Newspapers and Parcels services on SR East Coastway Line in 1970s & 80s?

[Ben04uk]

Does anyone know if there were any newspapers and parcel services operating on the Southern Region East Coastway Line in the 1970s and 1980s, specifically between Eastbourne and Hastings, but also on the Seaford?

 

I presume if there were, they would have a mix of Class 33 and 73 hauled, and would have consisted on the usual combination of CCT/PMV/GUV/Full brake, etc vans?

[Oldddudders]

In the late '60s/early '70s the paper train was the 03.27 Victoria to Eastbourne. I know not from then on, nor exactly the formation, nor what happened to vehicles from Eastbourne going east, if any, although I think something went on to Bexhill. 

[guzzler17]

By the early 80s the papers to Hastings were carried on the 03.35 ex-Victoria via Tunbridge Wells.  The formation was a 33/2 and three bogie 'B' vans.

 

Looking at a 1984 South Eastern Division WTT there was the following mail train along the Coastway

 

23.42 SX Redhill to Hastings (arrive 01.09)

 

formed of a DEMU.  I don't have a Central Division timetable to hand so I don't know the stopping pattern.  There wasn't a path for a westbound service.

[br2975]

In the mid-1980s the following 'may' have been of interest to you (but not all)

.

SOUTHERN REGION PASSENGER-CARRYING VAN TRAINS.

21.45 SX Bristol – Southampton     33/0 + BSK + Vans
01.55 MX Southampton - Bristol    33/0 + BSK + Vans

03.40 SUN Waterloo - Petersfield 50 + TSO + Vans
07.00 SUN Guildford - Woking      50 + TSO + Vans

03.10 SUN Waterloo - Portsmouth      33 + Mk1's + Vans

22.52 Waterloo - Weymouth               73, 33/1 + Mk1's + Vans + TPO(SX)
22.38 SX Weymouth - Waterloo          73, 33/1 + Mk1's + Vans + TPO
22.53 SO   Weymouth - Waterloo       73, 33/1 + Mk1's + Vans + TPO ?

02.45 Waterloo - Bournemouth           33/0,33/1 + Mk1's + Vans
+ Portsmouth portion MO (see below)

04.33 Eastleigh - Portsmouth Harbour 33/0 + BSK + Vans
MO, detached from 02.45 ex W'loo.

03.00 SUN Waterloo - Eastleigh          73 + Mk1's + Vans
07.56 SX Brockenhurst - Eastleigh      73 + Mk1's + Vans

03.33 (04.14 SUN) London Bdge - Eastbourne 73/1 + BSK + Vans

03.40 (03.55 SUN) Victoria - Dover    73/1 + BSK + Vans

02.45 Victoria - Deal                             73 + BSK + Vans
03.10 Victoria - Sittingbourne               73 + BSK + Vans
04.05 SUN Victoria – Ramsgate           73 + BSK + Vans
04.25 SUN Victoria - Dover Priory       73 + BSK + Vans

04.33 Eastleigh - Portsmouth Harbour   33/0 + BSK " Vans
MO, detached from 02.45 ex W'loo.
.

.

I may have  van marshalling details as well

eg for 1F51 the 03:33 ex London Bridge.

.

Brian R

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by br2975

[br2975]

In 1985, the following was part of a diagram; but don't know if it is of interest ?

.

1V00 03:35 Victoria - Hastings (arr. 05:36) was formed  MLV + NFV + NFV + NFV

At Hastings it berthed in the 'dock' before leaving later as 

4H63 08:25 Hastings - Tonbridge 'mails'

Returning to the 'big smoke' as;

4W03 10:16 Tonbridge - London Bridge (arr. 10:54) 'parcels', formed MLV + NFV + NFV + NFV + NFV

Then it ran ECS as;

5A37 11:15 London Bridge - New Cross Gate; formed MLV + NFV + NFV + NFV

.

I love this sort of stuff

.

Brian R

[br2975]

Circa 1987 New Cross Gate had several BR Mk.1 BSK's on it's books, for overnight news traffic, namely;

34556, 34623, 34624, 34625, 34627, 34925

All ran on BR1 bogies, and moved on soon after to either Ramsgate or Eastleigh

.

Brian R

[Ben04uk]

Thanks Brian, very helpful, whether any went on the Eastbourne to Hastings line remains unclear though it seems, but probably not!

[guzzler17]

12 hours ago, br2975 said:

In 1985, the following was part of a diagram; but don't know if it is of interest ?

.

1V00 03:35 Victoria - Hastings (arr. 05:36) was formed  MLV + NFV + NFV + NFV

At Hastings it berthed in the 'dock' before leaving later as 

4H63 08:25 Hastings - Tonbridge 'mails'

Returning to the 'big smoke' as;

4W03 10:16 Tonbridge - London Bridge (arr. 10:54) 'parcels', formed MLV + NFV + NFV + NFV + NFV

Then it ran ECS as;

5A37 11:15 London Bridge - New Cross Gate; formed MLV + NFV + NFV + NFV

.

I love this sort of stuff

.

Brian R

 

Please pardon the question but is 1985 correct for this diagram because the widened and electrified Hastings line wasn't open for standard stock until the beginning of 1986?

 

If the date is correct a change to a 33/2 for Tonbridge to Hastings and return would seem more likely.

[DY444]

13 hours ago, br2975 said:

In the mid-1980s the following 'may' have been of interest to you (but not all)

.

SOUTHERN REGION PASSENGER-CARRYING VAN TRAINS.

21.45 SX Bristol – Southampton     33/0 + BSK + Vans
01.55 MX Southampton - Bristol    33/0 + BSK + Vans

03.40 SUN Waterloo - Petersfield 50 + TSO + Vans
07.00 SUN Guildford - Woking      50 + TSO + Vans

03.10 SUN Waterloo - Portsmouth      33 + Mk1's + Vans

22.52 Waterloo - Weymouth               73, 33/1 + Mk1's + Vans + TPO(SX)
22.38 SX Weymouth - Waterloo          73, 33/1 + Mk1's + Vans + TPO
22.53 SO   Weymouth - Waterloo       73, 33/1 + Mk1's + Vans + TPO ?

02.45 Waterloo - Bournemouth           33/0,33/1 + Mk1's + Vans
+ Portsmouth portion MO (see below)

04.33 Eastleigh - Portsmouth Harbour 33/0 + BSK + Vans
MO, detached from 02.45 ex W'loo.

03.00 SUN Waterloo - Eastleigh          73 + Mk1's + Vans
07.56 SX Brockenhurst - Eastleigh      73 + Mk1's + Vans

03.33 (04.14 SUN) London Bdge - Eastbourne 73/1 + BSK + Vans

03.40 (03.55 SUN) Victoria - Dover    73/1 + BSK + Vans

02.45 Victoria - Deal                             73 + BSK + Vans
03.10 Victoria - Sittingbourne               73 + BSK + Vans
04.05 SUN Victoria – Ramsgate           73 + BSK + Vans
04.25 SUN Victoria - Dover Priory       73 + BSK + Vans

04.33 Eastleigh - Portsmouth Harbour   33/0 + BSK " Vans
MO, detached from 02.45 ex W'loo.
.

.

I may have  van marshalling details as well

eg for 1F51 the 03:33 ex London Bridge.

.

Brian R

 

 

Just to note that some of those booked for diesel haulage in the list were in earlier years, certainly up to 1982, booked for 73s.  This includes the 0245 Bournemouth as far as Eastleigh and the SuO 0310 Portsmouth and SuO 0340 Petersfield.

[keefer]

I'm not really familar with the SR workings, but from 1981 CD carriage working notice for l/h trains

From Eastbourne:

 

From Victoria:

(Courtesy of Robert Carroll's io.group: https://brcoachingstock.groups.io/g/main)

Edited March 10, 2020 by keefer

[anroar53]

The 03:27 Victoria to Eastbourne did have a van or two which worked round to Bexhill, where the Loco, normally a 73/1, ran round and took the empty vans back to Eastbourne. Occasionally the train had to go to Hastings to run round if Bexhill Box was 'switched out', which it was for long periods during the 1980s.

During the 1980s there were a few Mail trains on a Saturday morning that ran along the East Coastway to Hastings. They were normally Blue/Grey EPBs (both 4 and 2 car variants). They had the seat cushions turned over with mail bags stacked on top. They returned empty via Eastbourne (don't remember where exactly). If these trains arrived late (after 12:00) the GPO staff had gone home, and it was left to the station staff to unload. For security the mailbags were loaded into BRUTE trolleys and taken up in the lift to the Old Parcels bridge, where they remained until reclaimed by the Post Office on Monday morning.

[br2975]

2 hours ago, guzzler17 said:

 

Please pardon the question but is 1985 correct for this diagram because the widened and electrified Hastings line wasn't open for standard stock until the beginning of 1986?

 

If the date is correct a change to a 33/2 for Tonbridge to Hastings and return would seem more likely.

My mistake, should read 1986-1987

.

Brian R

[guzzler17]

Another oddity, in the 1984-85 timetable, was the 06.30 SuO Hastings to Bexhill formed of a loco and 1 NFV.  This was a portion from the 04.00 ex-Victoria (loco + 6 NFV).

 

The van was then ECS, depart 06.55, back to Hastings.  It rejoined the other 5 NFVs and all were worked back to Tonbridge.

[John M Upton]

I am pretty sure on an old VHS(!) video I have seen a scene of a 33/2 hauling a single BG van between Ore and Ashford.  Unfortunately no working VHS machine for many years means that clip is now inaccessible.

[roythebus]

I've asked Dave Mulpeter, he was a driver at Brighton and later area manager at Lewes around that time.

[C126]

Working backwards through a few W.T.T.s I have, in the 16th May 1988-14th May 1989 (s. WE), there was only the newspaper train east of Eastbourne (which by then did not have the passenger coach (BSK?) from London to Eastbourne):

 

1F51, D210, 03.33 London Bridge to Bexhill (head-code '61', changed to '75' from Eastbourne).
Eastbourne arr. 05.20.
Eastbourne dep. 05.30.
Bexhill arr. 05.48.

 

This returned in two portions to Brighton (details available if you wish).  The last one of these, Saturday, 9th July, 1988, was formed passing through Lewes of:

 

33 015 (old b/y livery, 'over-head live wire' cantrail stripe, no. 2 end leading).
E93446 NXV rail blue.
S93726 NJV (EW) rail blue.  Old 'oil' tail-lamp on the end.

 

I remember photographing a MLV a few times that buzzed around, but either I am missing it in the cursory look through the time tables, or it appeared only in those later ones (1980's) I threw out recently.  How newspapers reached Seaford I always wondered.

In the 1970's, 'vans' between Eastbourne and Bexhill/Hastings appear no more numerous.  In my copy of 6th May, 1974-4th May, 1975, 'Mandatory', (s. F), there is a "Mails" train from Seaford to Brighton:

 

1K04, [EMU?], 20.35 Seaford-Brighton (head-code '28').
Seaford dep. 20.35.
Lewes 20C50 ["train crew"].
Brighton arr. 21.06.

 

I regret I can not see a 'balancing' Down service, if only E.C.S.  Hope this helps a little.

[Ben04uk]

Thanks very much, I don't believe there was much freight either, other than the oil tanks to Galley Hill and the odd engineer train.

[anroar53]

50 minutes ago, Ben04uk said:

Thanks very much, I don't believe there was much freight either, other than the oil tanks to Galley Hill and the odd engineer train.

 

The only other regular freight was the 'Q' working which ran up to when St. Leonards Depot closed in 1984. It ran between Brighton and St. Leonards running round at Eastbourne, normally a 73 turn. The train consisted of four wheel fuel tankers to supply the DEMUs, the odd van of stores, plus the unique Engine carriers which conveyed overhauled English Electric engines for the DEMUs to and from Eastleigh.

[anroar53]

1 hour ago, C126 said:

 

I remember photographing a MLV a few times that buzzed around, but either I am missing it in the cursory look through the time tables, or it appeared only in those later ones (1980's) I threw out recently.  

 

There was an MLV working from London Bridge to Hastings via Eastbourne very late 1980's early 1990s. It was a night time run, arriving at Hastings around 0100, and leaving to go back about an hour later. It disappeared when the Post Office withdrew mail handling by rail to and from Hastings in the 1990s and switched to road haulage.

[Oldddudders]

36 minutes ago, anroar53 said:

 

The only other regular freight was the 'Q' working which ran up to when St. Leonards Depot closed in 1984. 

Did the patron saint of DEMUs really close that early? The diesels were still running for a while after that, until electrification. 

[anroar53]

7 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Did the patron saint of DEMUs really close that early? The diesels were still running for a while after that, until electrification. 

 

My mistake, it was October 1986, memory playing tricks. The Depot lingered on a while after electrification in May 1986 dealing with the DEMUs still running on the Marshes, before all work was transferred to Selhurst in October 1987.

Having trawled through my photos I found the ones which were taken the following year when the shed was damaged by the great storm of 1987. I also found a picture taken a few years earlier of one of the Engine Carriers outside after a particularly heavy snowfall

Edited March 14, 2020 by anroar53
mistake in date

[C126]

Pondering this over luncheon, and waiting for the accursed computer 'updates' to finish, I wonder, if this is the basis of a model, you could be persuaded to 'move' west of Eastbourne.  There were seven other van trains each 24 hours that terminated at Eastbourne, which would give greater interest.  There was also a goods train that ran to Brighton Top Yard, (pl. 70, dated 1st June, 1978, in 'The power of the electro-diesels', C. J. Marsden, 1980), and the goods trains to Newhaven and Beddingham on the Seaford branch.  If you were just curious, please accept my apologies for the unwanted suggestion.

Edited March 14, 2020 by C126
Typo.

[Ben04uk]

The holy grail was seeing a 4CEP or 4BEP on East Coastway services!

Edited March 14, 2020 by Ben04uk