andyman7 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 On 23/05/2020 at 19:54, Half-full said: I wouldnt go as far to say we've all had the flu, real flu is brutal and lasts weeks, we've all had bad colds though! Ironically a cold is a coronovirus whereas the 'flu is, well, an influenza virus. I wonder if, post the expected July relaxations there is now the opportunity for any organisation or body that thinks that they may actually be able to put on an exhibition or event later in the year to put their head above the parapet. Whilst there are many that might not be comfortable with venturing out, the sheer lack of equivalent alternatives would hopefully compensate in terms of bringing in the required numbers. It doesn't have to follow the traditional model of many tables/exhibitors crammed into a small hall. Ideally stalls could be outside (the Bluebell Toy & Train Collector's Fairs are all held outside....). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris M Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 A gathering of 200 wouldn't be much of an exhibition! Remember there are 2-4 (or more) people per exhibit before you get any paying visitors. Even a very small exhibition with say 20 stands in total will have a "staff" of more than 50. The fact is that one day, and nobody can say when, the number of new Covid-19 cases will drop to penny numbers. At that point all exhibitions will be safe. Some countries have already got to this point and that's without a vaccine. My guess is that exhibitions for the back end of the year are about 50/50 but that is nothing more than a wild guess. At the moment the only exhibition I am booked for this year is a one day job in August. I expect it will be cancelled but the organisers are right to not cancel untill they know it cannot go ahead. It is possible (but unlikely) that new cases will be low enough by August for meetings such as model railway exhibitions to go ahead - nobody can say at this point. Even though I don't expect this exhibition to happen I have a plan to make sure I will be fully ready to go to this just in case it does go ahead. To me this is the sensible approach. Just get on with doing what you do and let those who run the venues make the big decisions that only they can make. The thing I'm really hoping for is that I will be able to take my grandchildren to the panto this Christmas. It will be the four year olds very first proper panto. I love model railway exhibitions but family is more important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2020 Just to repeat, our show in Basingstoke just managed to scrape in the week before lockdown was announced. However, we only had half the number of visitors that we would normally expect. So, even if there is enough enthusiasm to put on a show, it might not be financially viable to do so just yet. Oh, and remember, the NEC halls that usually house the Warley show are currently a hospital. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted June 2, 2020 Author Moderators Share Posted June 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, Ian Morgan said: Oh, and remember, the NEC halls that usually house the Warley show are currently a hospital The Nightingale unit is in the higher numbered halls to the east of the site. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Warley normally only occupies part of the hall it is staged in so physically there is some scope to spread it out if the safety protocols applying at the time can be met and the commercials agreed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, AY Mod said: The Nightingale unit is in the higher numbered halls to the east of the site. Well that's the accommodation sorted. 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2020 I have a few invites left for this year that have not yet been cancelled but some I know are likely to be after talking with the managers but they are holding out as long as they can just incase things do change. I have some shows we should have been attending that have been cancelled after looking on their websites but as of yet no correspondence from the organisers. Others, I have been asked to attend next year instead of this years cancelled event (or even in 2022), with one that has two dates just incase the earlier one cant go ahead. Luckily we can do both dates for that one but some others are now clashing with next years shows so its going to a be a tricky situation to try and not let anyone down assuming that next year will be Ok for shows. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, andyman7 said: Warley normally only occupies part of the hall it is staged in so physically there is some scope to spread it out if the safety protocols applying at the time can be met and the commercials agreed. And who pays the extra cost? (The floor used is the space paid for.. the "empty" bits of the hall are not paid for )How many people would attend? will exhibitors/demos/ society and trade stands want to be there? Can people afford to attend? (protecting demos etc would probably make them impossible to do safely while allowing hands on access. Layouts who operate from the front" may also be a problem. Catering for the visitors and those putting on the show may be even more problematic than is usually "Moaned" about on here. Toilets would also be a major problem as they are one way in ..the same way out ..so not social distancing of any sort. Of course if you have a blueprint on how to tun a show safely, with the intention of at least breaking even.. please feel free to post in on here ... Baz 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2020 45 minutes ago, andyman7 said: Ironically a cold is a coronovirus whereas the 'flu is, well, an influenza virus. I wonder if, post the expected July relaxations there is now the opportunity for any organisation or body that thinks that they may actually be able to put on an exhibition or event later in the year to put their head above the parapet. Whilst there are many that might not be comfortable with venturing out, the sheer lack of equivalent alternatives would hopefully compensate in terms of bringing in the required numbers. It doesn't have to follow the traditional model of many tables/exhibitors crammed into a small hall. Ideally stalls could be outside (the Bluebell Toy & Train Collector's Fairs are all held outside....). ever operated a layout outside? In the rain? Even a tent is a "building" so it is just as difficult to use for a show as a hall would be.. Baz 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Barry O said: And who pays the extra cost? (The floor used is the space paid for.. the "empty" bits of the hall are not paid for )How many people would attend? will exhibitors/demos/ society and trade stands want to be there? Can people afford to attend? (protecting demos etc would probably make them impossible to do safely while allowing hands on access. Layouts who operate from the front" may also be a problem. I did state that it would be subject to the commercials. In a normal year the NEC would want paying, but this isn't a normal year. And I'm certainly not underestimating the effort involved. But are we not allowed to hope anymore? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Barry O said: ever operated a layout outside? In the rain? Even a tent is a "building" so it is just as difficult to use for a show as a hall would be.. Baz I was thinking of trade stands. I was actually wondering if anyone out there was working on what was possible. In the industry I worked in for over 30 years, there was always a queue of people who would happily tell you why or how something couldn't be done. Far more interesting were the smaller number who would work the issue to see if it could be done. Edited June 2, 2020 by andyman7 Spelling 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2020 Just now, andyman7 said: I did state that it would be subject to the commercials. In a normal year the NEC would want paying, but this isn't a normal year. And I'm certainly not underestimating the effort involved. But are we not allowed to hope anymore? Not with the NEC you aren't.. or any other Hall for that matter. Every one is very short of money... as Primark said.."we are opening but don't expect any bargains" 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2020 Just now, andyman7 said: I was thinking of trade stands. If you want to shoot it down, join the queue, I was actually wondering if anyone out there was working on what was possible. In the industry I worked in for over 30 years, there was always a queue of people who would happily tell you why or how something couldb't be done. Far more intersting were the smaller number who would work the issue to see if it could be done. As an engineer I have spent all of my life working out problems which were "impossible" to solve.. I enjoyed that.. but the biggest problems at the moment are the uncertainties of which we have no control over. Things like attendance, trade support, layout support, people to set up the show and take it down again ( generally such people are in the "at risk" age groups, How do you get enough people to steward the show. Will the Halls allow you to hold the show at all. Looking ta the ins and outs of it - despite what has been said on Facebook Leeds MRS show at the end of October has not yet been cancelled.. but we are very aware of the drive by our venue ( The Grammar School at Leeds) who may not want us at Half Term in October ( A date we have used for nearly 60 years). You can hope but at some point you have to face the realities of the situation. 2021 should be a cracking year for Shows... Baz 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said: An increasing number of people have had this virus & antibody tests are becoming more readily available, so surely more people will be happy to put on a show? In 4-5 months time, many of us may be antibody positive But the scientists are warning that having it once appears not to make you fully immune because there are various strains already across the world and they will get here as the rapid initial global spread showed. This is on the national news and someone involved in the research known to a friend is even more cautious because they still know only part of its effects and symptoms. We all want to get back to a normal but a lot of proper science is being ignored in the rush to normal and likely to prolong the pain further. Stop listening to the rhetoric of the politicians and papers and read the deeper news on several sites and you’ll get a much better impression of the risks that don’t need to be taken. Getting people working and able to get outside is good but sorry shows can wait. Arguments about the mental importance are valid but the shows need to be busy to make money and it’s just not worth getting seriously ill for and that’s from someone who does live alone and really enjoys the social side of shows. 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, Ian Morgan said: Just to repeat, our show in Basingstoke just managed to scrape in the week before lockdown was announced. However, we only had half the number of visitors that we would normally expect. So, even if there is enough enthusiasm to put on a show, it might not be financially viable to do so just yet. Again, that will vary from show to show. The show I mentioned earlier is in a church hall, and the proceeds of the show go to the church so there is no rent to pay up-front. I think the organiser's only costs are printing and insurance and it usually turns in a pretty healthy profit so I can imagine he won't be worrying too much from that point of view. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 40 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: But the scientists are warning that having it once appears not to make you fully immune because there are various strains already across the world and they will get here as the rapid initial global spread showed. Not quite, scientists are warning that we should not be complacent about immunity because at this time they are uncertain. If you were studying it, would you be bold enough to say you are 100% convinced that there is only 1 strain & beating it gives you full immunity? I wouldn't no matter how sure I was of my facts. In 6 months time we may have more information with which to make a decision which is not possible with the current level of understanding. One thing I know for certain is that NHS's blood donation service is taking volunteers from those who have beaten the virus in order to investigate the use of their antibodies. I have had it & have registered for this. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Barry O said: Not with the NEC you aren't.. or any other Hall for that matter. Every one is very short of money... as Primark said.."we are opening but don't expect any bargains" However as the NEC don't rent out the rest of Hall 5 when Warley's on, it wouldn't cost them anything to let them spread out and use the extra space. That said, the amount of 'extra space' isn't that much in proportion to the size of the show and the number of people who normally attend. But as has already been pointed out, there are all sorts of other issues around holding Warley and even if it is held, I very much doubt I will be attending this year. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutyDruid Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 43 minutes ago, RJS1977 said: However as the NEC don't rent out the rest of Hall 5 when Warley's on, it wouldn't cost them anything to let them spread out and use the extra space. That said, the amount of 'extra space' isn't that much in proportion to the size of the show and the number of people who normally attend. But as has already been pointed out, there are all sorts of other issues around holding Warley and even if it is held, I very much doubt I will be attending this year. Doing a lot of event management-type stuff professionally (as a medic at music festivals as well as at model railway exhibitions), and having crewed as a guest steward for Warley, I can tell you that there is a very good reason for having what appears to be that redundant extra back space in Hall 5. The Packdown Phase particularly just wouldn't work without it. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2020 51 minutes ago, RJS1977 said: However as the NEC don't rent out the rest of Hall 5 when Warley's on, it wouldn't cost them anything to let them spread out and use the extra space. That said, the amount of 'extra space' isn't that much in proportion to the size of the show and the number of people who normally attend. But as has already been pointed out, there are all sorts of other issues around holding Warley and even if it is held, I very much doubt I will be attending this year. You have no idea of dealing with large scale organisations. The NEC allow traders to leave trailers etc in the "space" and charge them for it. If it was going to be"free" don't you think that warley would make use of it? Just think, if you don't attend you could spend a weekend doing some real railway modelling! Baz 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Brady Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 On 25/05/2020 at 17:27, Bungus the Fogeyman said: Sorry to be a Miserable Manfred but could this somewhat elongated conversation be carried on on another page please Mods? Whilst I'm sure that all the opinions forwarded are valid and well-reasoned ( and I did like the story of the a**e in the Audi getting the bums rush at B&M!) and I respect those views to some degree, would it be possible to move these to another thread? I'm sure the original intention of this thread was to actually inform punters and exhibitors of postponed or cancelled shows and, while common sense at this point in time would point to everything being off at the moment, it would be nice not to have to wade through pages of froth to discover whether a show is taking place at the moment..... A case in point would be the Wycombe exhibition in November. I have heard rumours that its off on Facebook, but have yet to see anything in this thread regarding its status although it may have been mentioned in amongst all the froth......... Just my opinion! Disgusting of Market Harborough Hello Sorry to be a pain , as quoted before , can we just keep it to cancellations , Not being horrible to anyone , even the list of cancellations has fallen by the wayside , what shows are on and whats off . Sorry again . 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 3, 2020 As things currently stand, I'm presuming all indoor public gatherings to be cancelled u.f.n. I think we can be assured that this and other "grapevines" will ensure we don't miss the news when the first one is confirmed to be going ahead. Maybe a thread on that topic would be more efficient than this one. As others have intimated, though, I've also decided it's prudent to consider 2020 a personal write-off, for model railway shows and several other activities I enjoy. I'm fortunate in having other interests I can continue to pursue. If I'm proved wrong later, it'll be a pleasant surprise. If I'm right, I've got all my disappointment out of the way in one go rather than getting a fresh shot of it as each event is formally cancelled. Yet more efficiency! John 7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Roger Sunderland Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2020 15 hours ago, Not Jeremy said: Oh for heavens sake. Are you by any chance a fan of rucksacks too? Personally I hate rules, but that doesn't mean I don't follow them or understand why they are in place in the current situation. But why the need to be dictated to or to dictate to others about everything? As others have observed, it is and will always will be about each of us making our own judgements in any situation. If you decide to stay locked away then that is fine and no one should mock such a stance, but if someone else decides to go out (obviously not breaking any laws etc) then does the mob really have to scream blue murder? Anyway, one day in the not too distant future it will have to get back to normal - otherwise we're all going to be utterly doomed. Oh poo, I just spread some - soz Phil Not Jeremy You clearly have not spent 2 days being coughed and sneezed upon from the width of the layout away - in our case 2' 6". Perhaps you haven't seen the scrum to obtain some of "Bachmanns " bargains. You may not have queued for the toilets only to find the floor covered in urine and toilet bowls filled with faeces ( but not at the best exhibitions). As I said - a bio hazard! And no I have nothing against rucksacks. if everybody followed basic hygiene rules then these things wouldn't happen - but then some people don't like rules and don't follow them. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Matt C Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) I'm thinking along the same lines, @Dunsignalling In my view ALL exhibitions, shows, gatherings, swapmeets etc are suspended until further notice. Instead of @AY Mod trying to push water up hill keeping this list current with rolling updates I'll wait for the NEW list that tells me something is actually going ahead. That way I don't have to read anymore "well I'm not one of the doomsayers but my wife's best friends gynaecologist's son who's mate's got a chemistry set and also reads tealeaves recons...." Edited June 3, 2020 by Mattc6911 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Roger Sunderland said: You clearly have not spent 2 days being coughed and sneezed upon from the width of the layout away - in our case 2' 6". Perhaps you haven't seen the scrum to obtain some of "Bachmanns " bargains. You may not have queued for the toilets only to find the floor covered in urine and toilet bowls filled with faeces ( but not at the best exhibitions). As I said - a bio hazard! And no I have nothing against rucksacks. if everybody followed basic hygiene rules then these things wouldn't happen - but then some people don't like rules and don't follow them. I am sure all of us have encountered all of these unpleasant things at some point, but you make it sound like exhibitions are quite a nasty gathering place for all of them together & none of them ever happen elsewhere? I have done loads of shows, particularly in the last few years where I have frequently run an association stand. I usually sit in front because I find it more friendly & at no time have I experienced "2 days being coughed and sneezed upon". If you really believe your very twisted description of a show, maybe you should continue to avoid them once everyone else is enjoying them again? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Benjamin Brady said: even the list of cancellations has fallen by the wayside , what shows are on and whats off . I’d suggest the simplest thing all round is to check the website for the show or UKmodelshops site which usually lists a contact email or phone number. Maybe if people see no info on one they usually go to they could contact the show a month before and pass the info in the reply to Andy to update the list if it’s not on there? Saves all the handwringing people are doing and as people are online to read this topic everyone affected here has internet I’ve had three cancelled, one I was exhibiting at forgot to send me info direct. It was on here and their website so I didn’t bother chasing them up over why I didn’t get a personal notification as there’s probably other things taking priority. I’ve also talked to another for September which we are assuming is off but the venue hasn’t cancelled so they need to wait until they do to avoid losing the deposit if they cancel. So the layout will be ready just in case 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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