Exhibition cancellations (not much to do with that anymore!)

[Andy Hayter]

33 minutes ago, DutyDruid said:

 

 

You can't deny that there are a lot more tests being done now, which in turn will mean that a lot more cases will be detected in that group of people that are basically destined to be asymptomatic.  I see this as a good thing in that it will slow the spread, but it will push the reported case numbers up too.

 

 

 

 

Although that sounds sensible and compelling.  Analysis of the increase in cases suggests that increased testing is not the main reason for an increase in the number of cases being reported.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/rising-uk-infections-what-do-the-latest-figures-mean/ar-BB18yUEc?ocid=msedgntp

 

 

[PaulRhB]

16 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

carrying the torch into this new world

Blimey it’s not the apocalypse or Game of Thrones just yet you know  
 

How about just waiting for the timescales widely reported and mentioned here multiple times and have a little faith in the vast resources being thrown at this. There are inevitable cost rises to enough things during this that we don’t need to make normal in our little niche where certain people will then press to keep them! 

 

I invested several thousand pounds in my layout, and had three shows for that cancelled already, and I’m not intending adding to that for this despite being in a relatively lower risk group. I’m also in the fortunate group who’ve worked more during this while others have lost 20-100% of their earnings and I doubt they’ll take kindly to 50-100% increases in exhibition tickets.
 

Edited September 7, 2020 by PaulRhB

[ardbealach]

I am 75 and respect the opinions of the stay at homes - for however long that will be.  But it should be remembered that they may ne there for some time as there is unlikely to be a silver bullet vaccine.  Even with the flu vaccine people still got flu.

Our group has two layouts - one a roundy roundy and the other fiddle to end.  Both could easily be adapted to be operated to comply with social distancing, maybe Pendon style operatedbehind a front screen and from behind the backscene.  And lunches for operators could be served as I have seen at some shows to the layout in sealed lunch boxes.  Traders may well prove more difficult to address, but could operate a click and collect but waiting for browsers to finish their browsing at stands might prove to be a bit of a frustration.

Mrs Ardbealach and I are presently in a holiday cottage near Arisaig.  We have been in shops, eaten at Tebay motorway service centre and in various restaurants and travelled on The Jacobite from Fort Bill.  Everywhere (apart from Tebay) asked us for contact details and everywhere people have been sensibly wearing masks indoors.  All very civilised.  Oh and a couple of nights BnB in private guest house and at a Premier both well organised and again we felt secure and safe.

 

As I said at the start of this comment about those who have decided to stay indoors for health or other reasons.  There are those like us who are now starting to get on with our lives beyond our own front doors in the new arrangements.  So please can we have a bit more positivity about our world around us. (AM)

 

 

 

 

[woodenhead]

9 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Blimey it’s not the apocalypse or Game of Thrones just yet you know  
 

I've never said it is, but things will be different for the foreseeable future and many exhibitions will be denied suitable premises to host whilst schools, colleges & leisure centres cope with restrictions placed upon them.

[john new]

For a bit of good news, three of our SLS meeting Centres have been able to arrange meetings despite COVID restrictions on their usual venues. The first dates are in October - details at https://www.stephensonloco.org.uk/SLS_perpet_cal.htm#oct 

 

Please note although meetings remain open to guests if you are not a regular attendee it is best to check first with the contact listed on the Meetings & Venues page as at least one Centre has a restriction on allowable numbers - https://www.stephensonloco.org.uk/SLSmeetings_venues.htm

Regrettably our other Centres will remain closed, probably until January.

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by john new
Typos corrected

[DutyDruid]

58 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Not necessarily - I reckon that by the time the various stakeholders are 'ready' in their respective ways to restart the exhibition behemoth, wider 'hospitality' and society in general will be pretty slick at facilitating events such that they are viable for the aforesaid stakeholders. 

 

 

Sadly, I'm afraid I can't agree.

 

Fareham Railex (10,000 sq ft, approx 30 layouts):

• Sat hours 10 to 6 = 8 hours
• Sunday hours 10 to 5 = 9 hours
• Total 17 hours open to the public.
• My festival and exhibition experience suggests that in order to give breaks and down time I'm going to need 10 paid stewards which equates to 170 man hours
• Rule of thumb based on dealing with Security at Festivals: they will cost me something close to £20 per hour to buy in (assuming that they earn close to "Living Wage") so cost to me is going to be a minimum of £3400.
• Gate of 1500 paying + 1000 "free children" (which if what I see here is true I can expect to fall dramatically, but we'll stick with it for the example)
• £3400 spread over 1500 paying tickets in round terms is around £2.25 extra per ticket

Current ticket price should be £7.50 (but we were actually planning to hold the price at £7 this year), that means I'm going to be charging a tenner, that's approaching a 33% hike in admission.

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, DutyDruid said:

that means I'm going to be charging a tenner, that's approaching a 33% hike in admission.

 

As enthusiasts that's something we should take on the chin with full understanding. However, it's a bit different for the more casual visitor.

 

With a possible move towards online ticketing with a choice of admission times to control numbers and capacity maybe we should be supporting tiered pricing; more expensive at the beginning of the event and reducing later in the day to appeal to casual/non-enthusiast visitors. Also most shows have a 66/33 split Saturday to Sunday so maybe tiered pricing can adjust that balance. Taking your new £10 entrance as a base maybe it could be tiered as:

Saturday

10.00+ admission £15

12.00+ admission £10

14.00+ admission £8

Sunday

10.00+ admission £12

12.00+ admission £9

14.00+ admission £7

 

Just an idea to help control numbers and have different price incentives.

 

[Giles]

2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

That is at best a guess. We came out of serious lockdown months ago and yet all EU countries, including those whose schools have ben open longer than ours,  are showing the same results - lots of infection, very few hospitalisations or deaths. The cry of "it will be worse in 2 weeks" has been regular on Twitter for months and so far, fortunately, nothing has happened. Why are hospitalisations and deaths not rising? Lots of theories, but no answers yet.

 

 

Its not a guess that we've been in lockdown and the numbers are what they are - the extrapolation that the lockdown has contributed to keeping figures well down is borne out in Imperial College's Covid-19 Reports, where they have constantly been modelling such things as predicted deatths and infections (with and without interventions). The reality that has come to pass is of course WITH interventions, and the models (for the UK) that I was looking at were accurate within 10% - which I think is pretty good. (I've not been assiduously following ALL their work through this - just dropping in and out - but very well worth a read - though rather dry....)

 

I'm not crying 'it'll be worse in two weeks' - although it could well be - I don't know. I AM saying we will learn a lot about transmission, as much from who doesn't get it as well as who does.........

 

I'm working with Theatres on how to sort the practical problems in order to function - which means I have to understand air-flows of H-VAC, and mitigate those risks where possible, as well as the more mundane issues of isolating equipment, costumes, access equipment, single operator-only issues, re-training first aiders for amended Coronary/pulmonary interventions (or whatever, and not personally!). I, like many other individuals and companies are trying to find sensible and creative ways to help get things moving again whilst making things as safe as possible. I also found out today that one of my cousins has had it rather badly, and has not recovered, being in and out of hospital for several months in a great deal of pain.

 

I get that we shouldn't be completely Doom & Gloom, because we have to move forward - but we have to ensure that we don't get blase about the issue either.  

 

Best

 

Giles

[PaulRhB]

5 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

As enthusiasts that's something we should take on the chin with full understanding. However, it's a bit different for the more casual visitor.

Bang on there and I suspect such a difference in cost will also cause some to question their usual early bird attendance so I suspect your tier idea may just push the rush later   
Question is if it does how do you control the numbers at 12 and 14:00 if you do get a big peak as it does encourage a peak at the beginning of each period as people will want to maximise value for their money rather than spread throughout the next two hours and I guarantee they’ll queue from half an hour before to avoid an extra £3-5  

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

I guarantee they’ll queue from half an hour before to avoid an extra £3-5  

 

Won't they just.

 

I can visualise an online ticketing system akin to that of Cadbury World (and I'm sure other attractions) where when you are booking the tickets you are given 10 minute entrance time slots so hopefully most of the queue management can be done at the PC rather than the door. Maybe early arrivals can be 'kettled' in pens based on their ticket time  - events at agricultural grounds may have an advantage here - and only released on time to keep the 'Twirlys' away from the entrance desk.

 

It turns the balance of the line of advanced ticket holders on its head with queuing up at the door before entrance time to be a self-defined privilege rather than an entitlement to check ones watch every 30 seconds, tut and say to the next bloke in line "You'd think they'd let us in a bit earlier".

 

It's not perfect but maybe the sport for event organisers is to watch out for those holding back until 14.01.

[DutyDruid]

2 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Just an idea to help control numbers and have different price incentives. (Plus some useful ideas)

 

 

Point taken Andy, at the request of the venue (who actually sell our Tyvek wristbands for us) we did investigate advanced ticketing last year but had to give up because administering it got too difficult, plus everyone else wanted their cut.  One of the things put us off was the problem of people rocking up and saying that their wristband hadn't arrived in the post and demanding a replacement when in fact they had already given their wristband to someone else (had that happen at another show I'm involved with).  

 

That said, it might be time for the Club to investigate an e-commerce solution to sell a voucher that could be exchanged for a wristband at a separate desk at the entrance, scan a barcode (from the punter's phone if necessary) to check that the ticket(s) haven't already been issued, and make sure that the timing is right if you are using "differential pricing",  and away you go.

 

Hmm...

[AY Mod]

4 minutes ago, DutyDruid said:

One of the things put us off was the problem of people rocking up and saying that their wristband hadn't arrived in the post and demanding a replacement when in fact they had already given their wristband to someone else

 

I wish I could say I'm surprised; but I'm not.

[4630]

40 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

As enthusiasts that's something we should take on the chin with full understanding. However, it's a bit different for the more casual visitor.

 

With a possible move towards online ticketing with a choice of admission times to control numbers and capacity maybe we should be supporting tiered pricing; more expensive at the beginning of the event and reducing later in the day to appeal to casual/non-enthusiast visitors. Also most shows have a 66/33 split Saturday to Sunday so maybe tiered pricing can adjust that balance. Taking your new £10 entrance as a base maybe it could be tiered as:

Saturday

10.00+ admission £15

12.00+ admission £10

14.00+ admission £8

Sunday

10.00+ admission £12

12.00+ admission £9

14.00+ admission £7

 

Just an idea to help control numbers and have different price incentives.

 

 

That looks interesting.

 

What might be described, slightly tongue in cheek, as the 'Ryanair' pricing model as applied to exhibition admission charges.  

 

Having had some professional experience of product pricing much earlier in my career it always seemed to me to be a curious mix of behavioural science, economics, the black arts and gut feel. 

 

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

51 minutes ago, DutyDruid said:

 

Sadly, I'm afraid I can't agree.

£3400 spread over 1500 paying tickets in round terms is around £2.25 extra per ticket

Current ticket price should be £7.50 (but we were actually planning to hold the price at £7 this year), that means I'm going to be charging a tenner, that's approaching a 33% hike in admission.

 

One other thing that might need factoring is cleaning. I'm thinking barriers, cafe tables, door handles and all 'touch points' - as I have said before I actually work at a visitor attraction which has already opened and they have cleaners cleaning all of that and more at least every hour.

[AY Mod]

Just now, 4630 said:

the 'Ryanair' pricing model as applied to exhibition admission charges

 

Brilliant. Excess baggage charges. Priority leg room distancing stick. Toilet levy (cue increased catheter and bag sales). It's the new normal.  

[4630]

Just now, AY Mod said:

 

Brilliant. Excess baggage charges. Priority leg room distancing stick. Toilet levy (cue increased catheter and bag sales). It's the new normal.  

 

Excess charges for back packs has got to be a sure fire winner!   

[RJS1977]

3 hours ago, Geoff Endacott said:

The limiting factor is not so much who will be willing to attend an exhibition but who will be willing to run one. The people at greatest risk will be those on the cash desk selling and checking tickets. No amount of online booking of advance tickets and cashless payment methods will do away with the need for someone to check tickets on the door. Those who do the job in our club tend to be the older or less active members because it's a job they can do sitting down. They also tend to be those at most risk from the virus. I can cope with greatly reduced attendance because costs can be reduced accordingly. What I can't do is organise a show without club members who are willing to volunteer for the public facing roles. I think it may be some considerable time before enough people feel comfortable enough to do that.

 

Geoff Endacott

 

One mitigation for the people on the cash desks/ticket checks might be a a roll-up transparent screen, possibly with a small hole in it at table level to allow cards/tickets etc to be passed through. I've seen some advertised online for about £40.

 

They're a sort of a cross between a roller banner and a booking office ticket window!

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, andyman7 said:

 

I would be surprised if there isn't a show or two before a vaccine is available. Attendance is of course entirely voluntary!

As, under the circumstances, will the the risk of bankruptcy for the organisers....

 

Whatever the precautions on offer, the problem is that you have to take them on trust until you get in, which might be too late.

 

Even if I were convinced by advance publicity, anything with restricted entry arrangements that meant I could only stay for an hour or two would severely reduce the distance I'd be willing to travel.

 

John

[APOLLO]

16 minutes ago, 4630 said:

 

Excess charges for back packs has got to be a sure fire winner!   

 

 Add a fiver for each yard of Peco track sticking out also !!

 

What will be missed by most is the social side of exhibitions, many attend in smallish groups, meet others to chat and socialist. If you are to be shepherded around alone in a strict, time constrained social bubble with "professional"  guards and bouncers barking at you then all the fun has gone, as I will have also.

 

My twin girls attended (in the first time since March or so) their Karate Club held at the same venue as the cancelled Wigan Model railway Exhibition - Robin Park Leisure Centre  Wigan, which has re-opened (sort of). Karate is now "socially distanced" - Strict hygiene etc routines followed, no visitors (parents etc).  There was no "one on one" but the Katas (moves) etc are followed, along with discussion - certainly a very much changed routine. At least this club is trying to adapt and survive in the new era.

 

Going forward is anyone's guess though.

 

Brit15

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 (cue increased catheter and bag sales).

A rucksack you really don’t want to be hit by! 

[ardbealach]

I thought a catheter was something that was used to make coffee!!

[PaulRhB]

3 minutes ago, ardbealach said:

I thought a catheter was something that was used to make coffee!!

Do they usually ask for tea after the first visit at your house?
 

[AY Mod]

6 minutes ago, ardbealach said:

I thought a catheter was something that was used to make coffee!!

 

I am worried about visiting your club again. 

[APOLLO]

Buy one of these - holds 20 yards of Peco track also.

 

 

Brit15

[Gilbert]

12 minutes ago, ardbealach said:

I thought a catheter was something that was used to make coffee!!

Only some coffee....