First OO9 Steps?

[TangoOscarMike]

Hello everyone

 

As a pre-teen in the early 80s, I read articles in Railway Modeller in which people made OO9 railways out of N-gauge models. And I thought then (and ever since) that it must be a glorious thing to express your creativity like this.

 

A couple of weeks ago, an old N-gauge train set (Minitrix, with Arnold and Lima pieces) called to me from the window of a second-hand shop. So now I am ready to make a start:

 

 

 

Firstly, I acknowledge that these are, to my eye, rather nice models. So I would like to hear from anyone who thinks that these are an important part of model railway heritage that belong in a museum, not in my Frankenworkshop.

 

Secondly, I would be grateful for comments on my thoughts, which are:

 

• I will make a simple start by turning a truck into a coach. I think I will buy a Peco 4-wheel coach (or maybe a Parkside kit) just to give me an idea of dimensions, then scratchbuild a coach body.
• I like the couplings, which as I understand it are a fairly standard N type. I think I will stick with them for the time being.
• When I get to the locomotive I will probably scratchbuild a body. But if anyone can recommend a body (metal kit, resin, 3D printed, whatever....) for this chassis, then I'm open to suggestions.
• There's a reasonable amount of track. So although I know that there is OO9 track to be had, I'm thinking about using this stuff. Maybe I could use it unmodified (Rule 1!) or maybe I could butcher it by removing alternate sleepers.......

 

There, those are all my thoughts. Thank you all in advance for any helpful remarks!

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by TangoOscarMike
Restoring pictures

[andrew575]

Hi,

 

The collection looks to be in good condition and the loco appears to be clean.

These are whitemetal kits:

 

Gem make a Varikit for the Minitrix chassis:

https://dundasmodels.co.uk/webstore/index.php/hikashop-menu-for-module-108/product/5333-varikit-version-b-0-6-0-loco-body-kit-requires-minitrix-0-6-0-dock-tank-chassis

Mosskito make this (but out of stock):

https://dundasmodels.co.uk/webstore/index.php/hikashop-menu-for-module-108/product/5676-whr-kerr-stuart-diesel-0-6-0-loco-body-kit-out-of-stock

 

I'm not sure what 3D printed kits/bodies there are.

 

The 009 Society second hand sales often has these kits (well worth joining the society and adding your name to the sales list emails). Or try to get to a show that they are attending - Narrow gauge North next weekend.

 

Andrew

[TangoOscarMike]

Thanks Andrew

 

Looking for pictures of the Varikit, I find that it has appeared in this very forum. I am tempted.

 

But alas, no attending shows for me, since I live in Germany.

 

Tom

 

 

[Nile]

Welcome to the small side.

I suspect those items of rolling stock are quite common in Germany, so not worth preserving or selling. Go ahead and butcher away.

Ratio GWR 4 wheel coach sides are available separately (from Dundas I think) and are commonly used to create 009 coaches. You may be able to use HO coach parts as well, look for cheap bodies.

If the track is buried in ballast no one will notice its origins.

Have fun.

[HonestTom]

Langley do a Darjeeling Himalaya B class for the Arnold chassis. I believe the Gem Dolgoch uses the same chassis.

[Stephen Rainsbury]

On 08/03/2020 at 15:53, TangoOscarMike said:

Firstly, I acknowledge that these are, to my eye, rather nice models. So I would like to hear from anyone who thinks that these are an important part of model railway heritage that belong in a museum, not in my Frankenworkshop.

 

I feel the same, so only buy stuff that looks a bit scruffy and there seem to be loads of them on eBay.

 

On 08/03/2020 at 15:53, TangoOscarMike said:

• I will make a simple start by turning a truck into a coach. I think I will buy a Peco 4-wheel coach (or maybe a Parkside kit) just to give me an idea of dimensions, then scratchbuild a coach body.

 

Dundas (formerly Parkside Dundas) are great but it took me a bit of time to get used to the level of skill being required is much higher than kits from Revell and Airfix, often relying on teh builder gluing things together by eye.

 

On 08/03/2020 at 15:53, TangoOscarMike said:

• I like the couplings, which as I understand it are a fairly standard N type. I think I will stick with them for the time being.
• When I get to the locomotive I will probably scratchbuild a body. But if anyone can recommend a body (metal kit, resin, 3D printed, whatever....) for this chassis, then I'm open to suggestions.
• There's a reasonable amount of track. So although I know that there is OO9 track to be had, I'm thinking about using this stuff. Maybe I could use it unmodified (Rule 1!) or maybe I could butcher it by removing alternate sleepers.......

 

The Pizza track I built for my wife is based on N Gauge track with alternative sleepers removed. It works well, but that doesn't work very well with points, where you have to eave more sleepers, so I use Peco Setrack points which look better but have the legendary "dead fog" which means my small locos running at slow sped can stall on them.  I havn't ballasted it yet, but plan to give it a really overgrown look so hopefully it won;'t be too obvious.

[TangoOscarMike]

Thank you all!

 

I've just ordered a couple of Parkside and/or Dundas kits. Even if I botch the assembly of these things, they will still serve as a sanity check on the proportions of my freelance coach bodies for the N-gauge wagon chassis.

 

I will leave the locomotive for the future, if indeed there is a future.

 

In the nasty real world, big companies rebrand themselves because of conspicuous failed projects, financial scandals, harassment scandals, or for no reason at all.

 

But in the model railway world (peering through my rose-tinted spectacles) it seems that the same products crop up under different brand names because when companies grind to a halt there is usually another company to take over the moulds.

 

Which is nice.

 

[009 micro modeller]

On 08/03/2020 at 23:39, TangoOscarMike said:

Thanks Andrew

 

Looking for pictures of the Varikit, I find that it has appeared in this very forum. I am tempted.

 

But alas, no attending shows for me, since I live in Germany.

 

Tom

 

 

 

The 009 sales items can be posted, and often are to members in the UK and overseas.

 

I like the sound of what you’re doing, although I’m not sure whether starting  with the Minitrix chassis is a good idea as these are not always that reliable and smooth compared to more modern chassis. On the other hand, many of the cheap modern N gauge chassis (Kato 11-103/4 etc) are less suitable for steam prototypes. I like the idea of removing alternate sleepers from the track - this gives an appearance a bit like Decauville/Feldbahn track. It has worked better for me than the first layout I did in 009, where burying the 2mm scale sleepers in ballast created a few running problems. There’s no actual problem with the standard N gauge couplings, but you’ll find that most RTR and secondhand 009/H0e stock will be fitted with Bemo-type loop couplings which are more commonly used in 009. But don’t worry too much about this, always make sure you’re having fun. 

[BernardTPM]

Ted Polet's Craigcorrie & Dunalistair uses standard N Gauge couplings, so you wouldn't be alone. I have fitted an N gauge coupling hook with a wire upright so standard H0e/009 looks will connect.

[TangoOscarMike]

8 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

I like the sound of what you’re doing, although I’m not sure whether starting  with the Minitrix chassis is a good idea as these are not always that reliable and smooth compared to more modern chassis.

 

I'm ashamed to say that I haven't actually tried running the locomotive yet. Hopefully it won't catch fire.....

 

8 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

There’s no actual problem with the standard N gauge couplings, but you’ll find that most RTR and secondhand 009/H0e stock will be fitted with Bemo-type loop couplings which are more commonly used in 009.

 

3 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Ted Polet's Craigcorrie & Dunalistair uses standard N Gauge couplings, so you wouldn't be alone. I have fitted an N gauge coupling hook with a wire upright so standard H0e/009 looks will connect.

 

I can see myself making a coach or two with one of each coupling. This would save me from having to pick a single standard. Perhaps.

 

I like Craigcorrie & Dunalistair - what could be finer than a model railway with a paddle steamer? And I see that Ted Polet started out by putting an Airfix pug on the Minitrix chassis, so that's encouraging.

 

4 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

 

 

I look forward to seeing those with some paint on.

[009 micro modeller]

16 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Ted Polet's Craigcorrie & Dunalistair uses standard N Gauge couplings, so you wouldn't be alone. I have fitted an N gauge coupling hook with a wire upright so standard H0e/009 looks will connect.

That looks very interesting. Can I ask what the railbus body is made from?

[BernardTPM]

It's the old Keil Kraft Green Line bus kit, though I altered to doors near the back to make it more suited to railbus use.

[TangoOscarMike]

Well, this is fun. I have hastily assembled a Dundas kit, sloshed some paint on and perched the unpainted roof on top. Here it is, along with an N-gauge chassis and The Man Who Is Pleased With Himself.

 

The chassis is a bit longer. Not long enough for another compartment, but maybe long enough for a half-compartment, if I reckon that a half-compartment is 2/3 the length of a full compartment. It might look something like this,

 

 

depending on how generous I am with windows.

 

I could make a brake coach, of course: a guard's compartment would absorb extra length nicely. Or I could consider a completely different internal layout without compartments.

 

Whatever I do I won't chop up Dundas kits. I'll probably use plasticard and strip.

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by TangoOscarMike
Restoring pictures

[otty]

Nice, paint work looks very good 

 

No need for you to cut up whole kits as individual sprues are available from Dundas at a fraction of the cost (last ones I bought were about £1 or so per sprue). Easy to get, just a polite email/call to Andrew (the very nice gent who owns Dundas).

 

Baz

[TangoOscarMike]

3 hours ago, otty said:

Nice, paint work looks very good 

 

Thank you. I'm very pleased with how easily these kits go together. My first coach kit was a Ratio 4 wheeler, and that didn't work out at all well. A valuable learning experience, I suppose.

 

3 hours ago, otty said:

No need for you to cut up whole kits as individual sprues are available from Dundas at a fraction of the cost (last ones I bought were about £1 or so per sprue). Easy to get, just a polite email/call to Andrew (the very nice gent who owns Dundas).

 

That's most interesting, thank you. For the time being I'll stick with my plasticard scheme, but it's nice to know there's a good alternative if it doesn't work out. Or if it does.

 

Cheers

Tom

 

[PatB]

Do Peco still do the James (saddle tank) and Jeanette (side tank) loco kits? Those used the Minitrix 0-6-0 chassis, and were something of a classic 009 starter loco, back in the day. The heavy whitemetal castings should improve the chassis running significantly over standard. 

[BernardTPM]

Yes, they do, though these days to fit a Farish chassis.

[TangoOscarMike]

I have been contemplating these Peco loco bodies. If memory serves, I looked longingly at pictures of them in my round of railway modelling, 35+ years ago.

[Butler Henderson]

5 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Yes, they do, though these days to fit a Farish chassis.

Um.. they look so wrong having inside cylinders. Worth noting the majority of 009 loco kits can be adopted to fit difference chassis  - just retrieved my "Jeanette" from its storage box,seemingly in need of some TLC, which has a long time now unavailable Ibertren 0-4-0 chassis with a  pony truck.

 

 

[BernardTPM]

I agree there for 009. Perhaps as 3mm scale 3 foot gauge inside cylinders would be more feasible. The cabs were probably small enough for 3mm scale after all.

[Nile]

James does seem more 3mm scale. When I built one I increased the cab height, amongst other mods.

[Charlie009]

4 hours ago, Nile said:

James does seem more 3mm scale. When I built one I increased the cab height, amongst other mods.

As I understand things, Peco were initially intending to make these for TTn3 before Eggerbahn arrived and H09/009 took off. If you look at the cab openings on both James and Jeanette, they’re definitely undersized for 4mm scale.

 

Charlie Insley

[TangoOscarMike]

Thanks folks, this is all very informative.

 

I'll probably start with plasticard doodles, but of course I'm not limited to a single approach, and the Varikit could well be plan B.

 

I was planning to attend a model railway meeting (more of a bring-and-buy sale, than an exhibition, I think) here in Germany. And I might have discovered that these locomotives are cheap and plentiful. But of course the virus has put paid to all that, for the time being.

[TangoOscarMike]

How time flies when you're procrastinating!

 

I haven't actually made anything yet, or even designed anything. But I did buy a Peco coach in order to get a better idea of sizes. I wasn't especially surprised to find that the Parkside/Dundas coach really is a bit on the small side (but not so much that it looks out-of-scale).

 

The N-gauge chassis is barely longer than the Peco coach, so perhaps it will be fine to put two compartments on it, instead of two-and-a-half.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by TangoOscarMike
Spelling and grammar.

[BernardTPM]

The little Dundas coach could be used for a workmen's train, perhaps.