenrithBeacon]

52 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

...

 

Odd that No.2 seems to have gone for scrap in the company of a Charlie ( not surprising ) and a Black Five !

 

...

I think that's the scrap line at Feltham, but I might be wrong. The Black 5 could have been in transit to a scrappy

[Wickham Green]

I was thinking Feltham too ........ judging by the similar rust on the Five's piston rod and wheels it's a) been there a while and b) could have arrived under its own steam.

[Michael Edge]

3 hours ago, Wickham Green said:

Certainly not unique - there were three of it ! ..... what's probably unique is the design of the rear windows to allow a good view of the ( human ) shunter in action.

 

Odd that No.2 seems to have gone for scrap in the company of a Charlie ( not surprising ) and a Black Five !

 

Must be time Judith Edge ran out of other ideas and got round to a kit of this design !!?!

Most of the drawings have been done, might even be the next test etch. I don't think we'll ever run out of ideas though.

[montyburns56]

GWR./BR. English Electric "Class D3/10" 0-6-0 diesel shunter No. 15100.

 

 

LNER Class DES1, BR Class DEJ1, then DE3/9 and D3/10

 

 

 

DES1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by montyburns56

[russ p]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that the LNER ones were classed as J45 when new

[cheesysmith]

I dont think so, as the early diesel notation system (D13/1) etc was from the LNER anyway. It was just expanded to include all the other diesels built at nationalisation.

[Nearholmer]

The LNER encyclopedia website says:

 

Four locomotives (Nos. 8000-3) were built in 1944 and 1945, and were originally classified as J45. They were then reclassified as DES1 (Diesel Electric Shunting 1) in September 1945.

 

Did the Dnn/n system come from the LNER? I'd always assumed (never wise) that it was a BR thing, so possibly LMS-inspired like much else in motive power terms, although it is quite similar to the early SNCF system for classifying diesel locos, which I find equally challenging to memorise!

[PenrithBeacon]

I believe it did

[Nearholmer]

The reason that I'm sceptical, is that in LNER classification, a 'D' was a 4-4-0 steam locomotive, with the nn/n signifying individual class and sub-variant, whereas:

 

"Diesel and electric locomotives were given three-part classifications, commencing with either 'DE' for Diesel (electric transmission), 'DM' for Diesel (mechanical transmission) or 'E' for Electric, then 'B' for Banking, 'E' for Express, 'M' for Mixed Traffic or 'S' for Shunter, and finally a number issued to different types consecutively from 1 ."

 

Maybe it was the general principle of using Ann/n that transferred from LNER to BR.

 

The first BR classification scheme used (to me at least) baffling DYnn/n, DJnn/n and DEnn/n descriptors for diesel shunters.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Nearholmer

[montyburns56]

SR/English Electric R.E.L. Maunsell designed diesel electric 350hp 0-6-0 shunter No.15202

 

 

 

Class 12 Bulleid Shunters

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[newbryford]

"A pictorial reference of the diesel shunter"by OPC

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pictorial-Record-Diesel-Shunter-Marsden/dp/0860931080

 

and the Ian Allan Fleet Survey No7

https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Rail-Fleet-Survey-Shunters/dp/0711014493

are good references.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[keefer]

The Fleet Survey series may seem to be more 'lightweight' books but aside from having the necessary material (original classifications, numbering, technical specs etc.), are also invaluable for providing a context to the development of the subjects i.e. first examples, how they developed, why certain classes were the way they were etc.

I had to lose a lot of railway stuff when I moved house but my set of Fleet Surveys was going to be kept - still raging they went missing!

[Nearholmer]

48 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

Maunsell designed

I always wonder about design attribution with locos that are so obviously built to a generic design thrashed out between a railway (LMS) and its suppliers, and then procured and/or part-built-in-house by another railway.

 

Definitely a camel.

[montyburns56]

On 13/03/2020 at 20:12, Nearholmer said:

I always wonder about design attribution with locos that are so obviously built to a generic design thrashed out between a railway (LMS) and its suppliers, and then procured and/or part-built-in-house by another railway.

 

Definitely a camel.

 

I wonder if in this case he came up with unique curvy cab design?

[Nearholmer]

The cab-back is definitely an SR thing, and i'm surprised it didn't catch on, especially the refinement that put windows to allow the shunter to be seen. There were a few other minor Southernifications in it too. So yes, somebody in Maunsell's team designed some small parts.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Nearholmer

[PenrithBeacon]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://booklaw.co.uk/shop/index.php%3Fid_product%3D2474%26controller%3Dproduct%26id_lang%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwjHxtW1-ZroAhXKX8AKHbpOCw4QFjABegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw3XFNU2B4ldiAWy3L-DD-5-

 

This book gives all the info you might need on LMS diesel shunters.

[Steamport Southport]

On 06/03/2020 at 10:26, PenrithBeacon said:

I think that's the scrap line at Feltham, but I might be wrong. The Black 5 could have been in transit to a scrappy

 

That's Cashmore's in Newport. 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[25901]

One of the two LMS ones that still survive

[montyburns56]

I know this a BR shunter but i wasn't even aware of it until a few days ago, but I'm curious as to how an oddball shunter has ended up being preserved especially as only two of them were ever made. Does anyone know the story behind its preservation? 

 

 

 

 

[keefer]

I always thought the cab end just had a sort of 'bunker' shape to it, but there's a centre section as well

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_D0226#/media/File%3AD0226.jpg

 

The wiki entry just says the two locos were trialled at Stratford, that D0227 was scapped and D0226 preserved.

I never realised that 226 was diesel-electric and 227 diesel-hydraulic.

Like monty says, odd that one should last long enough to be preserved esp. since they were prototypes/test beds.

I take it they became Stratford's works shunters? They were obviously useful enough to last as long as they did.

Edited March 15, 2020 by keefer
Corrected info

[russ p]

Strictly speaking they are trip locos.

One had an hydraulic transmission  (227) and the other a single traction motor I believe driving a carden shaft to a final drive on an axle

They were never BR property so 226 was probably bought off EE direct 

[The Johnster]

What the Americans would call a road switcher as opposed to a yard switcher; they could run at up to 35mph which was useful when it came to keeping out of the way of other traffic.  BR used 08s for trip work in general, but they were never really suitable for it.