Signalling for Sodor

[1165Valour]

I had originally intended to ask for help signalling individual locations contained within the Railway Series, but I decided that, as there are a few others also interested in Sodor, I thought I might create one thread for Sodor signalling topics.

 

First, I wanted to ask for advice on how this location would be signalled:

 

Ffarquhar (branch line terminus)

Edited March 10, 2020 by GWRSwindon

[DavidB-AU]

The original Ffarquhar had 5 signal posts - 3 Home (one with 3 arms) and 2 Distant.

 

 

 

The replicas have been faithful in reproducing this.

 

 

 

The quarry branch seemed to have only very rudimentary fixed signals.

 

 

Cheers

David

Edited March 10, 2020 by DavidB-AU

[1165Valour]

Thanks, this is really quite helpful. I blame my poor wording for this, but I was hoping to find out how Ffarquhar should be signalled based on its layout.

[bécasse]

Given the provenance of the Isle of Sodor, I think that we can take the Isle of Man (where, admittedly, the railways were three foot and not standard gauge) as the best guide. Even Douglas, which was quite a substantial station with two arrival and two departure platforms (as opposed to your single dual-purpose one), had rudimentary signalling despite its large Dutton-provided box. Following such a guide you would only need three signals, a platform starting signal plus an advanced starting signal and home at the throat, the latter two probably combined back-to-back on the same post. There would be a fixed distant too - but off-layout. The quarry siding might well have a fixed "STOP" board, much as Awdrey (whom I knew incidentally) indicated himself - see the painting above. 

[DCB]

Not sure how one would signal this. Its a very odd layout.  very difficult to shunt.  There seem to be some additions from Rev Awdrey's original which don't make a lot of sense, The red bits on the plan below, and the blue crossover looks particularly pointless.  The run round loop using the loco shed, and indeed sidings beyond the loco shed are very unusual as is the lack of a run round in the yard bearing in mind the quarry branch and the stone cutting shed would need the wagons to be run round to be able to be shunted.  As drawn there isn't really anywhere to stick Carrie and Annabel while the quarry wagons are run round prior to shunting.  Surely some form of catch point or trap or even sand drag would be needed on the yard / quarry branch exit

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by DavidCBroad
Typo

[Aire Head]

Signalling I expect would be pretty basic. Most of the shunting moves in the station, sheds and carriage sidings could be controlled from the Signal Box.

 

The question I have is the quarry branch NWR metals or FQC?

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Aire Head said:

Signalling I expect would be pretty basic. Most of the shunting moves in the station, sheds and carriage sidings could be controlled from the Signal Box.

 

The question I have is the quarry branch NWR metals or FQC?

Quarry branch is simple - trap point and a stop signal where it  joind the main branch line and everything else is hand points.  there might be a red flag somewhere at times to show that blasting is in progress.

 

What happens at the station is a far more complicated job and it depends very much on Company and period you have in mind as the 'influence' on the way things would be done.

[1165Valour]

Here's an overall view of the yard:

 

One can see a shunting signals controlling the yard here:

[The Stationmaster]

There is no need at all for signals in the yard - it would be 100% handpoints and not the fiction of some latterday illustrator of the books.

[1165Valour]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

There is no need at all for signals in the yard - it would be 100% handpoints and not the fiction of some latterday illustrator of the books.

When it comes to trying to establish canonicity in Awdry's Railway Series, I tend to use this general principle:

 

- When Awdry's writings clash with illustrations, go with Awdry's writings,

- When an illustrator clashes with another illustrator, go with the chronologically later illustrator (Awdry famously had trouble with his first illustrator)

 

Unless otherwise specified or depending on cirmcumstances, of course.

Edited April 9, 2020 by GWRSwindon

[BritishGypsum4]

I have done a full signalling diagram for a friend of mine for Ffarquhar including a working timetable. 
It is fully signalled with the exception of a few of the lines which, going off real life examples and volunteering experience, wouldn't need to signalled.

As the quarry is no where near the station area as it is in the hills and the line (as stated in IOS) is about 5 miles away by rail as it climbs and turns on itself 180 degrees to the left then right into the quarry. For that trackplan above you would only need a signal for the tramway.
I wouldn't go off Awdry's layout photos for the above trackplan as they are not the same.

As for using the Isle of Man as a basis forget it! Awdry never used any incidents off the Isle of Man whatsoever. Rev. Awdry used real life incidents to create his wonderful stories and so my advice would be to really look up prototypes and try and get a good book that explains signalling and how it works.
The illustrations I would also give a miss with regards signalling. The position of them just looks wrong. Take the one above that shows Thomas, Daisy, Toby and Percy. That ground signal is just wrong. It shouldn't be there and is badly positioned.

That trackplan is workable but depends on how much of it you want to model (if not all of it). 

[Grovenor]

2 hours ago, BritishGypsum4 said:

I have done a full signalling diagram for a friend of mine for Ffarquhar

Then maybe you could offer it up for comment?

[BritishGypsum4]

17 hours ago, Grovenor said:

Then maybe you could offer it up for comment?

No offence but I'm not going to do that considering it was a commission.

I was asked to do it so I said yes. As my friend wanted it to be as realistic as possible that was also why I did Working Timetable and also a Method of Ops. This will give any operator an idea of what is going to happen by displaying movements on cards.

 

Anyhow some of the signalling diagram wouldn't be totally right for the trackplan that GWRSwindon is using. To suit space constraints and also to make the trackplan a little more realistic certain things were altered and hence my comment on getting a good book on signalling

[DCB]

There is no consistency in the illustrations, one shows the sheds widely spaced, with one a long way in front of the other, the second the sheds close together almost in line with each other.  The original track plan was very clever with a lot of running line and scenery in a  small space plus a continuous run for running locos etc in and a lot more operating potential than most plans, even ones twice the size.  I can see why Rev Awdrey used the three arm signal at the station throat, branch, platform and he wanted to bring goods into the loop while the platform was occupied.  Its a bit odd that some photos show a signal box and others don't,

The Knuckles plan shows the signal box on the yard / quarry line.   It needs to be on the main line, see my previous doodle, and the signalling becomes  different, probably different enough to have to essentially start again. I think the plan needs reworking to be prototypical before trying to signal it prototypically.  Or why not follow Awdrey's illustrator and dot signals around where they look pretty like maybe 90% of modellers do.

[BritishGypsum4]

On 06/04/2020 at 19:50, DavidCBroad said:

Not sure how one would signal this. Its a very odd layout.  very difficult to shunt.  There seem to be some additions from Rev Awdrey's original which don't make a lot of sense, The red bits on the plan below, and the blue crossover looks particularly pointless.  The run round loop using the loco shed, and indeed sidings beyond the loco shed are very unusual as is the lack of a run round in the yard bearing in mind the quarry branch and the stone cutting shed would need the wagons to be run round to be able to be shunted.  As drawn there isn't really anywhere to stick Carrie and Annabel while the quarry wagons are run round prior to shunting.  Surely some form of catch point or trap or even sand drag would be needed on the yard / quarry branch exit

 

The Rev. Awdry stated that there was two goods sheds at Ffarquhar. Where the red and blue lines are was one such shed, illustrated in Stepney the Bluebell Engine and badly illustrated by Spong in another publication. Completely pointless trackplan indeed.