Exhibition cancellations (not much to do with that anymore!)

[Oldddudders]

Carrying that round an exhibition should net you a lot of friends. 

[andyman7]

51 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Even if I were convinced by advance publicity, anything with restricted entry arrangements that meant I could only stay for an hour or two would severely reduce the distance I'd be willing to travel.

 

John

The arrangements for museums and exhibitions I've been to mean that you have to enter at a particular time slot but are free to stay as long as you want. 

[4630]

7 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Buy one of these - holds 20 yards of Peco track also.

 

Brit15

‘Superboo’ has to be a misprint.

 

’Superbog’ surely. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

4 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Use of QR codes and other tech can surely make the admission process one that doesn't require human checking. 

I've been to some National Trust properties in the last few weeks. Although we had pre-booked timed tickets there was no need to scan as at all the places wheee a ticket was needed the sraff had a list of all those booked and the arrival times. Nowhere did we have more than two people in front of us, generally straight in.

[AY Mod]

33 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Buy one of these - holds 20 yards of Peco track also.

 

 

Brit15

 

We're not booking you for Santa's grotto this year.

[Gilbert]

4 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

We're not booking you for Santa's grotto this year.

Bl**dy mods...no fun...

[Matt C]

On 19/07/2020 at 14:21, Mattc6911 said:

 

 

I have seen the future of model rail exhibition entrance ways.  

 

 

 

 

We brought you the above, and now we present the latest in our 'social distancing safety pack '

For the discerning exhibition attendee

 

 

 

 

[Bonafide]

3 hours ago, DutyDruid said:

Fareham Railex (10,000 sq ft, approx 30 layouts):

• Sat hours 10 to 6 = 8 hours
• Sunday hours 10 to 5 = 9 hours
• Total 17 hours open to the public.

 

Your calculation appears to be based upon incorrect information.

 

Surely, the Sunday opening hours from 10 to 5 = 7 hours, not 9 hours, thereby making a total of 15 hours, not 17 hours. 

[DutyDruid]

46 minutes ago, Bonafide said:

 

Your calculation appears to be based upon incorrect information.

 

Surely, the Sunday opening hours from 10 to 5 = 7 hours, not 9 hours, thereby making a total of 15 hours, not 17 hours. 

 

No, I missed something from the explanation.  Sat opening is from 10 to 6 and Sun opening from 10 to 5.  What I hadn't stated is the necessary hour or so for briefing and orientation of the hired help each day, including the evacuation process and the actions to be taken in the event of a medical emergency, that's where the extra hour each day crept it - it was noted in the spreadsheet I used to construct the list but I didn't transcribe the explanation when I wrote the post.  In my defence it's been a long day.

 

And yes, earlier this year I was at an exhibition as an exhibitor where - as a medic - I was called on to assist in a cardiac recus and then do the evacuation when the ambulance crew turned up because the organising club stewards hadn't take charge of the crowd control aspects of the situation.  Stewarding isn't as straightforward as it is made out.  That hour of orientation and briefing is very necessary if you want things to work when the wheels fall off!

[Mike Bellamy]

17 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

 . . . hundreds of organisations (universities, conference centres, hotels, training centres etc) who rely on selling event 'spaces' are turning their full attention on getting back to business,

 

16 hours ago, woodenhead said:

 . . . . many exhibitions will be denied suitable premises to host whilst schools, colleges & leisure centres cope with restrictions placed upon them.

 

Two local examples (and the first is why the Derby Exhibition is already cancelled for next year)

 

Derby College has closed the Derby Roundhouse for all outside events until further notice. The Roundhouse during the week is a large social space for students to meet and also includes their catering area which all has to be cleared Friday night. We also made use of the library and again in there the staff had to move all the tables and mobile bookshelves to create the space we needed. Now they  want to make more use of the space for the benefit of the students - perhaps more teaching space - and have probably decided that the additional costs of cleaning and sanitising everything before students come back on Monday is not worth the additions costs.

 

I retired last year from the administrative offices of the University of Derby and friends who have been working at home since March have been told that their large open plan office is being converted into additional teaching spaces so that students can be taught in smaller 'bubbles'. 

 

 

15 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 . . . .  most shows have a 66/33 split Saturday to Sunday

 

Andy - I would normally agree with you (best not to argue with the Boss!) but we were rather surprised to find that our local village hall show last October had slightly more visitors Sunday than on Saturday - it always has been a show with a lot of local families popping in for an hour as somewhere to go for the kids but as you say Saturday has always been busier.

.

[AY Mod]

10 minutes ago, Mike Bellamy said:

we were rather surprised to find that our local village hall show last October had slightly more visitors Sunday than on Saturday - it always has been a show with a lot of local families popping in for an hour as somewhere to go for the kids

 

Where that does happen I take it to be a good sign that the event and the hobby is appealing to 'new blood' rather than the diehards - maybe a knock-on from TV exposure at that time of year. Given the choice I'd always go on a Sunday to avoid queues and crowds but I'm a watcher rather than a shopper.

[DutyDruid]

Just to pick up on the idea of advanced ticketing that got mentioned yesterday, I've spoken to my lad who works for an organisation called www.damgoodmedia.com.  They do all sorts of Gucci stuff for the live music industry including providing feeds to search engines through something called gigseekr and to organisations like Ticketmaster.  He tells me that typically the "fee" for doing advanced ticketing is 10%, he thinks plus banking charges, so a £10 ticket will probably only deliver about £8.50 to the organisers.

 

I had a look last evening and I found an organisation called eventbright.co.uk that could be useful and unlike some of the bigger players they seem to support ticketing for "free" events and have a higher level of community engagement.

 

Depending on how this all pans out, if we do find ourselves having to adapt the way we do business I think this could be something the medium sized shows will have to seriously think about.

[BoD]

16 minutes ago, DutyDruid said:

I had a look last evening and I found an organisation called eventbright.co.uk that could be useful and unlike some of the bigger players they seem to support ticketing for "free" events and have a higher level of community engagement.

 

Depending on how this all pans out, if we do find ourselves having to adapt the way we do business I think this could be something the medium sized shows will have to seriously think about.

 

Eventbright is the booking organisation used by the National Trust as The Signalengineer alluded to previously.  It seems efficient and operates in a way that lends itself to exhibitions etc. by providing a printout of names, entry times  and details - track and trace done for you automatically.  I've no idea about their costs though.

[CloggyDog]

5 minutes ago, BoD said:

 

Eventbright is the booking organisation used by the National Trust as The Signalengineer alluded to previously.  It seems efficient and operates in a way that lends itself to exhibitions etc. by providing a printout of names, entry times  and details - track and trace done for you automatically.  I've no idea about their costs though.

 

One of the steampunk groups I'm involved in use TicketTailor for their advance/online ticketing. Like Eventbrite, they do charge a fee per ticket sold (even those sold on the door/day).

 

To give an idea, the comparison of costs is:

 

TicketTailor 

flat 50p per ticket sold

 

Eventbrite: United Kingdom
Essential package: 3.5% + £0.49 per sold ticket
Professional package: 6.5% + £0.49 per sold ticket

Tickets at the door: £0.50 per sold ticket

 

Both offer apps to install on smart phones/tablets to scan paper or electronic tickets. 

 

 

Another option might be to only accept card payments for door entry/club sales/etc, using one of the various card readers - my other half uses iZettle for her small crafting business, they offer low commission rates. Other card readers are available.

 

Given the gradual shift away from cash anyway, it does start to make sense for smaller clubs/traders to accept card payments - at the 3 shows I've regularly staffed the door at, in recent years there has been a growing number of visitor who'd prefer to pay their entry by card (mix of families/locals and modellers), so why not offer the option instead of directing the visitor to the nearest cashpoint (which may not be all that near!?)

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

I saw something interesting discussed on the TV this morning: a quick daily test.

On days when you intend to go out, do a self-test before breakfast then check the result afterwards. If you show positive, you stay at home. It would reduce those going out who have been infected for a few days before any symptoms show up.

It's not bulletproof but nothing is. It is a step in the right direction though. The only problem is trusting that everyone else has done it or finding a way to show you have passed. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

2 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I saw something interesting discussed on the TV this morning: a quick daily test.

On days when you intend to go out, do a self-test before breakfast then check the result afterwards. If you show positive, you stay at home. It would reduce those going out who have been infected for a few days before any symptoms show up.

It's not bulletproof but nothing is. It is a step in the right direction though. The only problem is trusting that everyone else has done it or finding a way to show you have passed. 

Also the slight problem that it represents a 100 times increase in the testing capacity currently available.

[Pete the Elaner]

4 minutes ago, CloggyDog said:

 

One of the steampunk groups I'm involved in use TicketTailor for their advance/online ticketing. Like Eventbrite, they do charge a fee per ticket sold (even those sold on the door/day).

 

To give an idea, the comparison of costs is:

 

TicketTailor 

flat 50p per ticket sold

 

Eventbrite: United Kingdom
Essential package: 3.5% + £0.49 per sold ticket
Professional package: 6.5% + £0.49 per sold ticket

Tickets at the door: £0.50 per sold ticket

 

Both offer apps to install on smart phones/tablets to scan paper or electronic tickets. 

 

 

Another option might be to only accept card payments for door entry/club sales/etc, using one of the various card readers - my other half uses iZettle for her small crafting business, they offer low commission rates. Other card readers are available.

 

Given the gradual shift away from cash anyway, it does start to make sense for smaller clubs/traders to accept card payments - at the 3 shows I've regularly staffed the door at, in recent years there has been a growing number of visitor who'd prefer to pay their entry by card (mix of families/locals and modellers), so why not offer the option instead of directing the visitor to the nearest cashpoint (which may not be all that near!?)

 

 

 

I asked about this at the beginning of the lockdown & when last checked, it cost an organisation about £30 for a card reader, which does not make financial sense for many clubs or small organisations.

However, with the recent increase in preference for card payments, I can see these charges & arrangements changing rapidly, so it is definitely worth re-checking regularly.

[jonny777]

16 hours ago, Mattc6911 said:

 

 

We brought you the above, and now we present the latest in our 'social distancing safety pack '

For the discerning exhibition attendee

 

 

 

 

 

I believe rucksack wearers who turn around a lot had already sorted that distancing problem. 

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

Just now, Joseph_Pestell said:

Also the slight problem that it represents a 100 times increase in the testing capacity currently available.

 

Maybe not right now, but sin 4-6 months, who knows?

It could make things like exhibitions a more viable proposition?

 

I have always maintained that we need to be open-minded to other developments as well as a vaccine. This is an idea which I found intriguing.

[CloggyDog]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I asked about this at the beginning of the lockdown & when last checked, it cost an organisation about £30 for a card reader, which does not make financial sense for many clubs or small organisations.

However, with the recent increase in preference for card payments, I can see these charges & arrangements changing rapidly, so it is definitely worth re-checking regularly.

 

At each of the 3 shows I 'doored' last year (for separate organisations), that £30 outlay would have been recouped there and then by potential visitors who wanted to pay at the door by card and couldn't, so decided to go elsewhere. Add in potential extra spend at club/society's own stall/second hand and it quickly becomes a no-brainer.

 

The cheapest card reader currently is £20 (with a 1.75% transaction fee), most of the rest are £30 for the reader and 1.69-1.75% per transaction.

[BokStein]

 

14 hours ago, DutyDruid said:

 

No, I missed something from the explanation.  Sat opening is from 10 to 6 and Sun opening from 10 to 5.  What I hadn't stated is the necessary hour or so for briefing and orientation of the hired help each day, including the evacuation process and the actions to be taken in the event of a medical emergency, that's where the extra hour each day crept it - it was noted in the spreadsheet I used to construct the list but I didn't transcribe the explanation when I wrote the post.  In my defence it's been a long day.

 

 

But your figures still don't add up:

 

10:00 -> 6pm (i.e. 18:00) = 8 hours so, with your extra hour's briefing before opening, is this not 9 hours?

[DutyDruid]

21 hours ago, DutyDruid said:

• Sat hours 10 to 6 = 8 hours
• Sunday hours 10 to 5 = 9 hours
• Total 17 hours open to the public.
• My festival and exhibition experience suggests that in order to give breaks and down time I'm going to need 10 paid stewards which equates to 170 man hours
• Rule of thumb based on dealing with Security at Festivals: they will cost me something close to £20 per hour to buy in (assuming that they earn close to "Living Wage") so cost to me is going to be a minimum of £3400.
• Gate of 1500 paying + 1000 "free children" (which if what I see here is true I can expect to fall dramatically, but we'll stick with it for the example)
• £3400 spread over 1500 paying tickets in round terms is around £2.25 extra per ticket

 

15 hours ago, DutyDruid said:

 

No, I missed something from the explanation.  Sat opening is from 10 to 6 and Sun opening from 10 to 5.  What I hadn't stated is the necessary hour or so for briefing and orientation of the hired help each day, including the evacuation process and the actions to be taken in the event of a medical emergency, that's where the extra hour each day crept it - it was noted in the spreadsheet I used to construct the list but I didn't transcribe the explanation when I wrote the post.  In my defence it's been a long day.

 

 

16 minutes ago, BokStein said:

But your figures still don't add up:

 

10:00 -> 6pm (i.e. 18:00) = 8 hours so, with your extra hour's briefing before opening, is this not 9 hours?

 

For the avoidance of doubt:

• Orientation on Saturday is 0900 to 1000 - 1 hour
• Open time Saturday is 1000 to 1800 - 8 hours
• Orientation on Sunday is 0900 to 1000 - 1 hour
• Open time Sunday is 1000 to 1700 - 7 hours
• 1 + 8 +1 + 7 = 17 hours.  This is what I put in the original post as the total time required.

The mistake I made in the original post was that I accidentally (and stupidly because I should have rechecked before I hit "post") added the two orientation hours on to Sunday's hours.  As I said, yesterday was a long day.

[andyman7]

3 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I asked about this at the beginning of the lockdown & when last checked, it cost an organisation about £30 for a card reader, which does not make financial sense for many clubs or small organisations.

However, with the recent increase in preference for card payments, I can see these charges & arrangements changing rapidly, so it is definitely worth re-checking regularly.

 

1 hour ago, CloggyDog said:

 

At each of the 3 shows I 'doored' last year (for separate organisations), that £30 outlay would have been recouped there and then by potential visitors who wanted to pay at the door by card and couldn't, so decided to go elsewhere. Add in potential extra spend at club/society's own stall/second hand and it quickly becomes a no-brainer.

 

The cheapest card reader currently is £20 (with a 1.75% transaction fee), most of the rest are £30 for the reader and 1.69-1.75% per transaction.

£20-£30 does not strike me as an unassailable cost for a small club given that a model railway loco costs four or five times that

Edited September 8, 2020 by andyman7

[DutyDruid]

12 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

 

£20-£30 does not strike me as an unassailable cost for a small club given that a model railway loco costs four or five times that

That got a "friendly.supportive" from me but truthfully , I don't think cost is the problem anymore. 

 

The hassle is the paperwork and the governance that a financial institution will require from a club in order to make sure that money laundering isn't taking place; GDPR also has a large part to play.

 

We (Fareham) are lucky, we are a CIO (i.e. a charity) because of having to rent a Clubroom from the council.  That means we are a "body corporate" and are regulated by the Charity Commission (they inspect our accounts and so on).  Unfortunately, my experience of working with other small "membership" organisations is that the old fashioned "Treasurer's Account" that we all used to thrive on is becoming increasingly subject to intense scrutiny and hoops are being put up that must be jumped through for even simple stuff, to the point that finding a volunteer to be treasurer is becoming increasingly hard (unless they have an accountancy background).  Also, I do think it's only a matter of time before HMRC takes what we will all see as an "unhealthy interest" in the finances of an exhibition and if everything isn't just tiddly - as a couple of small traders have found out to their cost in recent years - there will be hell to pay.  Oh, and then there's the tax position too; as a CIO we're ok because as long as the Charity Commission sees our accounts each year HMRC will - for the most part - leave us alone, but an unincorporated club could well find itself with a very unexpected tax bill and the cost of fighting the appeal or funding the defence of an investigation.

 

And GDPR?  One of the "hobbies" I have indulged in since retiring has been the introduction of card payments at the local sailing club bar that I ran for 7 years.  There the mountain of crud we had to deal with in order to use wireless (WiFi) PDQ machines (card readers) got so complex that with so many "non-compliances" against our returns to one of the banks involved we simply sent them back and got wired ones.  Granted, iZettle and the like have made things a lot easier because of the technology they use for comms but I still think there are a lot of poo-traps out there for the unwary to fall into.

 

Elliott

 

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, DutyDruid said:

 wireless (WiFi) PDQ machines (card readers)

 

Do they still call them that?

 

I remember when they were first introduced, the team that worked for the bank's merchant services installing these were just down the corridor from me.  A big change from the old manual swipe machines and three part (customer, merchant, bank) vouchers