Exhibition cancellations (not much to do with that anymore!)

[Andy Hayter]

54 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

 

 

It's not just 'young' people who are stupid and not all young people are stupid of course. I'd chuck the bunch of selfish idiots with an infected person/s who went on a coach pub-crawl from S.Wales to Doncaster for the races and back in solitary for a bit.  

 

And they did not even have tickets to get into the races.  Stupidity and selfishness at its peak - well until the next set of *****.

[298]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

Chuck the teachers in from the school in Bacup too. Thickheads. 

 

That's a bit harsh, Comic Sans (the font used in the letter home to parents) isn't as derided as it used to be and now it has matured is quite a useful font.

[griffgriff]

3 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Chuck the teachers in from the school in Bacup too. Thickheads. 

TBF the Head sounded miffed just because he wasn’t invited.

 

GRIFF

[john new]

The meetings previously expected to be able to run at our Teesside Centre (Coulby Newham, Nr Middlesbrough) this autumn have now also had to be called off. 

 

Our meeting programme at the Godalming Centre is currently the only one still in the active list. See edit below.

 

Cancelled (Updated 3rd October)  - the autumn indoor meetings programmes are now off at Kendal, Kidderminster, Manchester, Middlesbrough (both venues) & Newcastle upon Tyne. - Ayrshire meetings programme is now also off until at least January at the earliest

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by john new
Ayrshire moved from still on into the off listing.

[Dunsignalling]

And the F-Wit grockle in East Devon who, asked why he wasn't wearing a face covering, replied "You don't have it down here, do you". (Almost makes you want to believe in Eugenics).

 

Actually, we do, and the couple next door have just today gone out for the first time since recovering from it.

 

However, most folk round here have interconnected brain cells and use them, so we have rather less of it than average. HINT - We'd rather like it to stay that way. 

 

John   

Edited September 17, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[john new]

43 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

And the F-Wit grockle in East Devon who, asked why he wasn't wearing a face covering, replied "You don't have it down here, do you". (Almost makes you want to believe in Eugenics).

 

Actually, we do, and the couple next door have just today gone out for the first time since recovering from it.

 

However, most folk round here have interconnected brain cells and use them, so we have rather less of it than average. HINT - We'd rather like it to stay that way. 

 

John   

 

We are also getting the nutters here in Dorset too - see notes in the link. https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/18729089.dorset-police-caught-200-speeders-one-week-one-road-campaign/

 

Went swimming this week off the Chesil (Big stones) and a group of six young women thought having a big blow up Lilo type thing afloat and waving glass bottles of wine about whilst they failed to stand up on it was a good thing. Sadly this year we seem to be getting the type of grockle that normally heads to the Med!

 

(Sadly I guess they were locals!)

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by john new

[John M Upton]

Ally Pally Model Engineering Exhibition now cancelled:

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/news/london-model-engineering-exhibition-2021-cancelled

 

Still got my fingers crossed for Ally Pally in March but this has dented my confidence a bit...

[TEAMYAKIMA]

On 16/09/2020 at 15:47, PMP said:

At your work, if you have 7 people who want to view one artefact simultaneously eg a statue at close quarters, how is that managed? Eg 3 x2 Person families, not connected + 1 solo visitor, or 7 solo’s

 

I am not saying this as any kind of formal statement of policy from my employers, I am merely expressing a personal interpretion of how the system works.

 

Firstly the attraction is limited to approximately 33% of normal capacity. The attraction is open for up to 13 hours a day and an average visit is 2-3 hours.

 

There are interactors placed around exhibits to instruct/advise visitors against crowding. There are queuing lines laid out for popular exhibits, Queue lines are laid out with social distancing restrictions.

 

Tickets now only sold as a maximum of six. Any existing bookings of 7/8 (the previous maximum) are asked to rebook.

 

All visitors are only allowed in at certain times - not sure but I think it's every 20 minutes - each set of visitors is shown a video and given updated info/advice/instructions on how they are expected/required/requested to behave.

 

One a slightly different topic ....

 

Perhaps one big difference between where I work and an exhibition is that where I work was always laid out as a ONE WAY system. That was always the theory, that was always enforced in theory - now it is enforced more vigorously.  Imagine a model railway exhibition where there are 80 stands - layouts, traders and demos. You get to stand 75 but you want to go back to stand 60 - you have to go to the end of the exhibition and then start again at stand 1 and work your way around to stand 60 and there are stewards spread around to enforce that one way route.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by TEAMYAKIMA

[Andy Hayter]

It might be possible to have crossover points where you could backtrack without going all the way round - a bit like the hidden shortcuts in Ikea.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

1 minute ago, Andy Hayter said:

It might be possible to have crossover points where you could backtrack without going all the way round - a bit like the hidden shortcuts in Ikea.

 

 

As regards my comments regarding where I work - YES, there is such a system. Visitors can be escorted by stewards via a 'back way' open usually only to staff, but the person escorting the visitors has to radio all other staff to warn them to clear a path for the visitors as it is down (relatively) narrow corridors.

 

In other words there are many staff members on duty to manage the flow of visitors.

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

In other words there are many staff members on duty to manage the flow of visitors.

And that’s what will make it impossible for many shows, we struggle to get enough on steward duties normally, without more required, and then there’s the potential conflict it will cause with awkward characters! 
I’ve seen enough obstinate and rude behaviour at shows without the complication of social distancing added to the mix as they’ll be shouting you down for invading their space  It only takes one or two to cause a ruckus which is unfortunately the biggest problem in all this discussion. 1-2% could call police about their bubble and end up shutting down the show, because they can’t think it through as it’s all me me me. 
I went out last night to a pub with a large garden and although people were at a glance keeping to groups of six several those groups were swapping people around regularly which kinda defeats the point. The pub was doing an excellent job with their one way system and staff serving to tables but they couldn’t monitor those outside all the time. We just sat off to the side so no one had to pass us which allowed us to follow the rules easily but some just can’t be bothered or want to make their selfish point. 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by PaulRhB

[johnb]

Marlow Maidenhead & District MRC regret that the show planned for 9th January 2021 at Cox Green Community Centre has been cancelled. The Centre has been booked for 8th Jan 2022.

[Nearholmer]

There's a bit of "devil may care" and genuine stupidity (like everything else, human intelligence is distributed on some sort of bell curve) in failures to properly social distance, but I think that the key difficulty is that it actually requires constant vigilance and effort to achieve it - its hard work, because we are hard-wired social animals.

 

Let your guard down for a moment, and its easy to make a mistake. Add alcohol, the entire purpose of which is to loosen social inhibitions, and SD leaves swiftly by the nearest exit.

 

Maintaining SD with close friends or with family who don't live in the same household is especially hard, because again we are wired to regard one another as anything but threatening - more comforting to be close to than threatening.

 

Anyway, back to model railway exhibitions: bar travelling on the tube in rush hour or perhaps going to a big footy match, they are about the most "squashed-up against a load of strangers" things I would normally be involved in and I can usually trace one head cold each winter to going to one! Trying to run them now, or for the foreseeable future, seems like a complete non-starter to me, utterly inconceivable.

 

Apart from organisers of big shows who have to work on 12+ month horizons, we might as well all forget about the idea for six months, then reconsider in the spring to see whether either (a) conventional events can re-start in the then foreseeable future, or (b) whether a new format for new times can be devised.

 

(on that last point, I do wonder whether an outdoor event in high summer, each layout in its own tent/pavilion, and controlled numbers in each tent at any time, might be workable. Hire the school sports field, rather than the school hall. A model railway fete.)

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Dunsignalling]

Layouts standing on temporary floors laid on grass with tents over them basically don't work, or not for long, anyway. They go out of level, the heat and/or humidity get to them, you name it. 

 

Been there, done it, wouldn't do it again at any price. 

 

John

[Ravenser]

20 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Or they will just go out earlier to go home with someone earlier.

 

The time of day isn't going to stop people doing what they will do and things like Tinder solve the issue of finding someone.

 

Closing the pubs at 10pm is NOT a curfew. A curfew is when the police can arrest you for being outside your home during certain hours, as in Melbourne . Or , in drastic cases where soldiers are authorised to shot anyone on the streets... 

 

I'm old enough to remember when all pubs had to close at 11pm , nationwide, by law. This went on for many decades . Nobody ever called it a curfew . We called it "Closing time"

 

As a practical measure it will seriously curb the "lads' [and girls'] night out" , and it should make it relatively difficult to go to 2 or 3 pubs during a night out. Since there's clear evidence that's one significant way the virus spreads, that will reduce transmission. But it's far less damaging for the pubs than a total shutdown

[PaulRhB]

15 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I do wonder whether an outdoor event in high summer, each layout in its own tent/pavilion, and controlled numbers in each tent at any time, might be workable)

Who’s supplying and tying down 15-20 tents, it’ll cost a fortune to hire them, then the well documented security issue  

No I think patience as you said at the top is the best option, trials are in progress so there’s quite a lot of optimism that one or more useful vaccines will significantly lower the risks if not fully eliminate them. 

[TheQ]

13 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

There's a bit of "devil may care" and genuine stupidity (like everything else, human intelligence is distributed on some sort of bell curve) in failures to properly social distance, but I think that the key difficulty is that it actually requires constant vigilance and effort to achieve it - its hard work, because we are hard-wired social animals.

 

Let your guard down for a moment, and its easy to make a mistake. Add alcohol, the entire purpose of which is to loosen social inhibitions, and SD leaves swiftly by the nearest exit.

 

Maintaining SD with close friends or with family who don't live in the same household is especially hard, because again we are wired to regard one another as anything but threatening - more comforting to be close to than threatening.

 

Anyway, back to model railway exhibitions: bar travelling on the tube in rush hour or perhaps going to a big footy match, they are about the most "squashed-up against a load of strangers" things I would normally be involved in and I can usually trace one head cold each winter to going to one! Trying to run them now, or for the foreseeable future, seems like a complete non-starter to me, utterly inconceivable.

 

Apart from organisers of big shows who have to work on 12+ month horizons, we might as well all forget about the idea for six months, then reconsider in the spring to see whether either (a) conventional events can re-start in the then foreseeable future, or (b) whether a new format for new times can be devised.

 

(on that last point, I do wonder whether an outdoor event in high summer, each layout in its own tent/pavilion, and controlled numbers in each tent at any time, might be workable)

 

 

A quick look at tent / marquee hire and you are talking of about £100 a tent per day minimum, that's 4M by 4M. Ok you could probably get a deal for several of them. but I think the costs are unworkable..

[TheQ]

3 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

Closing the pubs at 10pm is NOT a curfew. A curfew is when the police can arrest you for being outside your home during certain hours, as in Melbourne . Or , in drastic cases where soldiers are authorised to shot anyone on the streets... 

 

I'm old enough to remember when all pubs had to close at 11pm , nationwide, by law. This went on for many decades . Nobody ever called it a curfew . We called it "Closing time"

 

As a practical measure it will seriously curb the "lads' [and girls'] night out" , and it should make it relatively difficult to go to 2 or 3 pubs during a night out. Since there's clear evidence that's one significant way the virus spreads, that will reduce transmission. But it's far less damaging for the pubs than a total shutdown

Bell ring, Last Orders please!!!!   (at 10:50)

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 minute ago, TheQ said:

Bell ring, Last Orders please!!!!   (at 10:50)

10.20 in many parts of the country.

[woodenhead]

16 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

Closing the pubs at 10pm is NOT a curfew. A curfew is when the police can arrest you for being outside your home during certain hours, as in Melbourne . Or , in drastic cases where soldiers are authorised to shot anyone on the streets... 

 

I'm old enough to remember when all pubs had to close at 11pm , nationwide, by law. This went on for many decades . Nobody ever called it a curfew . We called it "Closing time"

 

As a practical measure it will seriously curb the "lads' [and girls'] night out" , and it should make it relatively difficult to go to 2 or 3 pubs during a night out. Since there's clear evidence that's one significant way the virus spreads, that will reduce transmission. But it's far less damaging for the pubs than a total shutdown

Its a defacto curfew - the only places open that late are hospitality and they are shut, if you cannot mix socially even in your own home then effectively is is a curfew.

 

Latest just now from the BBC - it's spreading

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54194804

[Nearholmer]

6 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Who’s supplying and tying down 15-20 tents, it’ll cost a fortune to hire them, then the well documented security issue  

 

13 minutes ago, TheQ said:

A quick look at tent / marquee hire and you are talking of about £100 a tent per day minimum, that's 4M by 4M.

 

Firstly, at this stage I'm musing not proposing - desperate measures may be necessary if we are to share our toy trains publicly again.

 

Secondly, I think you vastly underestimate the determination, commitment, ingenuity, and all-round obsessiveness of hobbyists.

 

Vintage vehicle rallies run on a "bring your own tent if you need one" basis, and I used to be big-into C17th re-enactments, where multiple groups had the resources to create a pop-up tented vllage for a weekend. We used to cart a lot of gear about, much of it heavier and more cumbersome than a modern 4m x 4m pavilion and a model railway.

 

Mind you, security for those events, which was also a genuine issue, with a lot of portable and valuable gear on-site, tended to be a bit self-policing, because  everyone was armed to the teeth with replica weapons!

[Phil Parker]

The more I look at the latest restrictions, which include a ban on using public transport, I'm forced to face the idea that despite half-hearted protestations, we are in for a second country-wide lockdown in the next few weeks. Looking at all the local lockdowns, none of these have been lifted in any meaningful way despite changes in numbers, so the national version is likely to become permanent - or at least "while a vaccine is made available" which is as good as.

 

On the plus side, it's going to mean a lot more modelling time for some, on the downside, the economic crash means the government makes toy train shows the least of our worries.

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 

Firstly, at this stage I'm musing not proposing - desperate measures may be necessary if we are to share our toy trains publicly again.

 

Secondly, I think you vastly underestimate the determination, commitment, ingenuity, and all-round obsessiveness of hobbyists.

 

Vintage vehicle rallies run on a "bring your own tent if you need one" basis, and I used to be big-into C17th re-enactments, where multiple groups had the resources to create a pop-up tented vllage for a weekend. We used to cart a lot of gear about, much of it heavier and more cumbersome than a modern 4m x 4m pavilion and a model railway.

 

Mind you, security for those events, which was also a genuine issue, with a lot of portable and valuable gear on-site, tended to be a bit self-policing, because  everyone was armed to the teeth with replica weapons!

Is a replica Pike just a Pike - like you say who is going to go up against a bunch of enthusiasts in armour carrying 'replica' weapons

[Nearholmer]

There are regulations/conventions about replica weapons being 'blunted', no edges less than 1/16" radius, and tips not less that 1/2" radius, IIRC, and they are enforced by inspectors appointed by groups like the Sealed Knot, ECWS etc, but a 3ft sword or an 18ft pike wielded by someone trained in their use are not things to tangle with, even if blunted.

 

The main security issues TBH seemed to be around opportunistic pilferage by "the public" and, dare I say it, "insiders". Gunpowder, which was always a serious concern, was very tightly secured, controlled, and guarded, for safety as well as theft reasons.

 

Garden railway events might be another thing to learn from - I think one or two of them are "tented", and isn't some of the GCR "distributed exhibition" also tented?

Edited September 18, 2020 by Nearholmer

[RJS1977]

11 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Is a replica Pike just a Pike - like you say who is going to go up against a bunch of enthusiasts in armour carrying 'replica' weapons

 

What's the name of your weapon?

Don't tell him, Pike!