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Exhibition cancellations (not much to do with that anymore!)


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6 minutes ago, David Bigcheeseplant said:

I think when shows do get back to being run the whole aspect of organizing them will probably have to be done from scratch, I can see layouts and trade who where due to attend having to be contacted again and all the booking form adjusted for new requirements etc. At the moment I really can't see many if any shows taking place in 2021, until someone puts on a show I think many exhibition manager will just sit tight, it, once shows prove to be viable there will be a lag while layouts and traders are re booked.  

 

Our small Risex show vin February will not take place although may happen later in the year, At the moment I am just sitting and seeing what happens to Railex in May.

 

David  

 

I agree. It usually takes at least12 months to organise a big show. So unless one is willing to take a big risk on wasted effort and money, no show is going to happen until well after we have much better news about the virus situation.

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3 hours ago, Furness Wagon said:

As insurance companies are in the business of risk management, I think you could safely assume that the bigger the risk the higher the premium.

I think we are actually one step up from that at the moment - the insurers simply cannot price the risk and are declining to provide cover there are so many unknowns to factor in.

 

The situation regarding insurance against loss due to Covid is very unclear - although credit to Magnet, they are quite clear - others at best are ambiguous. Through a charity I am involved with, we are currently in dispute with our insurer and our claim is with the ombudsman. The Financial Conduct Authority (the insurance regulator) has take a the insurers to the high court to try and resolve some of the conflicts. The judgement is expected on Tuesday 15th September.  https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/business-interruption-insurance#latest-updates

 

While this case is specific to business Interruption, I am sure the principles that flow from it will be applied to other forms of cover. 

 

I suspect that for quite some time to come, organisers will have to carry the risks of Covid cancellation / disruption themselves and this will impinge of their willingness to organise events.

Edited by JimFin
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Casualty of Covid - Event City in Manchester has announced it will close it's doors for good 31st March 2021 and it's planned move to a new site nearby is off.

 

This is the location for Hornby Magazine's Great Electric Trainshow on 13/14 March 2021 - so it will be the first and last model railway show on that site.  And GETS has to find a new Northern home for 2022 if it is going to continue with two shows a year.

 

I hope they can still manage to do the March 2021 show but that now looks less likely with the rule of six regulations.

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I would guess that any venue is going to have to stipulate COVID restrictions to anyone booking a hall because ultimately they are responsible for the location. The onus on the club will be to abide by those restrictions and government ones on numbers as a legal issue much like abiding by fire regulations currently. I doubt insurance really comes into it apart from on the hiring fees for most clubs, in which case it should be clarified what the liabilities are for a government lockdown / restriction vs the venue cancelling in which case they should refund anyway. The grey area would be accommodation bookings if the venue cancelled so that would need to be clarified with the insurer before booking, or taking out the hotels cancellation insurance separately. All those factors can be clarified in advance to make the decision on whether an organiser can afford a cancellation or insurance to cover their risk.
BRM and Meridienne etc are obviously slightly different as a business so might have claims for lost business to consider but that’s within their company so largely irrelevant to clubs. 
Covid itself could only be a liability if there was a complaint and Police action at the event, if they were found to be flouting rules then they would be liable to the authority but not for transmission so far as proving that is virtually impossible. Pubs flouting restrictions have been closed by Police but I’ve not seen any consequent action, even after an outbreak, by individuals. 

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17 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Casualty of Covid - Event City in Manchester has announced it will close it's doors for good 31st March 2021 and it's planned move to a new site nearby is off.

 

This is the location for Hornby Magazine's Great Electric Trainshow on 13/14 March 2021 - so it will be the first and last model railway show on that site.  And GETS has to find a new Northern home for 2022 if it is going to continue with two shows a year.

 

I hope they can still manage to do the March 2021 show but that now looks less likely with the rule of six regulations.

That's a bit of a blow.

 

Regarding the latest 6 rule, I doubt this is relevant for next March. I have no doubt it will have changed several times by then.

The quicker restrictions like this are implemented, the quicker they should have an effect. The government now seems to be reacting much more quickly (which is good) & we may well see restrictions lifted differently to before.

 

What will affect exhibitions in the medium term is uncertainty. You cannot organise something 6 months away assuming the restrictions will be the same as they are now. Nobody knows just what they will be.

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I've now adopted the direct approach of treating everything as cancelled until someone confirms otherwise.

As the man in the cold coffee advert says: "Saves all the faffing about, dunnit". 

 

I'm not holding my breath. The possibility of near-instant local lockdowns being implemented will deter anybody from laying out the up-front costs until they can be (affordably) insured against.

 

The hard truth we all need to face is that organisers can't sensibly plan anything until we see a lot more certainty than is on offer at present. In the short/medium term there are only two real possibilities. 

 

Scenario One: A vaccination programme is announced, permitting concrete planning for events to re-start when it has achieved sufficient coverage. Sufficient means encouraging enough attendance to make them viable, bearing in mind that some precautions are likely to remain in force even with vaccination.

 

Scenario Two: Confirmation that there won't be a vaccine any time soon, in which case we'll all need to have a very big rethink as to what sort of events we can have, how many people can be catered for, and how much we are willing to pay to attend them.    

 

John

 

 

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Looking at the floorplan for my own show, I can see that it would be possible to hold something within social distancing requirements (once indoor events are permitted), albeit with only about half the number of layouts.

 

I'm also fortunate in that I don't have to pay for use of the hall up-front so if it wasn't possible for it to happen, I wouldn't have any major upfront costs (other than the insurance premium itself, which I don't need to arrange until nearer the time and will probably be reduced by virtue of the lower number of exhibits.

 

Bigger questions for me are:

 

- How many traders/exhibitors will be willing to attend?

- Will we be able to do catering?

- How much cleaning will we need to do afterwards? (the hall will almost certainly be required for other purposes the following morning).

 

Also. at the present time I'm not sure I could manage to wear a mask for the  full duration of the show(including set-up and dismantling), although I could probably manage a visor.

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The rule of six doesn’t change a great deal for commercial events or most circumstances outside of domestic settings, it only gives legislative powers to enforcement of it. Businesses are still able to accommodate up to their Covid-safe limit which will be underpinned with a risk assessment taking all factors into account. The only issue is customers should not present or gather in groups greater than six and from no more than two households/ bubbles, which with the new powers of enforcement, will be expected to be more rigidly observed.
 

On the cancellation liabilities, the commercial world is adapting quickly to the new circumstances and allowing full refunds on many of the costs if cancellation is due to Covid related issues such as changes in regs or local lockdowns. The tourism and hospitality sector recognised early on that as insurers wouldn’t bear the risk, and customers would be wary, they’d Hobsons Choice in the matter, accept the risk they might lose out or get no business at all.

 

These terms would mitigate some of the big ticket costs for shows and clearly if exhibitors dont attend, there would be no layout costs though traders would have to accept that they may or may not get a return on what could involve some outlay in stock costs etc, even if there were no actual attendance costs.

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Talking with a local organiser of record fairs, it seems the rule of 6 doesn't apply to things like exhibitions or pop up sales events in rented halls. In this case the hall along with government advice is that as there are retail sales taking place, the event is classed as a temporary shop. I'm not endorsing or suggesting such but wonder if an exhibition would be able to classify itself as a train sale (with layouts) to be able to operate under the current rules. 

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1 hour ago, AndrewC said:

it seems the rule of 6 doesn't apply to things like exhibitions or pop up sales events in rented halls. In this case the hall along with government advice is that as there are retail sales taking place, the event is classed as a temporary shop. I'm not endorsing or suggesting such but wonder if an exhibition would be able to classify itself as a train sale (with layouts) to be able to operate under the current rules. 

 

TBH I think this rule of 6 is irrelevant in our case and the reason I say this is that I work at one of the UK's top visitor attractions (apologies for repeating that) - we have exhibits, we have two shops and two cafes. AFAIK no-one in management has suggested that we are closing down because of the rule of 6.

 

I am NOT saying that exhibitions can open at the moment, all I'm saying is that the rule of six makes no difference to the current situation.

 

The only thing I might suggest is that is will re-enforce the view in some (older) people that there is still a very real danger out there and that they should limit their going out/socialising. Therefore this rule may persuade more potential exhibition visitors not to attend any shows which do get put on.

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11 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

TBH I think this rule of 6 is irrelevant in our case and the reason I say this is that I work at one of the UK's top visitor attractions (apologies for repeating that) - we have exhibits, we have two shops and two cafes. AFAIK no-one in management has suggested that we are closing down because of the rule of 6.

 

I am NOT saying that exhibitions can open at the moment, all I'm saying is that the rule of six makes no difference to the current situation.

 

The only thing I might suggest is that is will re-enforce the view in some (older) people that there is still a very real danger out there and that they should limit their going out/socialising. Therefore this rule may persuade more potential exhibition visitors not to attend any shows which do get put on.

Someone made a joke locally and it's probably not wrong, if you put a card reader at your doorstep and charge them to enter your house then you're exempt from the Rule of Six.

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On 14/09/2020 at 13:40, woodenhead said:

Someone made a joke locally and it's probably not wrong, if you put a card reader at your doorstep and charge them to enter your house then you're exempt from the Rule of Six.

 

Although you might get charged with running a house of ill repute instead. :blush:

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On 14/09/2020 at 13:27, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

TBH I think this rule of 6 is irrelevant in our case and the reason I say this is that I work at one of the UK's top visitor attractions (apologies for repeating that) - we have exhibits, we have two shops and two cafes. AFAIK no-one in management has suggested that we are closing down because of the rule of 6.

 


At your work, if you have 7 people who want to view one artefact simultaneously eg a statue at close quarters, how is that managed? Eg 3 x2 Person families, not connected + 1 solo visitor, or 7 solo’s

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4 minutes ago, PMP said:


At your work, if you have 7 people who want to view one artefact simultaneously eg a statue at close quarters, how is that managed? Eg 3 x2 Person families, not connected + 1 solo visitor, or 7 solo’s

 

TBH I don't know. I have actually been off sick this week and won't go in until tomorrow.

 

I do know even before this new rule bookings could only be a maximum of 8 and school groups were banned. I will check but I assume an interactor speaks to the group discretely. 

 

I will report back.

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Great British Model Railway Show

 

Date of show: 7th/8th November 2020

 

Following the Prime Minister’s announcement last Wednesday when he introduced ‘The Rule of Six’, it has been decided, reluctantly, to concede defeat and cancel this year’s show in November.

 

Venue, the British Motor Museum and organiser, Publishing Works Ltd., had been confident that they could stage a safe, enjoyable and Covid-compliant event with measures in place to protect visitors, staff and exhibitors that would more than meet current requirements.

 

However, with restrictions increasing, rather than being relaxed and with the clock ticking, a decision had to be reached. The announcement last week had also led to a number of traders and exhibitors pulling out of the show, increasing the degree of difficulty at this stage.

 

We know that many people will be disappointed, especially those who booked tickets in advance, but we will be back next year with a bigger and better show for everyone to enjoy in a more relaxed environment than is currently possible.

 

The show’s organisers would like to thank everyone for their support and encouragement to get the show on and trust we can count on a similar level of support next year. The dates for 2021 are 30th & 31st October.

 

Paul Appleton,

Organiser, GBMRS

 

15th September 2020

 

 

 

Anyone requiring a ticket refund should go to www.gbmrs.com/tickets for instructions on how to claim their money back

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4 hours ago, gr.king said:

No, it's simple rule of six. If you find six difficult to understand or to apply in a particular context, there's not much hope for you. ANY simple rule is going to seem bizarre or inconsistent in some situations, if you look hard enough for a strange example, but it has to be a simple rule that the police can monitor by sight in most situations and enforce immediately where necessary. That's the only way to create any hope of forcing selfish, stupid  or "politically opposed" people who "can't understand" / don't want to understand / deliberately misunderstand or ignore the rules to comply, for everybody else's sake.

Unless it's a Grouse shoot or hunting with guns - then it is 30 people.

 

Don't get me wrong I understand the concept of six people but how is shooting or hunting an animal a sport.  Hunting a pest near a farm just requires just a farmer, so this is killing just for enjoyment, how lovely that in order to avoid a possible death I must not see more than 6 people but if I want to wander around the countryside with a gun and kill things I can do so with 30 complete strangers.

 

People need to see that what is being imposed only applies to certain classes of people.

 

So when rules like this are applied then the people it is being imposed upon look at the people who don't have to follow it and go, well if they don't have to follow this rule, why should I.

 

Consistency, fair imposition of rules, clarity and proper respect from the top is how you get people to follow, not through badly thought out social media driven scare tactics.

 

It's a curfew next for Newcastle - so this illness only comes out at night does it?

 

Sorry, rant over.

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1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

 

 

It's a curfew next for Newcastle - so this illness only comes out at night does it?

 

Sorry, rant over.

It has become more than apparent that the more pi55ed people get the more they forget (or cease to care) about taking precautions, though that doesn't only apply to Covid precautions, of course.:girldevil:

 

If everybody goes home with a couple fewer pints in the tank, it can only help....:jester:

 

John

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1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

It has become more than apparent that the more pi55ed people get the more they forget (or cease to care) about taking precautions, though that doesn't only apply to Covid precautions, of course.:girldevil:

 

If everybody goes home with a couple fewer pints in the tank, it can only help....:jester:

 

John

Or they will just go out earlier to go home with someone earlier.

 

The time of day isn't going to stop people doing what they will do and things like Tinder solve the issue of finding someone.

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7 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

people doing what they will do and things like Tinder solve the issue of finding someone

 

Being pragmatic they'll still do it but if they're away from others it reduces the spread, either from or to them. They'll still have their house parties but maybe they come into contact with fewer people. We've been incapable of eliminating transmission because some will just do what they feel like, not what is sensible or right. It's just a nebulous hope that it will reduce spread or slow down the arrival of another peak. 

 

I'm not saying that's what should happen; just what will.

 

It's not just 'young' people who are stupid and not all young people are stupid of course. I'd chuck the bunch of selfish idiots with an infected person/s who went on a coach pub-crawl from S.Wales to Doncaster for the races and back in solitary for a bit. ;) 

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My wife was working in clinic today - full PPE on - visor, gloves etc - kid comes in for assessment.

 

Looks ill, mum says temperature was checked at school and when asked by my wife child didn't indicate any loss of taste nor smell.

 

But she messages me, how do we tell what is a cold, what is flu and what is coronavirus, when do a refuse to assess someone and send them away?

 

And then there is the one person in Bolton who according to local news infected 200 people causing the lockdown.  Mrs W goes to Bolton once a week and mixes with people as part of her job.

 

Woodenhead Towers, feels so safe until I consider that both my wife and child travel about Greater Manchester daily.

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1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

I'd chuck the bunch of selfish idiots with an infected person/s who went on a coach pub-crawl from S.Wales to Doncaster for the races and back in solitary for a bit.

 

Chuck the teachers in from the school in Bacup too. Thickheads. 

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