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45s in east Anglia


russ p
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45s seem to have got to Norwich and possibly yarmouth in the 70s and 80s as March men knew them but did they get across in the 60s?

Often locos start new routes when particular depots learn them

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I can't comment on the 1960's, but I'm sure that you are aware that in the 45s twilight years, some were allocated to March, they were also regular visitors, and most seemed to wind up dumped in the old Whitemoor yard after they were switched off for the last time.

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One was even trialled on Norwich-Liverpool St workings in the 70's with a view to replacing the 47's!

 

Were common at Ipswich in late 70's & 80's on freights through to Parkeston, like this one returning LE to March back in 1981....

81-519.JPG.8f7c830232d009023d4b4188c0539b5a.JPG

 

Rather a vanished scene, with the postal coaches on the train in platform 4 and the Peak pulled up in platform 3 behind the 0715ish Ipswich-Liverpool St via Bury and Cambridge!

 

Edited by Johann Marsbar
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One of the main reasons March men Class 44’s and 45’s was the freight traffic from Toton to Whitemoor Yard and return.  Strangely they didn’t sign Class 46’s but not surprisingly as they normally stuck to the cross country routes.

 

I think the staple fodder for East Anglia were Class 31’s, 40’s and 47’s.

Edited by jools1959
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The 1960s were my formative trainspotting years, spent in East Anglia and during that time I never saw a "Peak" as we called them in those days.  Peterborough was the place to see a Peak and, yes, I mean a true Peak as well as others in the class.  Here's D10 at Peterborough on 9th September 1968.

 

1672564673_680909PeterboroughPeakD10TryfanK5.3.jpg.e5b16c483125fde76d510e78eeda1b67.jpg

 

Chris Turnbull

Edited by Chris Turnbull
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Based in Cambridge until about 1972, with a cut-off of real interest (though not denial) around the time blue livery came in (yuk), I never saw a Peak in East Anglia. On the GN, yes - I later learnt these were 46 - and these did get through Cambridge on diversions, or occasional KGX-CBG turns. Later on when Peaks were dumped on the old steam shed site at March, they appeared as a totally alien sight to me. Things were much more regionalised back them. East Anglia was  -we thought then - a boring place full of 31, Cravens and Derby Lightweight units. Other variants in lesser numbers were the early Met-Camm  & Wickham dmus, 24 (though moved away fairly early), 37 (LST-KLN express mainly). Localised there were some 47 on the Norwich line, 21 (very early only),  15/16, 40.

 

Stewart

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Later on than Russ's original query but the topic seems to have expanded a bit, in the mid 1908s I remember a 45 arriving at Cambridge on a Birmingham-Cambridge, which it worked back again.  Otherwise as Stewart has said, in the late 60s-early 70s the only ones we saw there were 46s occasionally on KX-Cambridges.

 

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Thanks for the replies

The evidence seems to point to march men learning them late on. 

Shame as I was tempted by the forthcoming Heljan one. 

Anyone know when the trials were on the GE mainline, I know there are pictures in diesels in East anglia but Dr Ian Allen didn't seem to record dates very well it's the same with a recent book of his photographs. 

I don't know how extensive the trial was either 

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4 minutes ago, russ p said:

Thanks for the replies

The evidence seems to point to march men learning them late on. 

Shame as I was tempted by the forthcoming Heljan one. 

Anyone know when the trials were on the GE mainline, I know there are pictures in diesels in East anglia but Dr Ian Allen didn't seem to record dates very well it's the same with a recent book of his photographs. 

I don't know how extensive the trial was either 

I threw out my old copies of the local transport magazine before I moved house, but my guess is it was possibly 1974.  I remember seeing slides of it at the school railway society meetings in either late 74 or early 75 and wasn't aware of its visit until it had gone!  I believe it wasn't the most mechanically sparkling example of the class they could have sent either.....

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4 minutes ago, Johann Marsbar said:

threw out my old copies of the local transport magazine before I moved house, but my guess is it was possibly 1974.

I worked at the old ER offices in Hamilton House between August '74 and October '74. One day one of my colleagues came into the office saying he had just seem a engine with a name on it in Liverpool Street. He was not a railway enthusiast. A quick glance out of one of the windows looking into the station did indeed show a Peak on a Norwich train. As the was the start of the working day it would have been around 09:00. That was the only time I saw a Peak on a passenger train and in those days did not carry a camera with me. That narrows the date down.

 

The only pictures I have of Peaks in East Anglia are taken from the bridge that allowed you to view the west curve from the Peterborough line to Whitemoor and an open day at Cambridge,

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1 hour ago, russ p said:

I know there are pictures in diesels in East anglia but Dr Ian Allen didn't seem to record dates very well it's the same with a recent book of his photographs. 

 

Dr Allen did not catalogue his photographs as he took them.  His marvellous collection was contained in box after box of photographs in no particular order and with few notes to say where or when they were taken.  When Bill Last and others at the Cambridge Railway Circle helped him organise his collection, which resulted in his series of books, there was no way of knowing the date.  Only special events such as the visit of the Royal Train in May 1956 could be pinpointed  with any accuracy.

 

A true gentleman and good friend sorely missed. 

 

Chris Turnbull

(Apologies for digressing from the topic) 

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18 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

I threw out my old copies of the local transport magazine before I moved house, but my guess is it was possibly 1974.  I remember seeing slides of it at the school railway society meetings in either late 74 or early 75 and wasn't aware of its visit until it had gone!  I believe it wasn't the most mechanically sparkling example of the class they could have sent either.....

From https://www.derbysulzers.com/74.html :

"Plans to move some Class 45s to the Liverpool Street - Norwich passenger workings were foreshadowed by the arrival of 45006 from Holbeck. It was noted at Ipswich on June 23rd, remaining here until the 28th when it made two crew training trips to Norwich. It then ran to Stratford, on July 1st it worked the 08.30 Liverpool Street - Norwich and 11.46 return. Arrival was eighteen minutes late, and five minutes was lost on the Up working. Examination of the locomotive at Stratford revealed it was not in the best of health, certainly not the example to use for this type of testing. The locomotive was suffering from several mechanical faults including worn tyres and a flawed axle. The Peak would spend all of July in the repair shop at Stratford."

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On 10/03/2020 at 06:53, keefer said:

From https://www.derbysulzers.com/74.html :

"Plans to move some Class 45s to the Liverpool Street - Norwich passenger workings were foreshadowed by the arrival of 45006 from Holbeck. It was noted at Ipswich on June 23rd, remaining here until the 28th when it made two crew training trips to Norwich. It then ran to Stratford, on July 1st it worked the 08.30 Liverpool Street - Norwich and 11.46 return. Arrival was eighteen minutes late, and five minutes was lost on the Up working. Examination of the locomotive at Stratford revealed it was not in the best of health, certainly not the example to use for this type of testing. The locomotive was suffering from several mechanical faults including worn tyres and a flawed axle. The Peak would spend all of July in the repair shop at Stratford."

Inter regional politics?

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43 minutes ago, w124bob said:

Inter regional politics?

I seem to remember when the visit of the 45 was being discussed shortly after its trial, that comments were being made about a steam loco (possibly also from Holbeck) that was loaned to Stratford in the 1950's and being equally no good.....

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Even just inter depot politics?

If Holbeck have to give up one of their locos, they're not going to give one of their good ones - they'll give Stratford a duffer and if it breaks down then they'll have to fix it for them!

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The only time I saw a class 45 on the Great Eastern on the mainline was a day I was on duty as a Box Boy at Manningtree Signal box( where I started my Railway career) was the was a Boat train services that ran from Harwich to some where up north but I can not remember which services it was As the Class 45 could not negotiate Manningtree North Curve so the train hand to come into the station to run round before continue it's jounery north.

 

Terry.

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1 hour ago, Johann Marsbar said:

I seem to remember when the visit of the 45 was being discussed shortly after its trial, that comments were being made about a steam loco (possibly also from Holbeck) that was loaned to Stratford in the 1950's and being equally no good.....

 

In August 1958, Kingmoor Clan 72009 was tested on the Eastern Region, being based at Stratford MPD, though a preference for the Britannias meant that this sojourn was short-lived, lasting only a month. The locomotive was utilised on services from London Liverpool Street to Norwich, Clacton, and Harwich. At first they were mistakenly allocated Class 7 duties, in which the Clans, although capable, were not able to keep to their allotted timings

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The Clans seem to have a bad reputation but was it deserved?

Or was it a case of being fired/used like Britannias and then, obviously, being found lacking?

Whereas if they were fired to suit their own character, they were good locos?

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I saw D14 on the 0745 Bradford Ex (0812 Leeds) to Yarmouth (1E51) on the GN&GE 17th June 1967, but I suspect it only went as far as March, because it returned again with the 1002 Yarmouth to Leeds and Bradford (1N11). 

 

Class 44s did appear on some Toton - Whitemoor services at that time, but by no means all of them, and after 1967 they tended to give way to pairs of 20s for the most part. 

 

Somewhere I have records from Whitemoor Junction, so I will look them out and see if any 45s turn up from the Peterborough direction. 

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I have dug out my spotting book from 1964 to 1968 to check that my memory has not been playing tricks and can confirm that what I said in my earlier post is correct.  This includes several visits to March in that period during which time I did not see any Peaks.  From the posts above it seems they did get to March but were not common and probably did not stay long.  You had to go to the ECML to see Peaks; for example, at Sandy on 9th April 1964 I recorded D178 whilst at St Neots on 5th August I noted D168 and D173.  At Peterborough on 1st September 1965 I saw D193.  I have records of several other spotting trips to the ECML when I saw no Peaks at all so they were clearly not a common sight. 

 

Chris Turnbull   

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