Belgian MPD

[Neils WRX]

Belgian Depot Layout - From 1980's Onward

 

I’ve been thinking about this layout for years and doodled loads of different plans.

 

My interest in Belgian Railways goes back to the early 1990s when I made my first trip across from Dover to Oostende on the ferry in the days before the Channel Tunnel opened, from my very first visit I was hooked on SNCB / NMBS.

 

I was particularly taken with the sheer amount of locomotive hauled passenger trains worked by both electric and diesels. The majority of diesels were fitted with steam heat boilers, all operating without sectorisation.

 

On my trips travelling around I also used to try and visit models shops and see what I could find (and afford). This was of course in the days before the internet and Ebay, and purchasing specific models became a real challenge and that was all part of the fun of it.

 

In time these purchases led to the building of a Belgian / German Border layout in my parents loft. 

 

I subsequently ended up working for Eurostar and had regular meetings abroad, which also were used for visiting model shops to further increase my stock list.

 

Then in the early 2000’s SNCB started replacing their diesel hauled trains with units and I lost interest in the Belgian haulage scene. I also moved jobs to another Train Operator.

 

Now fast forward 15+ years and a chance purchase of a Roco class 52 Nohab diesel (with rebuilt cabs) rekindled my interest in Belgian Railways.

 

Currently I have my Czech Layout, see thread ???? but I’ve always fancied building a Belgian Motive Power Depot to display, exhibit and operate my models on.

 

My memories of Belgian Depots are of very large sheds ranging from 6 to 20+ roads, although in some cases only a small number of locomotives present. The smaller more traditional depots closed in the mid/late 1980’s. Once these sheds were demolished locomotives were often stabled in carriage sidings, yards or in and around stations.

 

At one point I did consider building a model of the headshunt for a carriage sidings, so most of the track and stock would actually be off stage. So that all you would see, would be a train arrive with a loco and a couple of coaches , the loco would then be detached and stabled.

 

I also thought about building a wagon works / repair depot, but discounted this as it wasn’t really what I wanted.

 

However I ditched these ideas and went for a more conventional depot layout. The premise for this layout is that a few small depots remained and this is one of them. The depot provides traction for a few local passenger diagrams and freight services, as well as stabling and fuelling visiting locomotives from other depots.

 

Location wise the depot is in the South East of the country so this explains the occasional Luxembourg (CFL) locomotive popping in for fuel.

 

The time period is set from the mid to late 1980’s through to the early 2000’s, so class 59’s and 60’s are allowed to appear. Nohabs can be seen in both original condition and with rebuilt cabs. However one of my pet hates is seeing locos sat side by side that would never have happened in real life, such as a Prototype class 60 and an Infabel class 62, or a non preserved class 59 and a class 77.

 

I have a few criteria for the layout, it must be portable and of exhibition standard. It must fit in the back of our Ford Focus Estate. 

 

Control will be DCC (with sound) using my existing Roco Z21 with Wi-fi controller. Point control will be digital, as opposed to analog on my current Czech layout. 

 

It must also be able to be operated by one person from either the front or behind. The layout must have integrated lighting again another first for me (rather than a few spotlights) so the layout will be “boxed in”.

 

One of the main constraints / issues of my current layout is it needs a van to move it and at least two people to operate and move it. It’s only ever had one outing, a long time ago when it was half built and at the time I turned down a couple of subsequent invites as I was making very slow progress with it. The layout is still portable so could be exhibited again although now in its Czech guise.

 

I do have a few of decisions to make though. The current layout uses Peco Code 100 track and medium radius points but I am tempted to go with Peco Finescale code 75 track. However the code 100 track when painted and weathered does look acceptable to my eyes but I am still tempted to try finescale for the first time.

 

Also the current layout uses insulfrog points, where as if I go finescale then I need to deal with frog juicers etc, including potentially a double slip and 3 way point. The current layout runs well on insulfrog points mainly because of the number of additional power feeds added.

 

All of my Belgian shunters all run very well including the little class 91 0-4-0 as most have stay alive’s fitted.

 

I’m interested in people’s thoughts on the train and track plan options.

 

Here are a few possible track plans, both use a 4ft by 2ft scenic board and an 18 inch fiddle yard, which will fit in my existing railway room at home. However 18 inches isn’t long enough to run a pair of loco’s in multiple of run the 2 car Mehano class 41 DMU so wondering about making it bigger which means operating it at home more difficult.

 

I would ideally like a single scenic board so the only join is hidden to the fiddle yard.

 

In all plans the scenic break is going to be a large bridge.

 

 

 

 

 

As with all my plans and ideas they tend to grow!!!

 

I have also been looking at a 6ft x 2ft option, with a fiddle yard attached on the right hand end when running outside the railway room.

 

The larger plan gives a lot more scope for running round trains etc and being more interesting to operate.

 

The lines at the back would be at a higher level and electrified, so I could run my numerous sparkies!!!

 

The final plan is without the high level lines so allows a bit more scenic work.

 

 

What do people think?

Neil

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Neils WRX

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Neil,

I like the idea in general! I don't really know anything at all about Belgian depot layouts so can't help on that score but I guess they would generally follow the typical layout for pretty much all depots that deal with diesel traction, all around the world? I have flashed by a couple of such depots but I can't find my Belgian pics anywhere.

I kind of like the look of the centre of the 4 x 2 plans though as I'm a sucker for double slips and the like. The 6 x 2 plans look a little 'busy' for my taste, sorry!

I don't know if you will be running older models from your previous interest but if so, maybe code 100 would allow unrestricted running due to larger flanges in use then?

Hope this helps,

John.

[Brian Hawkins]

Hello Neil,

Very much looking forward to this layout progressing, I visited Belgium for the first time in I think 1980 and enjoyed it very much, as I type this, I have a Roco sound fitted  Rebuilt Nohab ( 5403 ) running around my layout !

[EddieB]

Well, I like the sound of this project and it brings back memories of visiting many of the larger depots in that time period.  I remember first coming across Belgian depot codes and their association with exotic-sounding places - Kinkempois, Ronet, Merelbeke, Monceau, Stockem, Schaerbeek.

 

Of course, the aim of seeing as many locomotives as possible meant that the smaller depots that still existed were overlooked - by the time I visited places such as Ath and Bertrix, I think their infrastructure had been removed.

 

With regard to the plan, I'd suggest simplicity is the key.  The second instance (with a three-way point and a double slip) looks fairly uncluttered and reminds me of a much reduced version of Antwerpen Dam (FNDM, affectionately), which also had a road bridge in a similar position.

 

[TT-Pete]

Hi Neil,

 

A very good subject, you could be describing Stockem. I shall watch developments with interest. :^)

 

It sounds like that at the same time you were with Eurostar I was with Raileurope at Leake Street (from just after the BR International merger up to the time of the move to Kings Hill). I too would occasionally travel abroad to meetings at the SNCF mothership in Paris where they would find it tres drole that thanks to my 4 years spent in Brussels, here was an Englishman speaking French with a Belgian accent. (Which I would then ham up for effect allei une fois, nondijus. "Septante!? Alors c'est quoi, Septante?" "Ben, c'est Nonante mois vingt, eh?")

 

I agree with John and EddieB, the middle of the top two designs with the 3-way and double slip would be a visually interesting yard throat setup. Stretching it out an additional 2ft to your max length would also give a bit more room between the 3-way and the overbridge. I also really like the idea of the electrified elevated section in the background. I've never been a fan of running electric locos without the knitting, it never looks right (that doesn't stop me buying the blasted things though). Would you have it as part of the depot or as a separate feature?

 

If you are not already aware of it, the Traintamarre site has quite a comprehensive list of the producers of specifically Belgian/SNCB buildings, fittings and layout furniture etc. that may be of use:

 

https://traintamarre.tassignon.be/inventaire_H0/inventaire_H0_new1.php?type=DEC

 

Cheers, Peter.

 

[Neils WRX]

Thanks for all the comments so far, a lot of food for thought.

 

The flange depth issue was something, I’d never considered but looking at my Marklin 2 Rail conversions and also my Trix 59’s they do have deeper flanges than the Roco models.

 

Might stick with code 100 rail but alter the sleeper spacing to represent depot track.

 

Might also think about going to a 5 foot board but not sure if this will be to unwieldy to handle single handed.
 

Will have another play with the AnyRail software, and refine the double slip plan.

 

Thanks

 

Neil

[Neils WRX]

I’ve pushed the length out an extra foot. So it’s now 5 by 2 which is the same size as my current Czech fiddle yard, so I might try a trial loading it in the car.

 

Here’s the revised plan:

This actually gives the feel of a much larger shed. I agree it does have a “Mini Antwerp Dam” feel about it.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil

[Neils WRX]

I’ve carried on playing about with the plan and added another point to give a little more operational flexibility / interest.

 

I’ve also tried a trial of the 5ft x 2ft Czech fiddle yard in the car and apart from banging myself just below the knee the board will fit (just). So that means I can proceed with a 5x2 layout plus fiddle yard.

 

I think I’m going to use a cassette bassed fiddle yard. The longest thing I have is a class 41 2 car DMU which is just under 2 feet in length and semi permanently coupled. My class 44 DMU’s are about 11 inches each. So a 2 foot fiddle yard should be just enough.

 

Next stage I think will be so lay the plan out full size and check everything fits.

 

I did do one job last night that’s worth noting, I converted a Roco class 62 to DCC as a trial. As it works it means I have another 5 to do before moving on to the class 20’s.....

 

This was my first DCC conversion where I have hardwired the decoder, it was actually quite straightforward. I will neaten the wires up inside once I can find the insulation tape.
 

Thanks,

 

Neil

[Neils WRX]

I think I’ve pretty much locked the plan down now, had another play with AnyRail and then printed out some point templates and moved models around on our 4x2 coffee table, to check everything fits. The missing foot from the coffee table is just plain track in front of the shed building.

 

 

 

I have added another siding between the shed and the electrified headshunt. This siding would primarily be for demic locos.

 

Another new addition is another road under the bridge which will enable fuel tankers to be run round and then pushed next to the fuel storage tanks for off loading.

 

I’m also including an additional 1 foot fiddle yard behind the shed frontage so things can go into the building and disappear!! Just need to think about working shed doors next.

 

Going to order the baseboards today.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil

[Neils WRX]

Appears I made a schoolboy error in the plan, Belgian Railways don’t use 3 way points as a norm and I was told there is only one in the country.

 

This revelation led to a further change of the plan.

 

 

I borrowed some flip chart paper and tried a few things out for size.

The low relief shed will have 6 roads.

 

The longest two roads will accommodate 3 6 axle diesels each.

 

The shorter roads will take 2x6 axle diesels

 

 

At the other end of the layout the bridge will be at an angle. The far two roads will be carriage sidings.

 

Hope that gives a flavour of what I’m trying to achieve.

 

I’m now happy that the plan will give the operational interest and viewing interest I’m looking for.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil

[Neil]

Belgium, what an excellent choice. Can I recommend some excellent flickr sites.

 

First up, Geert Nauwelaerts with trams, trains and boats from the sixties onwards.

 

Secondly, Peter Van Gestel has two sites, general stuff and rolling stock.

 

I've found them invaluable when planning and constructing my own slice of Belgium.

[Henk van der Kolk]

Hi Neal,

Always nice to see those big Belgian Diesels, I remember them well. But, when you really are planning a kind of Antwerpen Dam I hope you know most of your loco’s didn’t got there. The class 52/53/54 and the green and blue class 55 were “Ardennen” loco’s. The class 55 most of the time on the line 42 from “Liege” to “Luxembourg”. And the class 52/53/54 only on the “Athus - Meuse” line. I read you got an class 44 motorwagon too, you could find those on “Athus - Meuse” too. Maybe you can change it in a kind of Bertrix, there were those big guys overnight. I remember I was there just on a sunday afternoon and 4 big engines were on without any planning until monday. All gone but still in my head! 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Henk Visscher
Changed Antwerpen into Liege!

[Neils WRX]

On 17/03/2020 at 14:20, Henk Visscher said:

Hi Neal,

Always nice to see those big Belgian Diesels, I remember them well. But, when you really are planning a kind of Antwerpen Dam I hope you know most of your loco’s didn’t got there. The class 52/53/54 and the green and blue class 55 were “Ardennen” loco’s. The class 55 most of the time on the line 42 from “Liege” to “Luxembourg”. And the class 52/53/54 only on the “Athus - Meuse” line. I read you got an class 44 motorwagon too, you could find those on “Athus - Meuse” too. Maybe you can change it in a kind of Bertrix, there were those big guys overnight. I remember I was there just on a sunday afternoon and 4 big engines were on without any planning until monday. All gone but still in my head! 

 

Henk,

 

Thanks for the comments, ironically I didn’t plan on building Antwerpen Dam, the layout was really designed to be in the south of country, but the overbridge made it look a bit like Antwerpen Dam.

 

I as well as the Nohab’s and 55’s I do have a number of 51’s, 59’s and of course 62’s so could represent most Belgian sheds!!!

 

Please keep following this thread.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil

 

 

[Henk van der Kolk]

I will follow your thread, Neil. No worries! I was a big fan of the real thing and I am a railway modeller. Real things like two Class 51 with a heavy stealtrain on the Moresnet viaduct of line 24. So, bring it on. Anwerpen Dam or wherever you want to plan it. 

[Neils WRX]

As the Peco track had arrived I thought I’d lay the layout out on my virtual board and check everything fits as I planned above.

This is the shed end with the first 6 roads going through into the mini fiddle yard behind. The first road will be next to a fuel large tank, and will be used for fuel offloading.

 

Taken from behind the shed, the rear road is head shunt for the carriage sidings, which will fit a shunter and a single coach or 2 coaches depending on which road the coaches are being transferred onto.

 

The longest train I have is the Mehano AR41 DMU, which just fits in the carriage siding headshunt.

 

One of my classic AR44 DMU’s

 

Hopefully my boards will arrive soon :-)

 

While I’m waiting for the baseboards to arrive I have ordered a number of ESU chips to upgrade most of my remaining Roco class 62’s and 20’s to DCC.

Stay safe everyone. 

Thanks,

 

Neil

[Neils WRX]

A box of ESU decoders arrived today :-)

 

Another Roco SNCB 62 was converted this evening, here is a before and after. 
 

 

It was quite straightforward to fit a Lokpilot 5 to it, I just copied the previous wiring.

 

Here’s the finished model with working lights.

 

 

I happened to be sorting through some wagons yesterday and it appears I have been victim of the Klein Modellbahn “Zinc Pest” and several wagons have warped floors and sides.

 

 

 

The solution seems to be to push the floors out, and add a new floor and load to reduce the amount of distortion.

 

Stay safe everyone.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil

 

[Neils WRX]

Despite being sat next to my current Czech Layout very little physical modelling has taken place. What I have been doing is updating software on DCC chips (nearly 100 of them) and I have reflashed the sound files on a few locomotives.

One significant improvement is a SNCB class 51 from Mehano which now has a new sound file from Dirk which is excellent. Here is a short video of start up and pull away. 

 

 

This is of course on my current Czech layout as I’m still waiting for my baseboards.

 

I will now be fitting sound to my other 2 Mehano class 51’s.

 

I have also converted a few more locos to DCC, another couple of Roco SNCB class 62’s,

 

Here are a couple of 62s now with hard wired Lokpilot 5 DCC chips.

 

 

 

Next will be a Roco SNCB class 20 which looks a bit complicated, if I want the head and tail lights to work.

 

 

Will have a think about this one.

 

Stay safe everyone 

 

Thanks 

 

Neil

[Neils WRX]

I’ve also discovered (well was told about) ESU Autotune which is CV54.

 

Here is a quick before and after.

 

As you can see a significant improvement!!

 

Stay safe everyone.

 

Neil

 

[Neils WRX]

Following on from the last update I’ve hard wired a Lokpilot v5 chip into a older Roco SNCB class 20 Electric.

 

Having converted several class 62’s, which were quite straightforward the 20 had separate head and tail lights, as well as more bits and pieces which needed to be removed.

 

I did put a post on a Belgian model railway forum about converting it asking for reassurance and a how to do it, one person described it as being as “simple as cabbage” and sent me a couple of pictures....

 

Here is the completed conversion.

 

 

And on the Czech layout with lights on.

 

 

The model runs well the only issue I have is that it makes a kind of static noise at very slow speed for some reason. Here is a quick clip. Any ideas?

 

 

As I said the model runs well, I’ve had it on the rolling road etc.

I’m now out of DCC chips, and have a couple more 62’s and another 20 still to do. Next job will be another sound fitted 62 when I order the chips.

 

Hopefully I might actually get the baseboards so some proper layout building can commence.

 

Stay safe everyone.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil

[Neils WRX]

As I’m still awaiting baseboards my modelling time has been filled with odd jobs. Starting with another SNCB class 62 (by Roco) has being fitted with sound, this uses the downloadable ESU file and a Loksound v5 chip.

 

This is a simple addition thanks to the 8 pin dcc socket that the later Roco 62’s were fitted with. The speaker is mounted internally, in an ideal world a larger speaker would be fitted between the bogies but there isn’t space for it unless I take the light bars out and fit LED’s, but that’s a job for another day.

 

I have used the small speaker that came with the decoder and I feel it actually gives a better sound than the previous setup I have used for Roco 62’s which are all fitted with Loksound V4’s.

 

Here’s a quick video of start up and pull away.

 

 

I also purchased a second chip which went in another class 51 but this didn’t go well, I removed the existing Lokpilot chip and fitted the Loksound chip. The sound project was uploaded and the locomotive placed on the track. 

 

All was fine initially, although the sound was a bit quiet and it moved about 20cm and stopped as did the sound and the headlights went out.

 

Tried turning it on and off but nothing. Removed the chip and plugged it into the ESU decoder tester, and couldn’t read the chip, so couldn’t reset it. 

 

I tried a different chip in the 51 and that was fine, so assume it’s the chip that’s failed.

 

Contacted the company I purchased it from and it’s been sent back for replacement.

 

This has only been the second chip I’ve ever had fail.

 

Having taken the Lokpilot chip out of 6218 it’s been hard wired into 6332. I now only have one more 62 to do now :-)

 

 

Stay safe everyone 

 

Neil

[Devonbelle]

Smashing models Neil and I like your backdrop layout. 

 

If memory serves me correct when my wife and I went to Belgium in 1998, 62 class diesels were working teatime commuter trains around Gent and had steam heating, hauling M2 coaches in maroon? Belgium railways are fascinating. Keep up the good work. Paul 

[Neils WRX]

On 18/05/2020 at 07:07, Devonbelle said:

Smashing models Neil and I like your backdrop layout. 

 

If memory serves me correct when my wife and I went to Belgium in 1998, 62 class diesels were working teatime commuter trains around Gent and had steam heating, hauling M2 coaches in maroon? Belgium railways are fascinating. Keep up the good work. Paul 

 

Thanks for the positive comments.

 

62's did last on passenger until the early 2000's when they were replaced by either class 41 DMU's or electrification. They used steam heat until the end. A good number remain in service with Infrabel to work engineers trains and they are still being put through works and getting heavy overhauls.

 

The layout will be able to be operated in the 1980's, 1990's and 2000's, and the rolling stock amended to suit. I even have a spreadsheet to show what loco's can work during each time period.

 

Modelling wise I have received a replacement chip for the one that failed in 5183. The new installation works fine although I might change the speaker to get a bit more base.

 

Stay safe everyone.

 

Neil

 

[Neils WRX]

Doh, forgot to upload the video of the 51.

 

 

Stay safe everyone,

 

Neil

[Neils WRX]

Still no actual layout building to report as I’m still awaiting my baseboards so I have been continuing with fitting DCC chips to all my older models. 

 

I had hoped this report would announce the completion of the Roco SNCB class 62’s however things did not quite go to plan. I wired in a spare Lokpilot v4 (I’m going to do a “how to”), but the loco ran very poorly mainly as it hasn’t been used for circa 20 years. Having oiled things and reassembled it, I managed to break one of the bogie sideframe clips. I tried superglue but this couldn’t make a strong enough bond, as it snapped every time I tried to put the bogie back together again.

So I’m trying to order a replacement plus spare (incase I break another one), Roco show them in stock so trying to order it via a U.K. shop.

 

One arrival of note is a Belgian class 76, these locomotives were former Dutch Railways class 2200 diesels. 25 of them were purchased in the 1990’s and survived in service until 2003. Initially they were used for LGV Construction trains, but later found their way on to other engineers trains, so one could be justified coming onto the shed for fuel. Most remained in their former Netherlands Railways Livery of grey and yellow, although one was repainted in green and yellow and one retained its Dutch Brown livery. Ironically it’s easier to obtain the more colourful liveried loco’s than the “boring” Grey Yellow ones. Both Piko and Roco produce versions, having previously owned a Roco one I do feel the Piko one is a more detailed model.

 

 

Next issue is putting a sound chip in it. Piko do a sound fitted Dutch Version, but not a Belgian one that I could see. The Piko chip is a ESU one but it doesn’t appear as a downloadable file on the ESU website. I have dropped Piko an email asking if they will send me a sound file for me to upload, but as yet I’ve not had a response.

 

Other options are to source a Piko chip from Europe with the sound preloaded.

 

Hopefully I might get some layout construction done at some point.

 

Stay safe everyone.

 

Neil

[Neils WRX]

Another month goes by and still I don’t have much to show. Baseboards are expected shortly but even if I had, had them, I’ve been way to busy with work following the never ending changes to plans as everyone reacts to Covid-19.

 

Anyway I have recently purchased a couple of paint marker pens, and been using them to pick out details. One such job is to paint the edges of the buffers of my CFL (Luxembourg Railways) class 1600 by Roco. I also did one of my Marklin class 1800 as well. I can justify the Luxembourg locomotives coming onto the Depot for fuel and stabling as they used to regularly do this back in the 1990’s. As always the picture is on my Czech layout.

 

 

I’ve also been sticking the detailing bits on locos and wagons so I’ve been keeping myself busy while on phone conferences (where I don’t have my camera on).

 

Hopefully next update might contain some woodwork....

 

Stay safe everyone,

 

Neil