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Exhibition cancellations (not much to do with that anymore!)


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11 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Well I am sorry to play Cassandra here but you have to ask yourself what realistically will change between now and November.

 

What will change is people's willingness, and indeed ability, to accept the continuing imposition of social distancing for months on end, quite possibly with no resolution in sight; We have seen recently mass defiance of the rules, after less than three months. Of course, if Government instruction requires 2m social distancing to remain in force, any gathering that involves many people in close proximity cannot be organised, whether that is a model train or motorcycle show, sports event, concert, etc.... Nor would I expect anyone to feel they are putting themself at risk at such an event, whether as exhibitor, trader or visitor.

 

However I cannot help thinking that at some stage, in the greater interest of overall physical and mental health, even if the virus has not been conquered or eliminated, normal human activity will have to be allowed to resume, and Governments (not just ours) will recognise that, even if there is still a risk of catching the virus. Because there are risks involved in life already; Think of the annual carnage on our roads, not to the same level as the virus of course, but it could be practically eliminated overnight by a national 20mph speed limit on every road, everywhere. But that has never been imposed, nor ever will be, because it would cripple the country economically and socially......which is exactly what is occurring now with the virus.

 

 

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It may be worth considering that with schools being caught in this strange limbo, they are only just getting round to considering whether or not to continue with hiring their premises out.

 

I know that Worthing MRC's exhibition venue has, in its daytime role, been preparing for the return of over 1000 students* since mid-April, as well as preparing for the start of the next school year in September. However, the question of hiring premises for exhibitions, sports clubs, choirs and other activities has had to go on the back burner and many schools are only just getting round to making these decisions - quite understandably. Therefore, if a club makes the decision to postpone a show earlier on, this helps the school as it avoids them having to disappoint the hirer, and their audience, later on in the season.

 

*That does not mean that 1000 students will return to school before the start of the summer holidays.

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1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

Magnet have not changed their T&Cs to my knowledge but there were already specific exclusions to the policy as below.

 

So, no; any event cancellation costs under the current situation will not be covered under their insurance.

 

In fairness, Magnet very kindly refunded premiums for cancelled shows (at least earlier in the year.)  But we can't guarantee that this will continue.

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7 minutes ago, snitchthebudgie said:

 

In fairness, Magnet very kindly refunded premiums for cancelled shows (at least earlier in the year.)  But we can't guarantee that this will continue.

 

Thanks for that input and I agree that is very helpful of Magnet, but refunding premiums is very different to paying out for expenses incurred such as non-refundable printing costs, non-refundable hall deposits, non-refundable hotel bookings.

 

However, maybe in these troubled times hall owners and hotels will be amenable (forced by circumstances) to share some of the risk. A hotel which might otherwise be empty might be prepared to agree to refund deposits if an event is cancelled by government decree, likewise venues. It just depends at the time how desperate they are for business.

Edited by TEAMYAKIMA
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23 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

However, maybe in these troubled times hall owners and hotels will be amenable (forced by circumstances) to share some of the risk.

 

Some may be but I have also heard of an instance which is the opposite with a venue transferring any potential loss of availability or revenue wholly onto the organiser. It would be diligent of any organiser to make sure terms are fair before agreeing to any future or rescheduled booking.

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CANCELLED - Seaboard Southern American Train Show, Sat 19th Sept 2020

 

Having waited to see how the current Covid-19 situation might unfold the Seaboard Southern group have reluctantly decided that, given the current circumstances, holding their 2020 show would not be in the best interests of visitors, the venue, traders & exhibitors or the group membership alike. Thus we are cancelling this year’s show but we are aiming to be back on Sat 18th Sept 2021

Edited by warbonnetuk
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Cancellation will almost certainly be by the venue owners or jointly with the venue owners. As they will have failed to fulfill their part of the contract then they have to return any deposit. As the venue owners will be up a financial gum tree it may be reasonable to agree that the deposit can be used as the deposit for next year. That way everyone has the best chance of surviving.

 

 

In reality any deposit for the venue will be the only major spend.

 

Trade exhibitors sometimes have to pay a deposit for trade space at an exhibition. I can see that many trade exhibitors will need their deposit back just to keep their heads above water. 

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56 minutes ago, God's Wonderful Railway 1835 said:

The thing is if the 2 m rule remains and the exhibition can be run the, show organisers will most likely have to reduce the amount of layouts/trade stands/demonstration by at least 60% and might be closer to 75%  to comply with the 2 M gaps in all cases as, the room has to be at least 52 feet (16 M) wide just to have one row of layouts on each side of the hall and enough room and people standing watching with people able to walk down the middle both ways and, if you want a double row of layouts down the middle as well you will need at least 100 feet (30 M) to do this. The second option could be reduced by 13 feet (4 M) if a one way was introduced.  The first option would have only 4 punters max across the room and the second option will have 6 to 8 punters max across the room depending if a one way system is in place or not. If the room is 100 feet long (30 M) and the single row it will be a max of 60 punters in the room at one time and 120 punters if the double row 

 

 


What  about the number of people actually standing watching layouts? 
Would your 120 punters  need 240m of layout frontage?
To me that would be the limiting factor.

Edited by BoD
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The first of 2021. Just seen that the Bristol Gauge O Show at the end of January has been cancelled as the venue is being used as a covid hospital and if that's not required the venue will be in use as a socially distancing teaching area.

 

Marc

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4 hours ago, Furness Wagon said:

The first of 2021. Just seen that the Bristol Gauge O Show at the end of January has been cancelled as the venue is being used as a covid hospital and if that's not required the venue will be in use as a socially distancing teaching area.

 

Marc

 

 

Not surprised. An unfortunate but understandable result of the current situation. 

 

Rob  

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8 hours ago, Chris M said:

Cancellation will almost certainly be by the venue owners or jointly with the venue owners. As they will have failed to fulfill their part of the contract then they have to return any deposit. As the venue owners will be up a financial gum tree it may be reasonable to agree that the deposit can be used as the deposit for next year. That way everyone has the best chance of surviving.

 

In reality any deposit for the venue will be the only major spend.

 

Trade exhibitors sometimes have to pay a deposit for trade space at an exhibition. I can see that many trade exhibitors will need their deposit back just to keep their heads above water. 

 

 

We have had our deposit rolled over to next year and an agreement that the fee for next year will be the same as it was going to be this year - our original 3 year rolling contract had an agreed increase each year but that is not being charged.

 

All traders have been offered a full refund of their deposit but all have agreed that they can be held over to next time. The deposit is only £30 and so I would suggest that anyone who needed that to keep their head above water was in the wrong business !!

 

Our only cost has been for the printing of 10,000 double sided colour flyers - insurance refunded and no hotel deposits paid.

 

Mike

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On 04/06/2020 at 09:26, lyneux said:

Thanks Andy. I wonder why section (e) doesn't talk about national governments as well as local authorities?

 

Guy

Because many exhibitions take place in either (a) local authority owned premises, or (b) premises / events for which a local authority licence, or their agreement may be required.

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On 04/06/2020 at 09:26, lyneux said:

Thanks Andy. I wonder why section (e) doesn't talk about national governments as well as local authorities?

 

Guy


Other than warfare previously there have been very few things that central government would introduce a ban for: the last national government imposed bans I can remember being introduced before this crisis were the three day week, the ban on travelling to be a flying picket and livestock movements due to the F&M outbreak. Most things I can think of that could cause a show to be cancelled would be weather related and/or locally imposed. I guess policy renewals will see revised terms added to close that gap.

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On 05/06/2020 at 12:55, br2975 said:

Because many exhibitions take place in either (a) local authority owned premises, or (b) premises / events for which a local authority licence, or their agreement may be required.

 

Just to complicate matters a little, many schools (certainly in England) which were under LEA control are now academies, including quite a few primary schools. Therefore, they are not controlled by the LEA, instead these academies are run by academy trusts who are funded directly from central government. They make their own decisions about how their individual academy schools are run, without little or any intervention from the local LEA.

 

This does not stop a local authority from shutting down events, however, there is this additional level of power/decision-making that has to be considered here. What complicates this is that sometimes, the academy trust may not reside in the same part of the country as the academy school, so a decision taken in Cheshire may affect a school in West Sussex, simply because that West Sussex school/academy is owned by a company over 200 miles away.

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While we hold our show in a private school ( The Grammar School at Leeds) we have not had news from them yet about our show in October. Further news will be sent out mid July.

 

Baz

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Hello

 

        I have received word that the re-scheduled Trainwest 2020 in October has now been cancelled.

 

                                                                                                 Cheers

 

                                                                                                             George

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I can't see why exhibitions for October and November are being cancelled now as we cannot reliably predict where we will be. 

 

I imagine many exhibition organisers have to pay an advance deposit to the venue. This would seem to be the point where a show is either cancelled or agreed to remain in planning with some written agreement re what happens to the deposit if forced to cancel. 

 

Cancellation of exhibitions can happen within a few weeks of the planned date without problem. With the exception of a venue deposit and a bit of leaflet printing or advertising there no major costs incurred months before an exhibition. As a layout owner I would rather have the unsurity of there being a possibility of a show going ahead in 5 months time than the certainty that it isn't only to find that it could have gone ahead. I accept the chances of exhibitions being allowed by November are no better than 50:50 but there is an admittedly fairly slim possibility that social distancing will no longer be necessary by then.

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2 minutes ago, Chris M said:

I can't see why exhibitions for October and November are being cancelled now as we cannot reliably predict where we will be. 

 

I imagine many exhibition organisers have to pay an advance deposit to the venue. This would seem to be the point where a show is either cancelled or agreed to remain in planning with some written agreement re what happens to the deposit if forced to cancel. 

 

Cancellation of exhibitions can happen within a few weeks of the planned date without problem. With the exception of a venue deposit and a bit of leaflet printing or advertising there no major costs incurred months before an exhibition. As a layout owner I would rather have the unsurity of there being a possibility of a show going ahead in 5 months time than the certainty that it isn't only to find that it could have gone ahead. I accept the chances of exhibitions being allowed by November are no better than 50:50 but there is an admittedly fairly slim possibility that social distancing will no longer be necessary by then.

My thoughts - and I have no inside knowledge:

  1. Withdrawal of layouts
  2. Withdrawal of traders
  3. Reduction in sponsorship
  4. Venue decision beyond control of organisers
  5. Difficulties of organising B&B accommodation and associated financial risk
  6. Reluctance or illness among key volunteers

 

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1 hour ago, Chris M said:

I can't see why exhibitions for October and November are being cancelled now as we cannot reliably predict where we will be. 

 

I imagine many exhibition organisers have to pay an advance deposit to the venue. This would seem to be the point where a show is either cancelled or agreed to remain in planning with some written agreement re what happens to the deposit if forced to cancel. 

 

Cancellation of exhibitions can happen within a few weeks of the planned date without problem. With the exception of a venue deposit and a bit of leaflet printing or advertising there no major costs incurred months before an exhibition. As a layout owner I would rather have the unsurity of there being a possibility of a show going ahead in 5 months time than the certainty that it isn't only to find that it could have gone ahead. I accept the chances of exhibitions being allowed by November are no better than 50:50 but there is an admittedly fairly slim possibility that social distancing will no longer be necessary by then.

Hi Chris,

 

I'm guess by your second line 'I imagine' that you have never organised or been in an organsing team for a show?

 

Whilst on the surface it may seam easy to cancel a show with in a few weeks of the event, its not trust me.

 

Most venues require a deposit which can be up to 50% of the total hire cost which for a show could range from £100 up to £20,000 plus. In the case of one show I know about this amount has to be paid 4 months before the date.

This as I'm sure you will agree not a small sum to risk loosing if you decide to cancel. Most places have it in the contracts that if you cancel and they can't rehire the venue then you for fit the deposit.

 

Then you have hotel costs, to get the best deals you normally have to pay upfront, again this could run in to thosands of pounds, again you won't get this back.

 

So lets say you have sunk £4000 in to venue, hotel, insurance, meals for exhibitors, guides, leaflets and advertising. You expect the expenses to be around £2000 for say 12 layouts. This are what i would call fixed costs and these are ones that have to be paid out no matter what.

 

So to recover your costs you will need at least 1000 people through the door if you charge £6 per adult visitor. Ive not included kids as quite a few shows do free entry these days.

 

Weekend of the show you only get 700 people through the door as people have been put off attending by social distancing etc.

 

The income for the weekend is only £4,200 leaving you with a defecit of £1,800. Now where is this amount coming from, club funds, out of members pockets??

 

This is why shows are cancelling as its a very fine line between the show working and covering costs and not working and someone/people having to put money in to make up the short fall.

Aat the moment with the current news out put of the pupils not going back to school propely in September then i would say shows are going to keep being cancelled until such time as its safe to have lots of people shoulder to shoulder in a hall along with exhibitors, demos etc.

 

Yes it may all change in the next few weeks/couple of months but what happens if it doesn't?

 

My experince of all this,  well I had to cancel a show due to the weather in 2010 and that cost the club nearly £2,000 so i know its not a decision that is made lightly.

 

Thanks

Simon

 

ps ive just seen Nickwoods post about the motorbike show being cancelled, I would expect Warey to have the same decision but that is for them to decide upon and not me.

 

Edited by Mr.S.corn78
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Gilbert

+7  a good dose of realism.  If we cannot organise the opening of schools before September (and no criticism of anyone in that statement) then opening an exhibition a few months further on is not going to be easy.    How wide might aisles have to be?  How much space between layouts/trade stands?  How to control (or not) the numbers present?  Meals/refreshments for exhibitors or even visitors?

If you cannot calculate how many layouts you can accommodate, you don't know how many traders to invite.  You might have to have extra barriers to enforce a one way system and stewards to ensure it is followed.

I would not want to ba an exhibition manager at this time - and I have been one in the past.

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1 hour ago, Mr.S.corn78 said:

Hi Chris,

 

I'm guess by your second line 'I imagine' that you have never organised or been in an organsing team for a show?

 

Whilst on the surface it may seam easy to cancel a show with in a few weeks of the event, its not trust me.

 

Most venues require a deposit which can be up to 50% of the total hire cost which for a show could range from £100 up to £20,000 plus. In the case of one show I know about this amount has to be paid 4 months before the date.

This as I'm sure you will agree not a small sum to risk loosing if you decide to cancel. Most places have it in the contracts that if you cancel and they can't rehire the venue then you for fit the deposit

 

Or an attending trader/society rep. Same hotel fee issue, you either pay more to get refunded or go for a lower no refunds price - for Alley Palley in March we lost the pre-paid hotel fees, not a massive amount compared to others involved in that show but money that would have been better not lost.

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