Worst looking locomotive topic. Antidote to Best Looking Locomotive topic.

[The Johnster]

9 hours ago, EddieB said:

It looks like an outside framed 0-6-0, probably taken from a photo of a Hungarian MAV class 326.

 

Or MAV class 341.

 

The blue thing to the right isn't what you'd call pretty, either.

[Vistisen]

On 19/03/2020 at 10:28, Zomboid said:

I'm not an aerodynamicist, but I had heard that up to about 80mph it doesn't make much difference as the rolling resistance is dominant.

Danish trains do not have to go fast as the stations are so close together. The IC3 has a top speed 85mph. Every time I'm in one rattling along with its noisy underfloor motors vibrating cups off tables at about 60 mph I think back to the for me, magical wafting of a MkIII at 125mph in the 1970s on the trip down to Plymouth.

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Vistisen

[EddieB]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

The blue thing to the right isn't what you'd call pretty, either.

The car? Yes, hatchbacks are pretty ugly!

[SRman]

4 hours ago, Vistisen said:

Danish trains do not have to go fast as the stations are so close together. The IC3 has a top speed 85mph. Every time I'm in one rattling along with its noisy underfloor motors vibrating cups off tables at about 60 mph I think back to the for me, magical wafting of a MkIII at 125mph in the 1970s on the trip down to Plymouth.

 

The DSB IC3 and IR4 units go up to 180 kph (that's around 112 mph). My own experience with rides on two different IC3 units between Copenhagen and Hamburg were that they were quiet and smooth (underfloor engines notwithstanding), and a whole lot faster and smoother than our Australian trains.

[kevinlms]

12 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The blue thing to the right isn't what you'd call pretty, either.

And all the buildings in the background of the top photo!

[EddieB]

On a less frivolous note, I wouldn't describe the colour on this locomotive as blue* - the green paint from when it was first restored to represent an earlier condition having faded into a turquoise.  Anyway, this is MAV 382,007 restored as XIId no. 480 (built by StEG 1765/1883).  While not the epitome of beauty, I would neither consider this locomotive, nor either of the previous outside-framed 0-6-0s worthy of belonging in this thread.

 

(*The true colour is chocolate - as of course Green and Blacks make chocolate!)

 

[kevinlms]

How about 08 898 after it's modifications, after hitting the low bridge on the Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley Railway?

 

There is a photo on page    in the 'Worst looking locomotive' section.

[Vistisen]

17 hours ago, SRman said:

The DSB IC3 and IR4 units go up to 180 kph (that's around 112 mph). My own experience with rides on two different IC3 units between Copenhagen and Hamburg were that they were quiet and smooth (underfloor engines notwithstanding), and a whole lot faster and smoother than our Australian trains.

I have a link to a recent map (2017) showing the maximum line speeds. https://www.bane.dk/-/media/Bane/Jernbanevirksomhed/Netredegoerelse/2018/Bilag-2018/3_3F-Hastighed-paa-Banedanmarks-jernbanenet.pdf But this is not the same as the operational speed, which like in the UK, is hampered by regional trains sharing the same lines, This plus the fact that a lot of trains split up ( or join together if going towards Copenhagen) into/from sections at Fredericia, normally into three different trains means that there are very often delays. My son who travels home to us by train counts on getting a free ticket ( because he is delayed by more than an hour) roughly every other time! I too have had some fine trips, but I have also had the experience ( in first class) of the table shaking so much that my laptop fell off. Mind you I did get a free bottle of wine, The steward said hot coffee was too dangerous :-) The section from Vejle to Horsens is steep, twisty and good fun if the driver is trying to make up time,

Edited April 6, 2020 by Vistisen

[Pacific231G]

On 02/04/2020 at 02:11, The Johnster said:

 

 

This, and the similar King streamlining, is according to some sources the result of a request to Collett's drawing office from marketing and publicity, as they felt that the GW was losing out to the LMS and LNER's streamliners in terms of image, despite the company being able to claim the fastest scheduled timetable train in the world with an average speed Swindon-Paddington of 86mph.  This was of course in itself a bit of a cheat, a limited load with a Castle at a time of day unlikely to cause delays from other traffic.  A good deal of GW express running was quite 'pedestrian', and to be fair so were the LMS's and LNER's

 

It does seem that Collett did not take the request particularly seriously, and the myth that this was a sort of joke to show the publicity boys what his opinion was, but it was done 'properly' in sheet steel and may have been at least a semi-serious effort; I doubt the costs would have been signed off otherwise.

It was a form of streamlining adopted by the PLM in France for their 4-8-2 "Mountains" and based on work In the 1920s, by Professor Prandtl of Göttingen who studied the air resistance of railway vehicles including locomotives. The locos were rapidly nicknamed "Cigars"

 

The streamlining on Collett's Castle is very consistent with that applied by the PLM including the V shaped cab front that the French company used even in the absence of any other streamlining. It also seems designed to avoid the problem of maintenance access that more extreme forms of streamlining entailed. I'd bet it spent a good few hours with a dynamometer car on its tail.

 

It's a moot point to what extent streamlining really was about saving coal and achieving higher speeds and how much it was about being seen to be part of "streamline moderne" design. Even in the 1930s, the arrival of cars and aeroplanes were giving the railways an image problem (Obsolete Victorian technology ill fitting a sleek modern era)  and road transport an associated and  potentally existential problem. 

[DavidB-AU]

1 hour ago, Pacific231G said:

It's a moot point to what extent streamlining really was about saving coal and achieving higher speeds and how much it was about being seen to be part of "streamline moderne" design. Even in the 1930s, the arrival of cars and aeroplanes were giving the railways an image problem (Obsolete Victorian technology ill fitting a sleek modern era)  and road transport an associated and  potentally existential problem. 

 

A case in point being the Tasmanian R class which was fitted with streamlining in 1937 in the style of the Victorian Railways S class. It had literally no benefit as they had a maximum speed of 50 mph and much of the journey between Hobart and Launceston was grinding around curves at 30mph or less. It was purely a marketing exercise but caused problems for maintenance and the streamlining was removed in 1940.

 

 

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Pacific231G said:

It was a form of streamlining adopted by the PLM in France for their 4-8-2 "Mountains" and based on work In the 1920s, by Professor Prandtl of Göttingen who studied the air resistance of railway vehicles including locomotives. The locos were rapidly nicknamed "Cigars"

 

The streamlining on Collett's Castle is very consistent with that applied by the PLM including the V shaped cab front that the French company used even in the absence of any other streamlining. It also seems designed to avoid the problem of maintenance access that more extreme forms of streamlining entailed. I'd bet it spent a good few hours with a dynamometer car on its tail.

 

It's a moot point to what extent streamlining really was about saving coal and achieving higher speeds and how much it was about being seen to be part of "streamline moderne" design. Even in the 1930s, the arrival of cars and aeroplanes were giving the railways an image problem (Obsolete Victorian technology ill fitting a sleek modern era)  and road transport an associated and  potentally existential problem. 

Prior to the Great War, there was a general perception of railways as being at the cutting edge of technology and engineering, but this shifted to aircraft, including airships, after that war.  This, along with the space industry (after all that really is rocket science), largely remains the case.

Edited April 7, 2020 by The Johnster

[DavidB-AU]

Back to ugly. I generally quite like the shape of the EMD SD70, but the SD70ACS developed for Saudi Arabia looks very ugly to me. The massive filters to keep fine sand out of the innards makes them look like Imperial Star Destroyers.

 

 

[rodent279]

On 18/03/2020 at 20:54, phil_sutters said:

I always thought that the loco in this photo in Dad's albums was a bit weird until I saw some of the monstrosities above

If I'm not mistaken, that has two Crosti feedwater preheaters, one either side of the boiler.

[rodent279]

 

Now to some this will be a fugly, to me is a beaut. Italian Crosti boiler 2-8-0, operational. On the bucket list for a railtour one day.

[EddieB]

1 hour ago, rodent279 said:

If I'm not mistaken, that has two Crosti feedwater preheaters, one either side of the boiler.

Yes, it’s an FS class 623 2-6-0, one of thirty-five rebuilds from class 625 (1952-54).  They were fitted with two feedwater barrels, one either side of the boiler.  They were unsuccessful (little wonder, perhaps) and the last was withdrawn in 1970.  Sadly, none were preserved.

 

The loco pictured was itself a conversion from the earlier class 600 in the early ‘thirties, retaining its original cab (larger cut outs), but fitted with Capriotti valve gear.  (Were it possible to read the number I might be able to provide specific information).

 

Like so many examples on this thread, these ungainly locomotives would make an attractive model.  From what I can see, Rivarossi made one, but a better example comes from Oskar. (I know little about these products).

 

 

[whart57]

11 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

It's a moot point to what extent streamlining really was about saving coal and achieving higher speeds and how much it was about being seen to be part of "streamline moderne" design. Even in the 1930s, the arrival of cars and aeroplanes were giving the railways an image problem (Obsolete Victorian technology ill fitting a sleek modern era)  and road transport an associated and  potentally existential problem. 

 

As an example of that compare the electric multiple units introduced by Netherlands Railways in 1924

 

 

and the diesel multiple units introduced with much fanfare in 1935

 

 

The streamlining - and the silver livery - were a statement of modernity and a break with the "old technology" of steam rather than a technological necessity. By contrast the 1924 electrics were more or less standard coaches with motors, cabs and pantographs.

[whart57]

These Frichs diesels weren't really beauties either

 

 

but they were at the forefront of loco design. In 1932 they were at the head of one of the world's first long haul expresses to move away from steam traction, the international express from Bangkok to Kuala Lumpur and Singapore

[Pacific231G]

12 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

Back to ugly. I generally quite like the shape of the EMD SD70, but the SD70ACS developed for Saudi Arabia looks very ugly to me. The massive filters to keep fine sand out of the innards makes them look like Imperial Star Destroyers.

 

 

In the 1930s the other main design movement compeitng with "streamline moderne"  was functionalism so I guess these are an example of that. 

However beauty and ugliness are in the eye of the beholder. I can well remember as a child walking each Sunday on the way to church past a battleship grey car with flat sides that I was told was a "utility car". I thought it the most hideous object I'd ever seen. Many years later I realised that it was a Citroen 2CV  and I'd now find it utterly charming.  

[runs as required]

7 hours ago, EddieB said:

Like so many examples on this thread, these ungainly locomotives would make an attractive model.  From what I can see, Rivarossi made one, but a better example comes from Oskar. (I know little about these products).

Is that the place in Verona?

I missed one of these Beauts by Rivarossi on Ebay for £80, and called the Oskar shop in Verona where they make to order for £400 - even I couldn't really justify for such a distinctive Iti steamer. 

 

What I realise I love is Difference !

Standard is Boring

The book that introduced me to Difference was the Pictorial Encyclopaedia of Railways by Hamilton Ellis, Hamlyns, London 1968

I see I paid 36/6 for it onHome leave from Malawi and Zambia - and looked at it over and over in the next 2 year tour.  it is where I found out about all the different 'looks' to loks by different designers - Great Book !

[EddieB]

While looking what was available, I saw an Oskar example that had recently sold on a Dutch auction site (as opposed to a “dutch auction” site?) for £216.

[Adam88]

Have we had this one yet?

 

By Unknown author - old image, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=24457432

 

[Pacific231G]

40 minutes ago, Adam88 said:

Have we had this one yet?

 

By Unknown author - old image, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=24457432

 

The Etat's 230 800 (i.e a 4-6-0) was designed to work with a streamlined train of coaches known as saucissons, for fairly obvous reasons. There are a whole collection of examples of such attempts here

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/06/20/the-future-is-streamlined-locomotives-welcome-to-the-1930s/

some of which make this look positively normal. A problem with streamlining trains is that, unlike say aircraft, they are very long which makes the drag from the coaches far more significant than any saving from the shape of the front of the loco. Drag is also caused by the turbulence creaed by all the gubbins  under each  coach and the gaps between them. The catch  is that if you add skirts covering the "stuff" beneath to reduce that turbulence you also increase the surface area of each coach and that also creates drag.

French railways were fairly obsessive about reducing coal consumption because decent steam coal  was fairly absent from their coalfields and much of it was imported from South Wales making it relatiively more expensive. André Chapelon in particular, was probably correctly convinced that the smooth flow of steam inside a locomotive was far more important  than the smoother flow of air outside, Unforutnately using less coal was far less valuable to the publicity department than looking modern and streamlines.

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, Adam88 said:

Have we had this one yet?

 

By Unknown author - old image, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=24457432

 

 

I think I'm going to be sick....

 

 

[newbryford]

Not too sure about this one - a Baldwin RF16 "Shark"

 

Looks like something from "Chuggington"

 

 

[truffy]

I agree that the Q1 is beautifully ugly. So designed for its time and purpose that it’s a classic. 
 

As for truly ugly, then I’d suggest anything from the US.