Cobalt Omega for complete beginners

[D9012]

Hi - I’ve got some Omega motors on order, never had to wire one before.     What on earth is their wiring instructions like!   Is anyone out there able to provide a plain English description or plan for wiring?   Please , I beg you!!!     I hope to operate by stud and probe.   Will that work?     How will terminal 3 light a LED if I want one led for left and another for right?   I think I understand terminals 4,5,6 , so what’s 7,8,9 for?
Not born with the knowledge and I only have one life to try and decipher it.......

[Sol]

Link to the manual

https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/owners-manual-cobalt-classic-omega-point-motors/

 

They are NOT stud & probe to operate

 

terminals 4,5 & 6 are one SPDT switch as is 7, 8 & 9 another

[Dominion]

If am assuming you want to use them in an analogue way and not DCC ?  The power to the drive motor is normally left on, so not stud and probe as Sol says. However you don't have to leave the power on. I am using Peco passing contact lever switches for mine. However it only works if you hold the switch in the contact area for the entire duration of the turnout throw. I am running mine on about 6v DC and it take about 5 seconds to complete the throw. A little higher voltage would lead to slightly shorter time.  You could do that with stud and probe but may not be the most convenient.

 

If you are using them in digital mode, you can use momentary switches or stud and probe to trigger the whole operation as there are inputs into the DCC controllers specifically for that.  However, that is a lot of clever electronics just to allow momentary operation.

 

I think most people use some form of on-off-on switch.  Either 2 pole DPDT wired to reverse the outputs or single pole but with dual polarity power feeds.

 

For LEDs there are many interesting wiring diagrams on the DCC Concepts websites if you fish around.

 

I use 456 to switch track power to the frogs and 789 are just the same, so you can use them for isolating sections or feeding power on and off to other switches for interlocking, or for signals, or for anything else you want a switch for. You could also use them for the LEDs but I think the website shows ways to power the LEDs from the previously used switch too if you have another use for 789

Edited March 6, 2020 by Dominion
Typo

[jpendle]

First of all these motors are not designed to be used with stud and probe, for that you would need solenoid motors, Peco, Seep, or similar.

 

For these point motors you need a 12V DC regulated power supply. This needs to be connected to pins 1 & 2 BUT you need to be able to reverse the polarity of the supply to get the motor to operate the point. 

In other words if you connect positive from your power supply to pin 1 and negative to pin 2 then the motor will move in one direction, if you then connect negative to pin 1 and positive to pin 2 then the motor will move in the opposite direction.

There is never any need to disconnect power from these motors as they are designed to 'stall' at the end of their travel and the power can be left on safely.

So to do this most people use a double pole double throw switch (DPDT). You  need to wire pins 1 & 2 of the motor to the common pins of the switch. You then need to wire positive and negative outputs of your DC supply to one set of contacts on the switch, you will then need to 'cross wire' from these contacts to the other set of contacts on the switch (there is a simple diagram showing this in the Cobalt manual, just below the DC wiring instructions. Then depending on how the switch is set the point motor will move in one direction or the other. This is not that hard once you have the hang of it, but it is nothing like wiring a solenoid motor.

 

BTW other slow action motors, such as Tortoises need to be wired in exactly the same way.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[newbryford]

 

3 hours ago, D9012 said:

Hi - I’ve got some Omega motors on order, never had to wire one before.     What on earth is their wiring instructions like!   Is anyone out there able to provide a plain English description or plan for wiring?   Please , I beg you!!!     I hope to operate by stud and probe.   Will that work?     How will terminal 3 light a LED if I want one led for left and another for right?   I think I understand terminals 4,5,6 , so what’s 7,8,9 for?
Not born with the knowledge and I only have one life to try and decipher it.......

 

Have you tried to contact DCC Concepts directly - they are usually most helpful.

 

As Sol says, 7/8/9 is a repeat of 4/5/6.

 

LED wiring can be as easy as connecting a pair in "reverse parallel" in one of the motor feeds.

 

 

i.e. feed the motor from regulated supply (the recommendation is not to use the auxiliary "12v" supply on the side of a controller as these are often unregulated and will quite happily measure 16v or more,,,,,)

Through a DPDT reversing switch as described by JPendle above.

 

In one of the motor feed wires, connect two LEDS wired opposite to each other.

 

When the motor moves one way, one LED will glow dim and then bright when the motor stalls.

flick the switch over and the opposite LED will light up as the motor moves.

 

Power can be retained to the motor at all times as it draws current - about 20mA.

 

Note: For users of Analog IP motors, this will not work, as the motor "goes to sleep" after a few seconds - see the Analog Ip wiring diagrams for a suitable solution - the same solution will actually work with an Omega motor.

[Brian]

Hi

 

This may help you?   Link to Slow Motion motor wiring

[AndyID]

On 06/03/2020 at 12:45, D9012 said:

Hi - I’ve got some Omega motors on order, never had to wire one before.     What on earth is their wiring instructions like!   Is anyone out there able to provide a plain English description or plan for wiring?   Please , I beg you!!!     I hope to operate by stud and probe.   Will that work?     How will terminal 3 light a LED if I want one led for left and another for right?   I think I understand terminals 4,5,6 , so what’s 7,8,9 for?
Not born with the knowledge and I only have one life to try and decipher it.......

 

Yes, the instructions try to make it easy but they are not very clear. As others have said, stud and probe won't work.

 

I think this might be what you are looking for.

[John ks]

Here is the alternate way using a SPDT switch & a duel power supply.

An alternate LED connection is shown, its disadvantage is that shows the position of the switch which is OK if the point changes 

If the point motor fails to change then the indication is wrong.

The way to be sure the indication is correct is to use one of the CO switches in the point motor to control the LEDs.

 

 

I thought I could get stud & probe to work (you would have to hold the probe on the stud until the point changed for the first idea)

The first idea looked good until I realised it could only control 1 point & the voltage across the two studs was 24V, enough to give a tickle if you leaned across them or a spark if shorted with a bit of metal

The second idea requires a latching relay & more wiring than mine or AndyID's drawings & is  not worth the extra expense & wiring IMHO

 

John

 

[Junctionmad]

Just be aware the standard Omega has no digital mode , as mentioned by a previous poster 

 

there is not much point powering them from anything above about 7-8 V DC as the voltage is internally clamped by a Zener diode to 6.5V , and extra voltage just results in excessive wasted current which can be up to 90mA if higher voltages are used and this can all add up if you have a lot of motors as it’s a continuous stall current 

 

the Analog IP version is a considerable improvement and I think now is very close in price to the original Omega classic, it’s always worth choosing if you have a choice 

 

DCCConcepts  seem to delight in long winded instructions , written in a “ blokey” manner yet contain very little technical information ( for example the actual operating current range for example ) . A stack of words and writing all adding up to a heap of nothing in my view 

 

i used about 50 of the classic Omega on a club layout recently  

Edited March 8, 2020 by Junctionmad

[D9012]

Crikey!  Thanks guys, for the various suggestions and drawings.  
I’m operating analogue, and I understand the reverse wiring of the DPDT and the need for a regulated supply, thanks.  That covers terminals 1 and 2 I think!

my concern was whether any of terminals 4 to 9 were connected to 1 and 2 in any way.    I see from Brian Lamberts diagrams it’s not the case and explains others’ descriptions of them being SPDT switches.    

So, I take track feeds from rail L to terminal 4 and rail R to terminal 5 and the action of the motor will feed either 4 or 5 to terminal 6 which will go to the frog.   Fine!

 

I intended to link rails across rail breaks at the heel of points (in selected locations)  if the point motor was set in a particular direction.  I’m hoping I’ve got the logic right for the 2nd Switch on the motor - see attached - but because of linking a number of rails it suggests to me I need an additional switch as shown

 

i also designed a separate LED circuit operated from a 6 way 2 pole switch; one pole for controller selection and the other pole for the led circuit.   On that basis I’ve not included anything linked to the motor contact no 3, but show a separate switch for the LED.     I hope this all makes sense!!!!
 

 

[John ks]

If your intention is to have a dead section leading to the frog to prevent trains running into a frog when the point is set wrong,

then I don't think it is necessary to switch both rails. 

The LEDs can be fed from the same power supply as the Omega

If I understand the Omega correctly the LEDs can be wired as shown in position "Z" Edit 1  Previous drawing was wrong

Position "X" is the same as was shown in my previous post

Position "Y" uses the track voltage(DCC) to power the LEDs (Red) & the diodes(black) are to protect the LEDs against reverse voltage

Edit 2  removed LEDs that were for DCC, thanks to AndyID for pointing that out

I've added a resistor to your position "W"

 

 

 

John

Edited March 9, 2020 by John ks
mistake

[AndyID]

Hi John,

 

He's not using DCC.

 

Andy

[arff999]

Am i correct in thinking That your using the SPST switch to control the led and the DPDT switch to throw the motor, 

Also what are the diodes fitted at point X/Z for.

John. 

[D9012]

The DPDT would be the route switch on the panel for the motor, the SPST is for the LED and operated by the point blades 

 

interesting suggestions from John KS.    I shall have a separate circuit for LEDS anyway, as I’m using some Seep motors in the fiddle yard.   So I presume this is an alternative and won’t save me any wiring.   
 

I isolated routes A/B and C/D from the point heel as in some cases there could be an alternative feed operating trains on one of the tracks.   As there’s no particular challenge I presume my diagram is effectively correct?

 

thanks again!

[arff999]

OK

I just wondered why you would use a separate switch to change a set of route indicator leds, when the point motor would do this for you as it would also isolate the tracks.

John. 

 

[Junctionmad]

you dont generally need this switch as you can omit the isolators in the point  if you wiring is like this ( as you show it ) 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Junctionmad

[D9012]

3 hours ago, arff999 said:

OK

I just wondered why you would use a separate switch to change a set of route indicator leds, when the point motor would do this for you as it would also isolate the tracks.

John. 

 

Well!   Partially it would be my lack of knowledge of what can be done ( I look at it too simply?).   And partially I have designed a circuit to suit my Seep motors for the fiddle points and their associated LEDs and it (currently) suits my purpose to continue in the same vein.    I shall need to ponder some more to understand what is doing what, or to present a better question!

[John ks]

8 hours ago, arff999 said:

Am i correct in thinking That your using the SPST switch to control the led and the DPDT switch to throw the motor, 

Also what are the diodes fitted at point X/Z for.

John. 

The diodes at X/Z are LEDs 

The drawing with X,Z,W was modified from D9012's original drawing to show alternate ways to power the LEDs

John KS

[AndyID]

I made the mistake of assuming Cobalt meant "common" to mean the return for power fed to the motor. Alas no. Motor power goes between 1 and 2. Exactly what the "common" pin 3 is for is not clear to me. Other than that:

 

Why do you need all the LEDs? Isn't the position of the switch sufficient indication of the point setting?

 

And if you really need LEDs, why not connect them as Cobalt suggests? At least they'll give a positive indication that power is being fed to the motor.

 

The frog supply from the first switch look good, but what's the point in the second switch? If you want the point to isolate the track beyond it just omit the IRJs to the right of the frog.

[John ks]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

Alas no. Motor power goes between 1 and 2. Exactly what the "common" pin 3 is for is not clear to me

If I am understanding the Omega correctly then the following drawing should explain the inner connections of terminals 1, 2 & 3

 

If you want to use terminal 3 to power LEDs then follow the left side of the diagram

 

John 

[D9012]

This could get complex!

some background may help.   It’s a largish layout, round and round, with 14 fiddle sidings and some complexity on the scenic side. 
having operated club layouts without LEDs on the control panel, or with LEDs that warn of a clash of routes, I decided I wanted a panel that would indicate what’s been selected.  
If I understand the pictures and notes above, it suggests to me that the LEDs will be ‘on’ on either of the routes permanently.   I want LEDs lit only when a route is selected, and linking to the points via a turret switch allows me to do that.  Attached is another picture,  of a scenic-side board plan which might help illustrate what I mean.    Route  marked 1 would  need feed E and C, and I’ve indicated I could select controller A.    When selected the LED circuit would be activated and highlight the route chosen, as well as demonstrating other routes available for other operations.   In this example, shunting on section D (marked 2) is possible with controller B, and controller C is shown selected for trains to depart to/arrive from the right hand side (marked 3).   All independent from each other and with their own route LEDs lit, or not lit when switched off again.     I hope that explanation helps with the logic of what I’m aiming to do.  
the red dots are the LEDs.     Cheers!

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by D9012
Spelling, added red led note

[Junctionmad]

The "feedback”  terminal on the classic omega is merely a tap of the motor supply /2. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Junctionmad

[AndyID]

If you only want LEDs on when a route is selected you could feed power to them via diodes from your route switches and ground them through the contacts in the point motors. You'll need current limiting resistors or LEDs with built-in limiting resistors.

 

That effectively means each LED is controlled by an "AND" logic function:

 

LED ON = (positive voltage feed via diode from route X) AND (motor contact closed to zero volts)

[D9012]

Thanks all, that’s given me a lot more confidence and some things to think about!