Exhibition cancellations (not much to do with that anymore!)

[MarkSG]

15 hours ago, andyman7 said:

Warley normally only occupies part of the hall it is staged in so physically there is some scope to spread it out if the safety protocols applying at the time can be met and the commercials agreed.

 

Whether that would be financially possible is, of course, up to the NEC. From their perspective, it could well make sense to let Warley have a whole hall for the same price they normally pay for half a hall, as it does at least bring in some revenue at a time when otherwise it would simply be empty.

 

But that wouldn't solve the problem that popular layouts and trade stands will still develop a scrum around them. Operators and traders will still be separated from visitors by no more than the width of a baseboard or trestle table, and visitors will be cheek by jowl as they look for kinks in the track or aim to snap up the bargains.

 

So I don't think this is really workable, at least not for a model railway exhibition. There are some events at the NEC where it could be practical, but not Warley. If we are going to have exhibitions restart in autumn and winter, we need to be able to hold them in the same way that we always have. And that depends entirely on progress in defeating the pandemic.

[Chris M]

The decision on Warley and other big shows will be entirely down to the venue owners. They are the professionals, they manage the risks associated with all the shows at their venue.  The clubs etc who put on exhibitions are just amateurs doing a great job; I'm sure they will be happy to follow professional advice.

 

Agreed that one should assume all exhibitions are cancelled until further notice. May I suggest a new thread stating which exhibitions are definitely on. It will be a rather short thread at the moment.....

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

at no time have I experienced "2 days being coughed and sneezed upon".

 

Honestly it does happen, even before this I've been very conscious about this from people and there are some people who don't see themselves doing it or anyone else. It's not every time of course but several times I've gone down with a grotty cold a few days after a big show weekend. It happened to me at Doncaster this year so please don't dismiss peoples' concerns too quickly.

[PMP]

In terms of managing the punters through a show, and how facilities can be used/adapted/removed, it may be worth looking at similar ‘traffic’ in different sectors. One area with significant similarities are airport termini and rail/bus stations. By now places like the airports/NEC will be working on a plan if events are allowed to re-start,  they may be able to indicate currently, how that will impact the customers.

Edited June 3, 2020 by PMP
Add word

[PaulRhB]

I don’t like Perspex on the front of layouts normally so I wouldn’t be investing in it for bigger screens to protect operators especially with the layout that has 44ft of frontage  

I simply wouldn’t go until the layout could be displayed how I want and safely without screens. 
Screens and other costly investments in equipment and space aren’t worth it until we know there’s no other option, then we can worry about how.
 

Certainly it’d see the end of my long Harz layout at shows simply on the extra equipment required.

 

No I’ll wait and let the geniuses working on the virus already making great progress see what they can do and save more trauma to all frontline Carers and Medical workers. Once a treatment is discovered it will take months to roll out so there’s plenty of time to sort details out then  
 

[PaulRhB]

5 minutes ago, PMP said:

In terms of managing the punters through a show, and how facilities can be used/adapted/removed, it may be worth looking at similar ‘traffic’ in different sectors. One area with significant similarities are airport termini and rail/bus stations. By now places like the airports/NEC will be working on a plan if events are allowed to re-start,  they may be able to indicate currently, how that will impact the customers.

At the station we have hired metal crowd railings splitting the subway into one way systems but it barely gives 2 m unless both flows walk against the wall, which they don’t!

As for the box we have to move out the comfy seat we use for breaks and replace it with a desk for the second man to work from as it’s the only way to not keep passing within 2m as you work. This is considered as a temporary measure so no big investment in permanent equipment or major structural changes to alter work or public spaces is currently on the cards, that’s the sensible response to current knowledge. 
I suspect there will be no festival type crowd barriers available for events unless the cost is passed on to buy a lot more to replace the stocks already hired. That’s got to be balanced against potential mountains of excess equipment in ?12? ish months so it’s going to have to be passed on to cover that potential short term period of use. 

[Roger Sunderland]

Sorry I was trying to make the point that any indoor gathering of people, at the moment is a huge risk, mainly because of human contact and human nature. I too have exhibited many times over the last few years and both I and my fellow operators have experienced all these things, Particularly being coughed and sneezed over,although not necessarily at the same time.

There are many things I love about exhibitions and I wish that we could all be enjoying them now But as per my original point, I just think it would be sensible to put them all on hold and review the situation at the start of next year.

[PMP]

55 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

 

I suspect there will be no festival type crowd barriers available for events unless the cost is passed on

I agree, they are also unlikely to be considered suitable for many places due to the potential of problems regardIng emergency access/egress. With current restrictions extra stewards/marshalls will be required to ‘enforce/administer’ queuing etc. For example if the festival barriers were used they’ll need cleaning regime’s too. No easy answers!

Edited June 3, 2020 by PMP
Clarity

[Andy Hayter]

Just to take the Warley example.

 

A couple of years ago I flew into Brum for the exhibition and had the half hour pre-opening bonus.  I arrived at the entrance about 20 minutes early and there were already a couple of hundred people in front of me.  By the time the doors opened I would guess that there were at lest 500 people waiting to get in.  So with 2m spacing that is a one kilometre queue.

Do we really think that is practical? 

[PMP]

3 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

So with 2m spacing that is a one kilometre queue.

Do we really think that is practical? 

 The national motorcycle show normally coincides date wise, so there’s possibility of simultaneous events and their visitors too. Queues and managing them outside the halls is the NEC’s liability, and there are obviously challenges with today’s current restrictions. Those same issues affect smaller shows too with varying degrees.

[john new]

4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Honestly it does happen, even before this I've been very conscious about this from people and there are some people who don't see themselves doing it or anyone else. It's not every time of course but several times I've gone down with a grotty cold a few days after a big show weekend. It happened to me at Doncaster this year so please don't dismiss peoples' concerns too quickly.

Mixing people from different locations together does it all the time - another example is the commonality of "freshers flu" sicknesses which is a recognised scenario in the first week or two of the new term/semester at Uni. [and I don't just mean hangovers!]

[Allegheny1600]

I dread to think of the scenario that may occur if there is an exhibition before this outbreak is fully over:

The exhibition opens, everyone queues safely at a distance, folk enjoy the layouts, trade etc.

Then, the rucksack wearing, dirty unwashed ignoramus that we all know turns up and suffers a non-covid related sneezing fit.

 

He'd get lynched!!!

[JohnDMJ]

Warley:

 

4 hours ago, PMP said:

 The national motorcycle show normally coincides date wise, so there’s possibility of simultaneous events and their visitors too. Queues and managing them outside the halls is the NEC’s liability, and there are obviously challenges with today’s current restrictions. Those same issues affect smaller shows too with varying degrees.

 

From their website: https://www.motorcyclelive.co.uk/motorcycle-live-2020-organiser-statement/

 

Draw your own conclusions but I suspect it may be a quiet weekend!

 

Isn't Hall 5 being otherwise used contra virus currently? If such continues, then this wouldn't be the venue anyway!

[Barry O]

11 minutes ago, JohnDMJ said:

Isn't Hall 5 being otherwise used contra virus currently? If such continues, then this wouldn't be the venue anyway!

Plenty of Halls at the NEC but all have common problems regarding access to the Toilets in particular

 

Baz

 

[AY Mod]

21 minutes ago, JohnDMJ said:

Isn't Hall 5 being otherwise used contra virus currently? If such continues, then this wouldn't be the venue anyway

 

23 hours ago, AY Mod said:

The Nightingale unit is in the higher numbered halls to the east of the site.

 

[caradoc]

6 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

So with 2m spacing that is a one kilometre queue.

Do we really think that is practical? 

 

It is not in any way practical, of course. But if we are still having to maintain 2m social distancing at the end of November, meaning that by then it will have been in force for over 8 full months, normal life, as we knew it, is effectively over. I cannot see any way that will actually happen, whether decreed by the science/Government or not. Just look at the queues waiting hours to get into Ikea, or gorge on a Big Mac, this week !

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

9 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

It is not in any way practical, of course. But if we are still having to maintain 2m social distancing at the end of November, meaning that by then it will have been in force for over 8 full months, normal life, as we knew it, is effectively over. I cannot see any way that will actually happen, whether decreed by the science/Government or not. Just look at the queues waiting hours to get into Ikea, or gorge on a Big Mac, this week !

 

 

 

I think that is a bit pessimistic. By November, we should have reliable testing in place (perhaps even a vaccine) and life can return more to normal.

 

As a recent entrant to the hospitality trade, I certainly hope so! I am lucky in having a property where quite large numbers of people can "socially distance". But it won't make for the sort of ambiance that Lauren and I are seeking to create.

[caradoc]

10 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

I think that is a bit pessimistic. By November, we should have reliable testing in place (perhaps even a vaccine) and life can return more to normal.

 

I agree, but it wasn't me suggesting social distancing might still be in place in November ! I too sincerely hope we can get back to normal as soon as it is possible and of course safe, although what constitutes 'safe' may be subject to debate.

 

[Andy Hayter]

50 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

It is not in any way practical, of course. But if we are still having to maintain 2m social distancing at the end of November, meaning that by then it will have been in force for over 8 full months, normal life, as we knew it, is effectively over. I cannot see any way that will actually happen, whether decreed by the science/Government or not. Just look at the queues waiting hours to get into Ikea, or gorge on a Big Mac, this week !

 

 

 

Well I am sorry to play Cassandra here but you have to ask yourself what realistically will change between now and November.

Vaccine?  With luck proven to work, be safe and will be in production but it is unlikely that mass vaccination will be in place by then even if all the fair winds of the world blow.  Any vaccine administered will take several weeks before it reaches maximum efficacy, so even if you got a shot at the start of November, you would probably not have best immunity until mid December.  I say best immunity because vaccines are rarely 100% effective.  Flu vaccines (which contain 3 or 4 strains to maximise the chances of success) are reckoned to be 70% effective in good years - a lot better than not having it nevertheless.

Effective testing - yes probably but so what?  Estimates (and they are just that) suggest that 10% population have now had the virus.  Let's say that it turns out to be 15% - so by November how many?  If we have another peak and another lock down perhaps another 25%, but given the stated efforts to avoid that, at best we would double the 15% to 30% - which means that 70% will not have had it.  Social distancing will still be with us.  At best we might hope for a reduction to 1m separation - so that just makes a half kilometre queue mingled with the bikers.   There is good evidence that 1m is effective - just not as effective as 2m.  So some people will get the virus as a result of the reduction in social distancing.  That will not look good on a political or medical resume if you are fingered as the person who recommended it and a lot of people got sick.

Miracle cure?  Well I feel confident that there will be some drugs or combination of drugs that will speed recovery, but people will still get the virus and more than likely become very unwell before such drugs should be administered.  

[spamcan61]

36 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

Well I am sorry to play Cassandra here but you have to ask yourself what realistically will change between now and November.

 

Agree with what you say from a medical point of view, but as time goes on the sums of money required to support a lockdown / 2m separation economy become more and more mind blowingly huge so the economic pressure to get things back to something like normal will increase, and I think that will be the driving factor.  For example how long can a public transport system run when it can only operate at 20% (or thereabouts) capacity? higher costs than normal and a fraction of normal revenue.

[polybear]

Apologies if the following point has already been mentioned (I've only skimmed this topic recently) but presumably the availability of Exhibition Insurance covering cancellation due to C-19 may well be difficult to find, and if available then at inflated prices?  There can't be too many clubs able or prepared to cover cancellation costs out of their own pockets in the event of another flare up.

[steve1]

17 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Just to take the Warley example.

 

A couple of years ago I flew into Brum for the exhibition and had the half hour pre-opening bonus.  I arrived at the entrance about 20 minutes early and there were already a couple of hundred people in front of me.  By the time the doors opened I would guess that there were at lest 500 people waiting to get in.  So with 2m spacing that is a one kilometre queue.

Do we really think that is practical? 

 

MPs at the House of Parliament the other day did just that, so yes it is.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52903115

 

steve

[TEAMYAKIMA]

56 minutes ago, polybear said:

Apologies if the following point has already been mentioned (I've only skimmed this topic recently) but presumably the availability of Exhibition Insurance covering cancellation due to C-19 may well be difficult to find, and if available then at inflated prices?  There can't be too many clubs able or prepared to cover cancellation costs out of their own pockets in the event of another flare up.

 

That is an excellent point. I imagine that many/most clubs use the Magnet insurance scheme, does anyone know if they have changed their T'S & C's regarding cancellations?

[Tricky-CRS]

18 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

That is an excellent point. I imagine that many/most clubs use the Magnet insurance scheme, does anyone know if they have changed their T'S & C's regarding cancellations?

 

Holiday insurance excludes Covid-19 cancellation, I have just took a policy out for a weekend trip next May cancelled from this year for the Dunkirk anniversary. Covid is not covered except in certain circumstances.

[AY Mod]

47 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

I imagine that many/most clubs use the Magnet insurance scheme, does anyone know if they have changed their T'S & C's regarding cancellations?

 

Magnet have not changed their T&Cs to my knowledge but there were already specific exclusions to the policy as below.

 

 

So, no; any event cancellation costs under the current situation will not be covered under their insurance.