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First OO9 Steps?


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Two coach sides almost complete in the jig. For the horizontal strips I clamped a steel ruler against my marks, then glued the strip up against the ruler.

 

For the vertical strips I used a small length of brass U section, with slots filed for the horizontal strips, as a guide. 

 

coach_side_in_jig.png.ac985ebcd84e0d4110a690dd0af1522c.png

 

The result (still some finishing to be done). I took the pair of sides out of the jig, turned it/them over and put them back in to attach a thick horizontal strip, which will locate on the floor. And finally I separated them.

 

two_coach_sides.png.545c985d7bb1afda91ff4637f34fe143.png

 

Next the ends.

 

coach_sides_taped_in_place.png.7f864705417e0623fd24a25d047ef9d6.png

 

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9 hours ago, Woody C said:

Got to say superb result so far and I have to admire your ingenuity, skill and patience in making these coaches. Just incredible! 

Thank you very much!

 

When I was a teenager, or before, I fiddled with various models and half-assembled kits, but I never managed to make anything that pleased me, or indeed finish anything at all.

 

It's taken adulthood (accelerating rapidly towards dotage) for me to develop the ability to complete projects. I don't think that I'm especially more skilled than I was - I think that it has more to do with realising that applied patience leads to results.

 

There are other factors, or course. It helps that I can make precise drawings on the computer and print them. And these days I can buy more or less whatever tools and materials I like, without worrying about parental approval. On the other hand, I will need spousal approval for a lathe or a 3D printer - one fine day.

 

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7 hours ago, Chris Williamson said:

Tom,  I had to look twice to see you were producing two sides at the same time in the first photo.  Any thoughts on using the jig to produce a 4 compartment small bogie coach?

I have three of these chassis, so I'm going to start with three identical coaches. Or near-identical: I might make one with fewer windows, for 3rd class.

 

I then have two more chassis. One is of similar length to the three, so I might try to make the same coach sides work, or I might make something a little different. Maybe an old-fashioned carriage-style coach, inspired by @BernardTPM's examples.

 

The other chassis is a little longer, and I reckon I'll be able to fit two passenger compartments and a guard's compartment on it.

 

At some point in all this I will square my shoulders and make a locomotive body. Then when I've used up all my N-gauge rolling stock, I will pause for breath and contemplate my next actions! (some Dundas kits, perhaps).

 

I could consider bogie coaches, but I probably won't want long coaches, because if when I make a layout it will be as small as possible, so long coaches might be a bit self-defeating (the Ffestiniog bogie coaches look incredibly long to me). On the other hand, Peco sell pairs of bogies on their own, so that's tempting.

 

As for jigs, this one was very easy to make, and so for future purposes I'll probably make additional jigs precisely tailored to the chosen dimensions. The jig was made as follows:

  1. I designed scribbled the coach with the free LibreCAD 2D drawing software, then made a jig/template picture consisting of a rectangle for the coach sides, surrounding by lines to indicate where the cuts and strips should go.
  2. I printed this onto ordinary paper, then glued the paper onto two thicknesses of cereal box.
  3. I cut out the rectangle.
  4. I fixed the whole thing to a sheet of plastic using the masking tape and superglue trick.

The jig doesn't help with cutting out the coach side. I measured and cut a rectangle of plasticard then put it in the jig. But my measuring and cutting was good enough - it was a nice snug fit.

 

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Here's a selection of bogies I've used on n.g. coaches (wheelbase in brackts):

 

Bogies.jpg.36c3cc06a2069ec684eeddd4fb2ba714.jpg

 

Top row L to R: Dundas DM11 Vale of Rheidol (12mm), Dundas DM60 Festinog (14mm), N Gauge Society NGSB0003 8ft plate (16mm)

Bottom Row:

Lima BR1* (15mm) and Bachmann American**  (15mm).

 

The Peco L&BR coach bogies (about 17mm, I think) are a bit longer so may look a bit crowded under a short coach. I'd suggest the Dundas DM11 type or the Peco L&B diamond frame GR-106.

 

* with tie-bar removed and fitted with 7mm dia. wheels.

** as used under their short heavyweight coaches, fitted with Roco 6mm wheels (5.5mm as supplied).

 

 

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Two coach ends, and the jig I used to assemble them.

 

The wire I used for the rail is far too thick. But it was all I could find, and I was on a roll.

 

Fortunately, I have enough self control to add hinges and handles to the doors before assembling the sides and ends. That's what I'm doing now.

 

two_coach_ends.png.182bbb0180a2c52f2796d136c4fdcf54.png

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Hello Tom, Fantastic modelling! Really impressed by what you are doing. Good to see you have managed to get outside hopefully on a day of better weather and no doubt with a few domestic chores done going towards the score sheet that may lead to domestic approval for a 3D printer or similar! 

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On 02/04/2021 at 22:57, TangoOscarMike said:

 

Thank you! This thread could end up being a sort of Rosetta Stone of 009 dimensions!

 

Should we split this out into a useful new thread for others to add to?  A reference catalogue of 009 dimensions, especially kits.  This would allow prospective purchasers, who haven't otherwise seen or got a sense of the dimensions of a particular item of stock, to decide if the item fitted with the 'loading gauge' and general 'scale' of their particular setup or project.  I'm thinking of the sort of dimensions that @BernardTMP  has kindly provided for us this far.

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10 hours ago, Chris Williamson said:

Should we split this out into a useful new thread for others to add to?  A reference catalogue of 009 dimensions, especially kits.  This would allow prospective purchasers, who haven't otherwise seen or got a sense of the dimensions of a particular item of stock, to decide if the item fitted with the 'loading gauge' and general 'scale' of their particular setup or project.  I'm thinking of the sort of dimensions that @BernardTMP  has kindly provided for us this far.

 

It's a good idea, especially given the likelihood (I suppose) that prospective 009 modellers will be designing their own freelance rolling stock.

 

It would also be good to include real prototypical information. I would like to know if my small DM75 and DM76 are similar to anything that exists in real life. I'm sure there are coaches that small on the smaller narrow gauges (15", maybe). But were there ever any coaches that small on 2'3", I wonder?

 

I won't start a dedicated thread until I actually have something to contribute.....

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And here we are. The hinges are just scraps of plasticard. I was thinking of adding pieces of stretched sprue for the hinge barrels, but I decided to quit while I was ahead. The handles are whittled from L-section.

 

coach_body_nearing_completion.png.cd8ae801a230a7f56937d8701a918a5f.png

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Yesterday I made a roof, in the usual way, with plasticard strapped to a tin can of hot water (in fact, I put the can on the cooker and brought the water almost to the boil).

 

Then last night I couldn't sleep, so I got up and worked on it (central partition, ears to hold the roof on, oil lamp holders, rain strips) until there was nothing else to do. I've never made a mostly-plasticard model like this, and I really enjoy how quick and straightforward it is: cut, glue, cut, glue.....

 

I think I must have internalised a lot of what I've read on RMweb, because I wasn't thinking very much - I knew what to do, although I'd never done it before.

 

coach_ready_for_paint.png.4610f53d4cbb0edb2644130387be9847.png

 

coach_ready_for_paint_roof_off.png.846a8e09f5f94e455f8d41687ebdebf5.png

 

I need to decide what to do about the buffers. There are various options, and I don't need to have buffers at all. But the height and spacing of the existing N-gauge buffers are pretty similar to the Peco coach. So if I ignore the rather short shanks, then all I have to do is enlarge the buffer heads. And I suppose I don't have to even do that.

 

what_to_do_with_the_buffers.png.0e8ad4c0ce92434737c9c87bc6e4c355.png

 

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14 hours ago, TangoOscarMike said:

Yesterday I made a roof, in the usual way, with plasticard strapped to a tin can of hot water (in fact, I put the can on the cooker and brought the water almost to the boil).

 

Then last night I couldn't sleep, so I got up and worked on it (central partition, ears to hold the roof on, oil lamp holders, rain strips) until there was nothing else to do. I've never made a mostly-plasticard model like this, and I really enjoy how quick and straightforward it is: cut, glue, cut, glue.....

 

I think I must have internalised a lot of what I've read on RMweb, because I wasn't thinking very much - I knew what to do, although I'd never done it before.

 

coach_ready_for_paint.png.540707e9f75839681e4e8098f04a75f7.png

 

coach_ready_for_paint_roof_off.png.b54702c197cbc1450bdf082877686c6c.png

 

I need to decide what to do about the buffers. There are various options, and I don't need to have buffers at all. But the height and spacing of the existing N-gauge buffers are pretty similar to the Peco coach. So if I ignore the rather short shanks, then all I have to do is enlarge the buffer heads. And I suppose I don't have to even do that.

 

what_to_do_with_the_buffers.png.71c10efb180089211cab8332647e7232.png

 

That's how I started 30+ years ago, and then 5 years later some one showed me how to make moulds from my coach sides and ends and resin cast from those moulds. Then I moved up a scale and bought the moribund Port Wynnstay Models business and I'm still doing it. It's my iteration of the business's 25th birthday of going public this year. Just a warning of the possible consequences of what you are making a rather nice job of!!!

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On 09/04/2021 at 10:54, BernardTPM said:

Nice work, Tom. Side buffers are much less common, but there are plenty of exceptions.

Thank Bernard. My "research" was pretty sloppy:

  • Ffestiniog: single central buffer/coupling
  • Talyllyn: side buffers

More of a coin toss than proper research. I suppose that the Peco coupling is actually a model representation of a single central buffer, with an added coupling loop. So it might be wise to standardise on Peco couplings and no side-buffers.

 

But I'm going to stick with the N-gauge couplings, which in their turn seem like a plausible representation of the various types of knuckly-coupling things.....

 

Since I'm operating at the toy-trains end of the spectrum, I might decide that I don't care, which will lead to an implausible mixture of stock with and without buffers.

 

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On 09/04/2021 at 15:27, Phil Traxson said:

Just a warning of the possible consequences of what you are making a rather nice job of!!!

 

Thanks Phil!

 

I'm not very good at doing something more than once - the big challenge for me now is to make my other chassis into coaches before my attention wanders. Oooh! Cake!

 

This probably condemns me to a life of being an employee: I'm good at solving problems, but not so good at organising stuff! So there's probably no danger of any of my hobbies turning into a career. Also, I like my job, most of the time.

 

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1 hour ago, TangoOscarMike said:

Since I'm operating at the toy-trains end of the spectrum, I might decide that I don't care, which will lead to an implausible mixture of stock with and without buffers.

Not without precedence: Campbeltown & Machrihanish. The centre buffers for the passenger stock, older colliery wagons had buffers and dumb buffers.

 

Also there are several 009 modellers who use N gauge coupings. As Peco's new 009 stock uses NEM sockets it's not hard to make a converter wagon or coach either.

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  • 6 months later...

Well now. I had several weeks of dabbing on a little bit of paint from time to time, scowling at the result, then repeating the activity a few days later.

 

And then I had a long summer with work bleeding into real life, odd scraps of leisure time spent outside, and very little modelling at all.

 

A few days ago I looked at the coach again, and a remembered that it isn't a Fabergé egg, and nobody's life depends on the quality of the paint job. So I gave it a coat of varnish and declared it finished.

 

Next came glazing, cut from some plastic packaging and secured with a few blobs of PVA around the edges ("it's the wrong glue, Gromit").
 

coach_ready_for_glazing.png.2d484ba8d5be7e11aadb4f744246cddc.png

 

And I've decided to worry about the buffers at some future time, if at all.

 

So now I have two coaches that roughly match in terms of dimensions and livery, and one runt-of-the-litter (roof currently AWOL).

 

coach_finished.png.d4d5b4f000863bd210ce754a30811168.png

 

Now I think it's time to tackle the locomotive. And maybe make another coach.

 

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The original locomotive has a threaded hole in the chassis, and the body is held on with a long screw. My starting point will be a running plate (card experiment shown here), and I need a much shorter screw, with the same thread.

 

the_need_for_a_screw.png.8a94a6b28af9906685c23e7f3b872e06.png

 

I thought it might be M2, and I went to my nearest model shop (mainly aircraft and boats, they don't do trains) and looked at their selection of machine screws. They had M1, M1.2, M1.4 and M1.6 - all clearly too small. M2 looked about right, but when we tried my screw in an M2 nut, it slid straight through.

 

The man in the shop said he thought it might be M1.8 ("I don't know if anyone still makes that" he said) but he also said that in the old days many model railway companies had their own thread standards. I'll take that with a pinch of salt (maybe in the old old days...). I bought some M2 screws anyway.

 

Still, according to Wikipedia M1.8 does exist in ISO 262.

 

I've looked on Amazon, and found many sets of small machine screws for sale - in many cases marketed for repairing glasses. Not many of these have anything between M1.6 and M2, but those that do have something called M1.7. Tsk.

 

If they (the people responsible for all the things in the world) had bothered to ask me, I would have advised them to keep things straightforward. It's too late now.

 

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, TangoOscarMike said:

The original locomotive has a threaded hole in the chassis, .....

 

the_need_for_a_screw.png.28efdf7528b80094c91374af6cc12845.png

 

I thought it might be M2, .....

 

*

I speak from experience as follows.

 

A couple of years ago I wanted a replacement bolt for these MiniTrix chassis.

 

I will not be so bold as to state what size the threaded hole is, BUT I will say I found some bolts that fitted. They were not metric sized - BUT in fact 10BA.

 

These are available from various suppliers including Eileen's (usual disclaimer). If the bolt is too long it can be shortened by sawing and then the thread at the new end re-established with a needle file.

 

 

CP

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1 minute ago, cp409067 said:

I will not be so bold as to state what size the threaded hole is, BUT I will say I found some bolts that fitted. They were not metric sized - BUT in fact 10BA.

 

Thank you! I'd persuaded myself that it had to be metric, since the model is German. And it's my interests for it to be metric, since I live in Germany. I dread to think what happens to people who try to smuggle imperial hardware out of the UK, or into Germany, in these times. Bad things, I expect!

 

As you say, it might not actually be 10BA, just close enough. I've just asked Google about nearest metric equivalents of 10BA, but of course this topic is a rabbit warren.

 

I have an un-assembled Brassmasters Cleminson Chassis kit, which includes 10BA machine screws. Maybe I will borrow one of those. Or maybe I'll be really lucky and find that there's a spare.

 

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I spent a while on the internet, looking for small metric machine screws, and I even considered buying some tiny dies from a model engineering supplier.

 

But then I found and tried a 10BA screw. And since it fits perfectly, I've lost interest in the hypothesis that it's actually something else. So here we are:

 

running_plate_first_milestone.png.c6b1bb85b3e7d41133eef6ab7779858b.png

 

I was thinking of making the running plate out of brass. But this plastic mock-up will probably become the finished thing.

 

running_plate_from_below.png.b69a11e663401c3497b12de62b10e790.png

 

The strips underneath are to locate it against the chassis. The two extra holes, and the partly cut rectangle, are the beginnings of an attachment scheme based on the Gem Vari-Kit .

 

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The original locomotive body is held on with a long machine screw whose head is disguised in the dome. This is a pretty neat piece of sleight-of-hand, but a difficult thing to adapt to a freelance narrow-gauge body. This is what I've done:

 

The central rectangle is almost cut away at this point. I've cut two plastic plates that will be glued to the main running plate, and will cover the outer screw holes. If I do all this again, I will make these two pieces a little bigger.

rpa_00.png.2a7a9623507584680de62374d5063106.png

 

Masking tape on the two plates and on the central rectangle.

rpa_01.png.e08b5f36920164601b626f61bbc4a285.png

 

The two plates are attached to the main running plate with superglue on the masking tape only.

rpa_02.png.0aa95c3932eda079359fa15d5f83bf48.png

 

And then glued with ordinary plastic glue to the running plate.

rpa_03.png.aad6047a8f056355b60fda0cf0d6a785.png

 

Holes drilled through and enlarged.

rpa_04.png.291cc6d49362bde5d64873a5d1113d95.png

 

And now the central rectangle is finally cut free, and the masking tape discarded.

rpa_05.png.f16753e1ed9ec2a17f402af6089b92c0.png

 

The central plate put back in position and held with machine screws.

rpa_06.png.7c0c3a6f7ff3f5435196c1cdead01f47.png

 

And the nuts trapped in place with little plastic surrounds.

rpa_07.png.09cebd388293df22d890966e373816ac.png

 

 

 

rpa_08.png.bd9479dfbadb87a84664910e417ea95e.png

 

 

 

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