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Ian Rathbone

GSR 800 Class - colour

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I am painting a model of 801 which is to be in the early bluey-green colour. Can anyone point me in the right direction regarding a mix or  reference for this elusive colour?

 

Ian R

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If you PM JHB71achil he should be able to  give you some information.

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The colour on the 500-class Fry Model in Malahide, and his model of No. 900, is actual paint off it. Lining was yellow and black.

 

Note, of course, that (a) Neither 900 nor the 500s ever carried it - but Cyril Fry liked it! (b) despite what’s often claimed, 800 in Cultra is CIE green, not GSR green....

 

 

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Posted (edited)

It’s a fascinating colour. Important to recall what a huge symbol of Irish prestige these must have been, emerging just after the Anglo-Irish Trade War. Hence the elaborate nameplates and perhaps that elusive colour. Blue rather than green after all is the heraldic colour of Ireland.....

Edited by Irish Padre
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Posted (edited)

Thank you for your replies. There is a video on YouTube of GW railcar No. 22, its upholstery looks like the colour I'm looking for. Any comments?

 

Regards

 

Ian R

Edited by Ian Rathbone

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Is this the colour being discussed? I have attached screenshots of the video to refer to, just incase anyone can't it find it. 

image.jpg.fcaffcc31ca26bf4cd09db139e1588ea.jpg

image.jpg.9c582aaf600eba9b69c19a0b08dae92f.jpg

Nelson.

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1 hour ago, Nelson Jackson said:

I would also assume that this is the locomotive mentioned by JB above as seen on another forum. I hope this helps! 

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/8137-malahide-opening/

 

Nelson.

Great link.  I really like those broad gauge 4-8-0T  and narrow gauge 4-6-4Ts and 4-8-0s

Did start me wondering though,  The 800s, they really did have the look of Rev Awdrey's Henry the Green engine...   I wonder if the lads at Inchicore managed to regauge one to Stephensons coal cart gauge and flog it to Sodor?    

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Nice idea but implausible for one reason. If Henry really was an Irish engine there’s no way he’d be afraid of rain!  

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THAT'S the one, Nelson. That is painted with actual GSR paint and lined the way the 800 class were. In reality, the engine above was never anything but all-grey. However, there is some evidence to suggest that the reason Cyril Fry painted two of his models in actual GSR green was that they were originally intended to go to the late Drew Donaldson, who was a friend of Fry's. In the end, for whatever reason, Fry hung onto them.

 

The 500-class loco in the collection is also, unprototypically, in this livery. Unprototypical they may be, but I am sure that all will agree they look well! I do think the green livery would have suited 900 very well.

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Slightly off-topic, but I visited the Ulster Transport Museum a couple of weeks ago (just before Lockdown !) and 800 is indeed a magnificent machine; Interesting how the loco, which only ever worked in the South, ended up in the North ?

 

The Museum at Cultra is well worth a visit, although worryingly when I was there, there were hardly any other visitors. Belfast, in general, is now a genuine tourist destination; Who would ever have thought that 25 years ago ! As well as Cultra, the Titanic Experience is a wonderful, if slightly sad, attraction.

 

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9 hours ago, caradoc said:

Slightly off-topic, but I visited the Ulster Transport Museum a couple of weeks ago (just before Lockdown !) and 800 is indeed a magnificent machine; Interesting how the loco, which only ever worked in the South, ended up in the North ?


 

 

Probably because the only transport museum at the time was in the north.

 

It is a beautiful loco.

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Yes, 800 is a great beast indeed!

 

Pity she didn’t last longer. If diesels had never been invented she’d have worked probably until about 1985 or 1990........

 

She is preserved in the CIE green she carried after 1945 rather than GSR green. (Thus, the “G  S” on the tender, which was applied by the museum, is incorrect).

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Slightly off topic but related to the note above re Mr Fry’s use of actual GSR green when painting the model.

 

Many years ago I was lucky enough to spend some time with Fred Graham in Belfast.

 

I always thought he was something of a pioneer in his modelling activity, with a large collection of scratchbuilt GN  locos (clockwork powered!) and stock.

 

He did pretty much everything himself including the painting.  His materials for the latter included a tin of “actual GNR blue” - not sure whether he got it from someone at the sheds near him or whether Paddy at Dundalk workshops might have been the source.

Anyway, he swore by the stuff, though I did hear comments from other quarters that maybe it was a little dark on a 7mm scale model.

My memory is a bit hazy now but I think, after his death, Fred’s collection was dispersed amongst a number of modellers.

This, in contrast to Drew’s collection of similar vintage,  which I think (though I could be wrong) lives in a glass case at Cultra.

Apologies for wandering from the original topic - it was just that note about the use of actual paint on a model and the scaling issues it may present.

 

Adrian

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It can be difficult to get the right colour, many times i mix my own.

when you get a colour you are happy with then you should always be happy with it.

sometimes you buy a model and you think the colour is not quite right you have to put

up with it or repaint.

Photographs can really lead you up the garden path and restored railways but you have to

start somewhere.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Lissadell said:

Slightly off topic but related to the note above re Mr Fry’s use of actual GSR green when painting the model.

 

Many years ago I was lucky enough to spend some time with Fred Graham in Belfast.

 

I always thought he was something of a pioneer in his modelling activity, with a large collection of scratchbuilt GN  locos (clockwork powered!) and stock.

 

He did pretty much everything himself including the painting.  His materials for the latter included a tin of “actual GNR blue” - not sure whether he got it from someone at the sheds near him or whether Paddy at Dundalk workshops might have been the source.

Anyway, he swore by the stuff, though I did hear comments from other quarters that maybe it was a little dark on a 7mm scale model.

My memory is a bit hazy now but I think, after his death, Fred’s collection was dispersed amongst a number of modellers.

This, in contrast to Drew’s collection of similar vintage,  which I think (though I could be wrong) lives in a glass case at Cultra.

Apologies for wandering from the original topic - it was just that note about the use of actual paint on a model and the scaling issues it may present.

 

Adrian

Indeed Adrian. Fred was one of my childhood heroes and a friend of Drew’s - although the two of them could not have been more different! Fred sold his models c1995. My father bought an SLNC Lough Class, an old U and an S class, plus a QL. The latter he since gave away, but the first three are on loan to Headhunters in Enniskillen. Drew’s collection is under glass - a friend took these pics just before the museums all locked down...

E418160B-A472-4E31-999F-1EBD14B05073.jpeg

B543DD1B-BD46-4E8A-B643-7B8EBB7595BB.jpeg

Edited by Irish Padre
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That’s brilliant - thank you for sharing.

I remember Mark the curator showing me round the exhibits at Cultra and your photos of Drew’s locos brings it all back.

 

I’d forgotten the name of the place in Enniskillen, though I remember it is up the road past the Cathedral on the right.

 

I “converted” several of Fred’s locos to standard “two rail electric” operation - perhaps one or two of them found their way to Headhunters?  Is there a PPs around? - if so, it’s likely my design and build.

 

sorry, must stop, have really hijacked this thread.  I apologise to the original poster.

 

Adrian

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I enjoyed many a running session at Drew's house when I was a student at Queens.  Control of clockwork locomotives was down to a fine art. Knowledge of the locomotive and the number of coaches or wagons meant you could calculate how many "boxes of coal" it required. Give the loco the correct number of "boxes" (turns of the key) and it would accelerate smoothly away and come to rest at the desired location.  A joy to watch.

 

Get the number of boxes wrong and you heard some of Drew's extended vocabulary.

 

He was a wonderful man in both the model railway world and in the RPSI.

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Back to the topic! I've sprayed the main body colour but the next problem is the cab interior colour. What colour is the underside of the roof, ditto cab walls? I assume CIE would have continued the GSR scheme so the preserved 800 cab colour would be correct. Can anyone help out please?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Regards

 

Ian R

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Yes. The colours inside it in its current CIE livery were the same internally - mid-brown lower, dark cream upper.

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Here are a few photos of Fry's Class 800, the photos were white balanced and levelled in photoshop which gives a good visual representation of the colour;-

 

715602080_101Class800Loc-01IMAG4760.jpg.9e0cab8a886096abf9e98837a554090c.jpg

 

1294015044_101Class800Loc-02IMAG4771.jpg.870ffb275279a8f28ca80fd8075a2786.jpg

 

1187436741_101Class800Loc-05IMAG4772.jpg.3cfc45f6cbaac51e426bacd8b64c4897.jpg

768035928_101Class800Tender-09IMAG4779.jpg.c99382088391ff9e266fb9fa4f774dde.jpg

 

Eoin

 

 

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15 hours ago, Ian Rathbone said:

Back to the topic! I've sprayed the main body colour but the next problem is the cab interior colour. What colour is the underside of the roof, ditto cab walls? I assume CIE would have continued the GSR scheme so the preserved 800 cab colour would be correct. Can anyone help out please?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Regards

 

Ian R

 

Apologies for the poor quality, my son took this photo of me in the cab of 800 at Cultra:

 

 

2020 03 11 800 at Cultra.jpg

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Here are a few photos of the cab interior;-

 

1767229003_CabFallPlate-01IMG_4949.jpg.2e4cca105f53cf3b80bb21fe30eebcb6.jpg

 

1578736865_CabTender-01IMG_4934.jpg.b9573ce3cb622007d79424ed2bbf9f62.jpg

 

1638987503_CabTender-02IMG_4935.jpg.06db99fcb1064b9ca9778cfb518d96eb.jpg

 

188538251_CabTender-03IMG_4937.jpg.281f4ee5a6cf1efdb26bc7a7e8063545.jpg

 

933307816_Cab-01IMG_4924.jpg.5682cf876281fee53735840cc95c02a1.jpg

 

1628775752_Cab-02IMG_4925.jpg.5d039216eed95cf1d48e8ed73e04b3f1.jpg

 

863198311_Cab-03IMG_4926.jpg.be35133f8926cc1d8503809ea2a52c60.jpg

 

1878805037_Cab-04IMG_4927.jpg.9843ecbf4e375de5dd1b5b72db148926.jpg

 

576821488_Cab-05IMG_4928.jpg.69f81ececf8f282cb06d1c5ddfcc497e.jpg

 

599160480_Cab-06IMG_4929.jpg.d232f1a5ec50e7c752f26458ca05364a.jpg

 

Eoin

 

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......and if one is modelling as per the Cultra 1:1 model- don't forget to include some patrons attempts at fulling her up!

 

1655248058_Firebox-00IMG_4946.jpg.18a5568f8df5ff1ca5c090a280346fca.jpg

 

Eoin

 

 

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