First OO9 Steps?

[tractionman]

On 29/03/2020 at 16:05, TangoOscarMike said:

I have been contemplating these Peco loco bodies. If memory serves, I looked longingly at pictures of them in my round of railway modelling, 35+ years ago.

 

I have also been tempted back to 009 after a similar time-span!

 

I have a H0e 0-6-0 that I think might usefully provide a chassis for this 009 body:

 

https://www.mattditch.photography/online-shop-1/009-peckett-0-6-0t-mdm16

 

currently on sale for £21 which seems pretty good to me.

 

all the best,

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MattDitch]

Which chassis were you thinking of using with the body?

[tractionman]

4 minutes ago, MattDitch said:

Which chassis were you thinking of using with the body?

 

The chassis is from one of these

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/hqSAuwVFaTZB3dLV6

 

I've one I bought as a youngster in 1981, and a more recent one bought used but runs well, I've no idea how easy they'd fit the Peckett body but at just over twenty quid I might just give it a go and see!

 

Cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MattDitch]

I've only tested the Peckett on the Life-Like chassis (the chassis I designed it for). So I can't say if that chassis will fit it, the motor in the cab does look rather large!

[Grizz]

The idea of using n gauge chassis’ and bogies with OO gauge bodies prompted me to have a go at a loco and three coaches, back in 2008. Years ago I’d bought three Atlas n scale GP9s and a load of wagon bogies with roller bearings and long couplings, and I used these to create some rolling stock. 
 

Today I dug them out of the loft and laid a little n gauge track to have a play around. The diesel loco body uses a Dapol Drewery shunter cab, scratch built body and a Lego exhaust pipe. Halfords red primer, for now. The coach are narrowed and height shortened Hornby four wheeled coach bodies. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Grizz
Auto correct again

[TangoOscarMike]

At long last I've taken some action.

 

For the converted N-gauge rolling stock I'm planning to stick with the original couplings. But I have a Peco coach with a Peco coupling. So on one of the N-gauge chassis I've replaced one of the couplings with a Peco one.

 

In fact, I lost one of the couplings while tinkering with a dismantled van. So I had to replace it with something anyway.

 

 

There was a little bit of carving, to make room for the Peco coupling, as well as a 1mm plasticard shim. The coupling is superglued in place, and then entombed in epoxy putty. I took some in-progress pictures, but indoors at night, and they didn't really come out.

 

Height wise it looks about right, and it works. So now it's time to build some coach bodies.

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by TangoOscarMike

[TangoOscarMike]

I've decided to use the Peco coach as a guide to dimensions, rather than the diminutive Parkside coaches. For now, at any rate.

 

Here are mockup paper coach bodies on two of the chassis. The untouched items of N-gauge rolling stock contemplate their fate.

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by TangoOscarMike
Restoring pictures

[Chris Williamson]

The proportions of the mock-up paper coaches look very convincing.  As a matter of interest, which Dundas coach kits did you experiment with?  Looking back at your earlier posts I wondered if you had used the DM28 Single Compartment 4 Wheel Coach and / or DM29 Two Compartment 4 Wheel Coach, both based on V of R/Glyn Valley?  Or had you used one of the other 4 wheel coach kits?   I'd been thinking of having a go at something like this myself, but only if DM28 and DM29 were of similar dimensions to the Peco ready-to-run models.

[TangoOscarMike]

1 hour ago, Chris Williamson said:

As a matter of interest, which Dundas coach kits did you experiment with?

 

They are DM75 and DM76. Their other offerings may well be more similar in size to the Peco coaches. Before I bought them I tried to find a size comparison online, but without success.

 

Perhaps some kind soul could post a picture showing a wide range of 009 4-wheel coaches side-by-side. Perhaps it will be me, one day!

 

[BernardTPM]

Probably not quite what you're looking for, but here's a train of varied 4 wheel coaches I've made, some recently, some not so recent.

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by BernardTPM

[TangoOscarMike]

12 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

Probably not quite what you're looking for, but here's a train of varied 4 wheel coaches I've made, some recently, some not so recent.

Thanks Bernard, that's certainly a piece of the puzzle (also, nice coaches!).

 

What isn't evident, of course, is how big they are. If you wouldn't mind the trouble of posting dimensions, or photographs with a figure (or with a Peco coach, if you have one) then I'd be much obliged. I reckon these coaches are longer than mine (based on the number of compartments) but it isn't easy to be sure at this angle.

 

I'd also be interested in an account of where they came from - it looks like a quite a bit of blending of kit parts. I'm particularly interested in the carriage-style coaches, since I've had a few stabs at this in OO, and I'm thinking of something similar for at least one of my N-gauge chassis.

 

Perhaps you've already posted more details of these somewhere in RMWeb - I've just had quick rummage and couldn't find anything, but then there is an awful lot of content here.

[BernardTPM]

Thanks Tom. They're quite a varied bunch, but all are around the same length, 54mm to 55mm.

1 - Birdcage Brake - converted from a Meridian 'Lancaster' coach kit.

2 - Third from a K's 'Mataro' coach.

3 - TR style coach. An unknown make of kit dating from around 1971.

4 - First, again from a K's 'Mataro'.

5 - Mike's Models TR coach kit.

6 - 'Milk' brake. Uses a compartment from the Meridian 'Lancaster' with the rest from one side of an Ian Kirk 3mm scale Siphon.

All but 1 & 5 have running gear made from Lima BR wagon chassis, stretched and disguised/hidden. The oil lamps are from Dundas Models kits (left-over parts). Height rail to roof varies between 30mm (2 & 4) to 31½mm (3), width excluding duckets 20⅔mm (1) to 24mm (5).

[TangoOscarMike]

8 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

They're quite a varied bunch, but all are around the same length, 54mm to 55mm.

Thanks for the detailed feedback Bernard. These dimensions are indeed similar to the Peco coach, so I reckon that DM75 and DM76 are actually a bit small to represent "normal" prototypes. Although I daresay that the huge variety of real narrow-gauge railways produced coaches this small.

 

So I will crack on with the proportions of my paper mock-ups. I have some evergreen strips in the post - with a bit of luck the parcel will arrive today.

[Chris Williamson]

2 hours ago, TangoOscarMike said:

Thanks for the detailed feedback Bernard. These dimensions are indeed similar to the Peco coach, so I reckon that DM75 and DM76 are actually a bit small to represent "normal" prototypes. Although I daresay that the huge variety of real narrow-gauge railways produced coaches this small.

 

So I will crack on with the proportions of my paper mock-ups. I have some evergreen strips in the post - with a bit of luck the parcel will arrive today.

Is there anyone on the Forum who can give us the dimensions to the Dundas kits DM28 Single Compartment 4 Wheel Coach and / or DM29 Two Compartment 4 Wheel Coach, both based on V of R/Glyn Valley?  Having searched extensively, I've been unable to find any mention of dimensions or indeed anything that gives a clue as to how they compare, size-wise, with other stock.  I recently acquired the DM64 and DM69 Festiniog style bogie coaches with a view to adapting them.  I knew beforehand, from posts elsewhere on this forum, that they were on the small side, but was a little surprised at how diminutive they are.  In the experience of others, is this true for all of the Dundas coach kits?

[BernardTPM]

One type of Dundas n.g. coach not represented in my previous picture is the Festinog & Blaenau based range: DM43, DM44, DM62, DM63, DM67, DM68 & DM74. These are all the same size so 29mm from rail to roof, 46⅔mm long and 22mm wide (over body). Note these are somewhat like the Festinog Railway 'Birminghams' (Bug Boxes) in that the wheels rise up through the floor. In the F&BR coaches these boxes are covered by the transverse seats, hence the odd arrangement with doors at the outer ends. As a result the sides are fairly normal height, but there's no obvious underframe underneath them.

 

 

Shown are DM63, DM43 and a modified DM74; to avoid the wheels blocking the double doors I moved them to the centre by taking one end panel off and doubling it up at one end.

Dundas do sell side (and other) mouldings separately if you ask. The sides on these are 23½mm high which is probably similar to the Peco GVT sides.

[BernardTPM]

31 minutes ago, Chris Williamson said:

I recently acquired the DM64 and DM69 Festiniog style bogie coaches with a view to adapting them.  I knew beforehand, from posts elsewhere on this forum, that they were on the small side, but was a little surprised at how diminutive they are.  In the experience of others, is this true for all of the Dundas coach kits?

The short answer is no. I don't have any of the VoR/GVT type but as you can see from my measurements of the F&BR type they do vary in size according to what they are based on. The FR short bogie range was based on the dimensions of the FR coach no.10 which was originally a luggage van. When rebuilt for passenger use the floor was higher than the usual FR bogie coach design (which are almost built like bogie well wagons with higher floors just over the bogies, look at the footseps here) but still had to fit through the same small tunnel (the old Moelwyn, now flooded), hence the very short sides. I've used them to make a British H0-9 coach and even then I made the sides slightly deeper.

 

 

They have even been used to make 3mm scale 3 foot gauge coaches in the past.

For a more normal loading gauge the DM10 Vale of Rheidol bogie coach is a good bet. The sides from the DM17 guard's van can be used to make a freelance Passenger Brake coach. Alternatively a DM10 body could be chopped in two to make two three compartment 4-wheelers of 'normal' height.

Edited March 23, 2021 by BernardTPM

[Chris Williamson]

33 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

The short answer is no. I don't have any of the VoR/GVT type but as you can see from my measurements of the F&BR type they do vary in size according to what they are based on. The FR short bogie range was based on the dimensions of the FR coach no.10 which was originally a luggage van. When rebuilt for passenger use the floor was higher than the usual FR bogie coach design (which are almost built like bogie well wagons with higher floors just over the bogies, look at the footseps here) but still had to fit through the same small tunnel (the old Moelwyn, now flooded), hence the very short sides. I've used them to make a British H0-9 coach and even then I made the sides slightly deeper.

 

 

They have even been used to make 3mm scale 3 foot gauge coaches in the past.

For a more normal loading gauge the DM10 Vale of Rheidol bogie coach is a good bet. The sides from the DM17 guard's van can be used to make a freelance Passenger Brake coach. Alternatively a DM10 body could be chopped in two to make two three compartment 4-wheelers of 'normal' height.

Thanks Bernard,  you've reminded me that it was your original post that I had been thinking of.  Do you have the dimensions for the DM17?  I've now found a post, outwith this forum, that suggests DM17 is similar in proportion to DM28 and DM29: The ‘Workhorse’ Coaches are Finished – Steve's Narrow Gauge Adventure (009adventure.blog)  https://009adventure.blog/2015/03/14/the-workhorse-coaches-are-finished/

 

Thanks, too, for your very informative post regarding DM63, DM43 and a modified DM74.  Using the sides from these certainly looks to have possibilities.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Chris Williamson
Include link

[BernardTPM]

I've never had a complete DM17, though I did do a Passenger brake conversion using a set of the sides with a DM10. That was sold off some years back, but I still have a DM10. This is 34mm high from rail to roof, 23½mm wide with sides 25mm deep, including 2½mm of solebar. The DM17 would be a pretty near match.

 

If building bogie coaches using the F&BR range sides the original F&BR style compartments (DM43, 44, 62, 63) give 'Third' class and the two compartment version (DM67, 68) 'First' class with DM74 as the brake/luggage section.

Some dice and splice ideas:

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by BernardTPM

[TangoOscarMike]

A little progress:

 

I made a jig for cutting window apertures and applying beading. The long piece of plastic is two coach sides, and the smaller piece is the floor. The Z section will be used for steps.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by TangoOscarMike
Restoring pictures

[TangoOscarMike]

I've cut holes in the central part of the Z section, removing most of the material, then attached them to the floor to form the steps.

 

These pieces, in addition to being steps, locate the floor properly on top of the N-gauge chassis.

 

 

It's not so clear in the photograph, because the floor is (intentionally) shorter than the chassis. So here's a clarifying doodle.

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by TangoOscarMike
Restoring pictures

[Chris Williamson]

I shall be very interested to see the results from your jig.  As a matters of interest, which supplier did you use for your Z-section profile?

[TangoOscarMike]

22 hours ago, Chris Williamson said:

I shall be very interested to see the results from your jig.  As a matters of interest, which supplier did you use for your Z-section profile?

 

Every hour or so today I've risen from my desk to glue a few more pieces of plastic strip onto the coach sides. The jig served me very well - I just wish I weren't so messy with the glue. I'll post pictures tomorrow, if the weather holds.

 

I live in Germany, so now I'm (somewhat? mostly? who-knows?) cut off from British model shops, and forced to forage locally for supplies! I expect that you live in the UK, so my supplier probably wouldn't be much use to you.

 

However, that's not the important thing: I'm using the universally available Evergreen materials. In this case, the Z section is part no. 757, the largest Z on their website.

 

I spent quite a while designing with the smaller 755, before becoming aware that my design had silly little steps, and switching to the larger size.

 

P.S. On the Evergreen web site, and in my picture, it looks as though the Z is made of three uniform flat strips at right angles. But in fact the angles are somewhat smaller and the outer strips are a little tapered, so it is actually somewhat more like the letter Z.

Edited March 30, 2021 by TangoOscarMike
P.S.

[Chris Williamson]

Thanks Tom. I've seen a number of people make references to Evergreen now. I'll take a look. Things have clearly moved on since the days of packets of poorly cut Slater's plasticard strips.  The one and only remaining model shop here on the Isle of Man has very limited supplies of materials so I suspect that I'll be hunting on-line as and when I start coach building.

[cp409067]

3 hours ago, Chris Williamson said:

..... I've seen a number of people make references to Evergreen now. I'll take a look. Things have clearly moved on since the days of packets of poorly cut Slater's plasticard strips.  .....

 

*

I recall in the past styrene strip that seemed to have been chopped on a guilotine so that what should have been in section rectangular was a parallelogram. I have used Evergreen strip for many years and would recommend it as not suffering from the problem.

 

CP

[TangoOscarMike]

On 31/03/2021 at 02:51, cp409067 said:

I recall in the past styrene strip that seemed to have been chopped on a guilotine so that what should have been in section rectangular was a parallelogram. I have used Evergreen strip for many years and would recommend it as not suffering from the problem.

 

I also find that Evergreen plastic sticks together in an orderly manner.