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Fitting DCC to a Hornby Class 56


pauln
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Hi,

 

Please could anybody point me to a few pics or video that explain how to DCC fit this Hornby 56. The motor and wiring looks rather different to the guides for fitting DCC to Ringfield motored locos. I can't see any guides on here that show this particular type.

 

Thanks

 

 

IMG_9124 2.JPG

Edited by pauln
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1 or both pics should help

I've made the following assumptions

Wires  C & D are pickups  from the read bogie

G & H are the positive to the lights

The heat shrink on G & H covers diodes for directional lighting(not required for DCC)

F is the negative from the front light

E is the negative from the rear light

Ignore A,B & K

 

I would remove & discard the capacitor & ferrite bead & disconnect all wires from the brushes

 

 

 

870951814_HORNby56.jpg.9c147e9d19c2295387e97c5c531f4b83.jpg

 

I have used ping pink for the front light as white on white is a bit hard to see

299f.png.eeb47a3a78c8e0cd00242f2454071ca5.png

 

Hope this helps

John

Edited by John ks
typo
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Just be aware if retaining the filament bulb lighting to ensure the decoder of choice function outputs can handle the load from them. Many are limited to 100mA and unprotected so an overload could damage the decoder.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

Follow up to the request for help. 

 

I managed to wire up a TCS M1 decoder with the harness cut off and the loco runs (well). I even wired up some new LEDs for the headlights with a resistor on each. However ... whilst the light at one end works fine (only on in direction of travel) the other end doesn't work at all. The LED is definitely working. One curious thing (which to anybody with an understanding of electronics may help) is that placing two wires and a bulb across the + and - wires leading to the LED result in the LED turning on. Any ideas please?

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What you are describing has got me baffled 

Where did you connect the lamp Eg was it between "c" & "e" or "C" & "D"

 

 

Is the LED polarity correct?

One thought is that the output of the decoder may be faulty & the extra current drawn by the lamp may be enough to turn on the output??

Have you wired the LEDs & resistors to one of the following drawings ?

 

You could try swapping the connections for the LEDs at the decoder (IE White to "b" & Yellow to "d")

If the fault changes to the other LED Then the decoder is most likely the problem

If the fault stays with the same LED Then the LED or resistor is most likely the problem

 

I Looked up the M1 & as it is a 2 function decoder the next 2 lines are not helpful for this decoder but may help someone who has a decoder with a faulty output

If the decoder output is faulty then use a different output to control that LED

Remapping of the output should make it possible for that LED to be controlled by function button 0 & light in the appropriate direction

 

 

1508343891_ledwiring.jpg.7e244c5fb7a65643211fa887a05a69a8.jpg

 

John

 

 

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Thanks for the reply and your patience in answering questions. All wired up as per the left hand drawing. 

 

I connected the lamp in effect between C and D.  I tried swapping b and d over; the problem did move to the other LED. I will just try reversing the LED polarity although I'd already swapped the LED out so would have to have got it wrong twice.  WIll also replace the resistor. It's all good practice!

 

I have run out of decoders so I will order a couple more and try a new one as well.

 

Paul

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The problem moving to the other LED suggests a faulty decoder function output

The problem shifting to the other LED also suggests the LEDs were wired with the correct polarity & the resistors are OK

I am still perplexed as to why the LED came on when you connecter a lamp across it

 

One last (desperate) thing to try might be to reset the decoder

 

John

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  • 1 month later...
On 17/03/2020 at 00:47, John ks said:

1 or both pics should help

I've made the following assumptions

Wires  C & D are pickups  from the read bogie

G & H are the positive to the lights

The heat shrink on G & H covers diodes for directional lighting(not required for DCC)

F is the negative from the front light

E is the negative from the rear light

Ignore A,B & K

 

I would remove & discard the capacitor & ferrite bead & disconnect all wires from the brushes

 

 

 

870951814_HORNby56.jpg.9c147e9d19c2295387e97c5c531f4b83.jpg

 

I have used ping pink for the front light as white on white is a bit hard to see

299f.png.eeb47a3a78c8e0cd00242f2454071ca5.png

 

Hope this helps

John

I saw a circuit diagram elsewhere and thought it looked complicated, but your diagram makes more sense ... 

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On 18/03/2020 at 15:28, RAF96 said:

Just be aware if retaining the filament bulb lighting to ensure the decoder of choice function outputs can handle the load from them. Many are limited to 100mA and unprotected so an overload could damage the decoder.

Is this why I've seen little kits to upgrade grain of wheat bulb to LED ? 

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In any case, .....am I correct in thinking that this is an old Hornby 56 like a Dapol one? 

Because the newer ones have a central motor, not ringfield type, and possibly working roof fans 

 

Thanks for any help, I've had nothing to do with model railways for twenty years, and feel like I've been left behind by the DCC revolution, 

They used to say, "It's a passing phase, it'll never catch on."......now it's all realistic flange-squeal, and cab lights, 

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4 hours ago, Lee Clarke said:

Is it as simple as that? .....

Yes, for a loco with no lights. Lighting adds a bit to the complexity 

4 hours ago, Lee Clarke said:

In any case, .....am I correct in thinking that this is an old Hornby 56 like a Dapol one? 

Because the newer ones have a central motor, not ringfield type, and possibly working roof fans 

Probably

 

4 hours ago, Lee Clarke said:

Is this why I've seen little kits to upgrade grain of wheat bulb to LED

Yes & they give off less heat. I've seen loco roofs distorted from the heat of a light bulb

 

John 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I've been converting the lighting on one of these to LED, well its the Mainline version. The project started as just a cheap lighting coversion, I didn't even have any LEDs and resorted to recycling some from an old industrial panel. The idea was to merely glue them to the light tubes behind the positions of the lenses. The lighting effect was really good with the exception of the LEDs at the red lenses which didn't appear red enough. As I had no red LEDs, I painted the rear LEDs with red nail varnish and the light now looks correct.

 

By the time I'd finished building / rebuilding / soldering / resoldering  / regluing the lighting units, a couple  DCC units arrived, so I thought I may as well go for it given that the unit was already in bits. I ended up completely removing the motor and resoldered new wires directly to the brushes, I've also used a flexible silicon insulated wire for the new pickup connection. I'm nearly there now, just need some veroboard to make up the bank of LED resistors, the loose wires are in blu tack for now to prevent shorts. The motor is working fine in both directions with both analogue and DCC.

  

Class 56 (1).jpg

Class 56 (2).jpg

Class 56 (3).jpg

Class 56 (4).jpg

Edited by APT Fan
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  • 3 weeks later...

DCC with lighting fitted for less than a tenner!

 

It runs great at low speeds, even better than DC. There does seem to be an issue when the speed gets above say 54 in that it intermittently loses comms and pauses for a second. It occurs after a straight when entering a right hand bend, almost as if the movement in the body causes a disconnection. Its a first radius curve which isn't banked and it isn't great track - the curves are steel rather than nickel steel, so perhaps I'm asking too much. This loco feels a bit lightweight to me and could perhaps benefit from more weight.

 

In the third picture, I've been experimenting with the dimming the lights via CV49/50.

Class_56_(5).jpg

Class 56 (6).jpg

Class_56_(7).jpg

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That looks better than my efforts by a mile. I will have to start again and see if I can do better. I couldn't even work out how to stop the red light from illuminating at the same time as the white lights (it worked ok with the old bulb)

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On some locos you can get away with using bi-colour leds. E.g. red-white or red-yellow. In such a case be aware for DCC you need common anode leds not the more usual common cathode.

 

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On 10/07/2020 at 10:50, RAF96 said:

On some locos you can get away with using bi-colour leds. E.g. red-white or red-yellow. In such a case be aware for DCC you need common anode leds not the more usual common cathode.

 

 

I tried that on this Mainline version, which I think is the same as early Hornby's (as per manual above). Actually it was two small led's a white and a red squeezed into the bulb holder, connected back-to-back with a series resister. I found that there was too much light bleed between the white and red lenses as the light is coming from a single source - I think even the original filament bulb light exhibited this issue, if I remember rightly before promptly removing them! I'd imagine the newer Hornby's have been redesigned judging by some of the pictures I've seen.

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  • RMweb Gold

The old Mainline/Dapol/everybody-and-his-dog/Hornby 56 is capable of drawing more than an amp and overloading some decoders. I found I needed to upgrade mine from Lenz to Digitrax DH163s as they would cut out after a while hauling 36 wagon MGR sets around Ravensclyffe.

 

Andi

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On 14/07/2020 at 23:06, Dagworth said:

The old Mainline/Dapol/everybody-and-his-dog/Hornby 56 is capable of drawing more than an amp and overloading some decoders. I found I needed to upgrade mine from Lenz to Digitrax DH163s as they would cut out after a while hauling 36 wagon MGR sets around Ravensclyffe.

 

Andi

36?? Wow, I don't think I've got that many wagons in total! It might take me a while to get to that level given the price of rolling stock nowadays.

:rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, APT Fan said:

36?? Wow, I don't think I've got that many wagons in total! It might take me a while to get to that level given the price of rolling stock nowadays.

:rolleyes:

I only had a few then, the collection grew a bit, it's grown more since this was taken too

 

haas.jpg.3d6efdb203c827c7f5f129cedd5d207e.jpg

 

There are now more than 250 of them!

 

Andi

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9 hours ago, Dagworth said:

I only had a few then, the collection grew a bit, it's grown more since this was taken too

 

haas.jpg.3d6efdb203c827c7f5f129cedd5d207e.jpg

 

There are now more than 250 of them!

 

Andi

 

That's unbelieveable! It might be considered possibly obsessive?

:D

 

On that subject, as I seem to have developed an obsession for the Class 56, I've treated myself to a brand new Hornby Class 56 to add to my old Mainline  / Dapol models. Its very impressive, incredibly heavy, quiet, smooth runner with great pulling power. Its a very refined model and well detailed but I'll be honest and say that it isn't a massive step up from the Mainline model which was excellent in its day and a real game changer. I would say though that the Hornby would probably eat 36 wagons alive, I wouldn't be surprised if it could pull double that! I don't know would the original prototype haul was but I remember as a kid cycling to Arpley Junction in Warrington to watch 56's hauling huge loads of MGRs from and from the Yorkshire coalfields to Fiddlers Ferry Power station.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just started another Class 56 project, this time I'm using 1206 smd LEDs which seem easier to fit due to the space constraints. I'm also fitting cab lights and stay alive, as the latest controllers I've been buying have at least six functions and stay alive capabilty.

 

I've decided to standardise my installations with the use of the Plux22 connectors for a number of reasons. Firstly it allows me to keep the wiring neat which is becoming an issue as I increase the number of functions and stay alive. Secondly it will allow me to easily exchange decoders between loco's, I'm trialling different manufacturer's and it maybe that I find certain decoder/loco combinations work better together. I'm also finding that I can pickup Plux22 decoders and connectors at a reasonable price, perhaps due to popularity? 

 

 

 

 

Class 56 (8).jpg

Class 56 (11).jpg

Class 56 (9).jpg

Class 56 (10).jpg

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So after fitted LEDs to one end, I been checking the look and sizing up the resistors. There seems to be some light bleed from the front lights into the red lenses even with 10K resistors, I think they are probably OK for brightness, as are the red LEDs with 10Ks. I might need to paint around the bleed area, its a good job I left the masking tape on! I haven't tested the cab light yet, but I'm assuming at least a 10K for that one. I've also bought some 1206 smd resistors, so soldering them should be a good laugh! I have to say that the Class 56 looks really good in this large logo livery, probably my favouite.

 

 

Class 56 (13).jpg

Class 56 (14).jpg

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