Clearwater Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Hi Are there any good books, preferably with lots of pictures, on the GW/GC joint railway? I’m interested in what exGCR locos and carriage stock was forming the services that would have been seen running alongside the long distance GWR services off to WOlverhampton and beyond. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 There's an Ian Allan book called 'Paddington To Wolverhampton', I have a copy tucked away somewhere, it's well worth searching out on Amazon or ebay. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Gough Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 The Final Link https://www.amazon.co.uk/Final-Link-pictorial-history-Western/dp/1870630017/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Dennis+Edwards+great+central&qid=1584477575&s=books&sr=1-2&swrs=1EBF80E8A4EDAC94D8973C95C4F27CEE 1 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Gough Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 And: The Great Western and Great Central Joint Railway (Oakwood Press) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Central-Railway-Oakwood-Library/dp/0853616531/ref=sr_1_9?crid=CSISTYNOSMEV&dchild=1&keywords=oakwood+press+railway+books&qid=1584477784&s=books&sprefix=Oa%2Cstripbooks%2C273&sr=1-9&swrs=EE009ECACCD7E7ED3CA5E18237245EE3 More of a written history, but has a small selection of photos. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 Thanks Nidge and Nick - much appreciated! David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Not clear what period you are interested in? The Oakwood Press book is a good start, but make sure it is the later edition. The earlier was good, but the revised new edition is much better. The early years, 1906 - 1923 are not that well represented in railway books. The use of ex-GCR stock was very limited after 1923, mainly A5's (Robinson 9N's) and the occasional freight loco, such as the Robinson 2-8-0's. 9K's and 9L's were also used in the earlier periods on suburban services. The LNER period is well covered in the literature, and also worth bearing in mind that from 1958 LMR took over the running on ER services, so you need to choose your modelling date carefully! Also worth looking at Dow's volume in "The Great Central Railway" about the London extension (volume 3 of the set). Quote Quote 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) Thanks @jointline my interest is mainly 1930s. Mind you, when I model I’ll take a slight rule 1ish approach to allow myself to run stuff in the gorgeous pre grouping GCR livery. I’ve got the Oakwood on order now - not quite sure which edition mind! David Edited March 18, 2020 by Clearwater Additional point 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Let me know if you want to know anything else. I spent quite some time researching the line for a model of Princes Risborough, so may be able to give more details of some things. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 Thanks @jointline. What time period were you considering? I’ve been more drawn towards Saunderton as a location. David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Middleton Press books cover the line too. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 On 18/03/2020 at 20:51, Clearwater said: Thanks @jointline. What time period were you considering? I’ve been more drawn towards Saunderton as a location. David Well, that's one of the difficulties I had, as I wanted to model it as I remembered it in the 1960's. But there was so much interest in the period before that, especially as Hornby brought out an L1, which was common on the suburban services before LMR took over! You couldn't run different periods at different running sessions, as the LMR did a lot of resignalling. Also the passenger service on the Watlington line ceased in 1956, and I wanted to include that! I realised from the start that I could only do the north part of the station in 4mm, but even that proved impossible, as the signal blocks were unachievable. Still think it would be a fantastic project given the space. Saunderton would be a good choice in 00 I reckon, as it stayed pretty much the same all it's existence. For reference, as has been suggested, the Middleton Press books are excellent, Transport Treasury have a wide selection of photos, and there is also very good reading in the Wild Swan history of the Watlington branch, which covers Princes Risborough in detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 Thanks. I'm very much at the planning / future dream stage but my thought is firmly 30s with 50s as an alternative. I'd prefer to run the LNER/ex-GCR locos rather than LMR. I'd also like to have something further north on the GWR line which therefore allows my through trains to Wolverhampton to pass through this stretch earlier. Saunderton looks a fairly simple station without too many complexities. I think I'm right in understanding some A3s were displaced to the GCR route in the 50s but prior to WW2, most of the services were in the hands of ex-GCR Atlantics? I'll look out for the Wild Swan book. David 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jointline Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Clearwater said: Thanks. I'm very much at the planning / future dream stage but my thought is firmly 30s with 50s as an alternative. I'd prefer to run the LNER/ex-GCR locos rather than LMR. I'd also like to have something further north on the GWR line which therefore allows my through trains to Wolverhampton to pass through this stretch earlier. Saunderton looks a fairly simple station without too many complexities. I think I'm right in understanding some A3s were displaced to the GCR route in the 50s but prior to WW2, most of the services were in the hands of ex-GCR Atlantics? I'll look out for the Wild Swan book. David There were certainly plenty of A3's later on, as well as V2s, B1s and K3s. Suburban were often in the hands of A5s as well as L1s. Freight was of equal importance of course. Haven't researched a great deal on pre-WW2, but you will need to consult books about GCR and LNER, as most pictures are, like it or not, are GW or WR! The Watlington branch book is called "Country Branch Line" and you need volume 2. It's a bit pricey, so you might want just to borrow it from the library! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Clearwater said: Thanks. I'm very much at the planning / future dream stage but my thought is firmly 30s with 50s as an alternative. I'd prefer to run the LNER/ex-GCR locos rather than LMR. I'd also like to have something further north on the GWR line which therefore allows my through trains to Wolverhampton to pass through this stretch earlier. Saunderton looks a fairly simple station without too many complexities. I think I'm right in understanding some A3s were displaced to the GCR route in the 50s but prior to WW2, most of the services were in the hands of ex-GCR Atlantics? I'll look out for the Wild Swan book. David You might find it useful to source a copy of Banks&Carter’s LNER Passenger Trains & Formations 1923-67.Not cheap but full of fascinating material and photography.In fact ,if you can still find a copy at not too steep a price,I recommend you to buy.You will not regret it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D826 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 To fire your imagination heres a table from a lovely book called 'Watching the Trains at Brill' by Robert Avery in 1993 - with loco speeds through Haddenham- the station south of the Ashenden Junction cut off. Look at the loco classes (over a 40 year spread) 43xx, Castle, King, A1, B17, V2, Star and speeds from 76 for the 43xx to 96 for the Castle in 62 with 5 on. But look at the King - 85 with 14 on. What a place to while away the hours. Best regards Matt Wood 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D826 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 On 17/03/2020 at 20:46, Nick Gough said: And: The Great Western and Great Central Joint Railway (Oakwood Press) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Central-Railway-Oakwood-Library/dp/0853616531/ref=sr_1_9?crid=CSISTYNOSMEV&dchild=1&keywords=oakwood+press+railway+books&qid=1584477784&s=books&sprefix=Oa%2Cstripbooks%2C273&sr=1-9&swrs=EE009ECACCD7E7ED3CA5E18237245EE3 More of a written history, but has a small selection of photos. Hello Nick - assuming that's the Nick Gough I worked with. Hope you are well in these very strange times. Best regards Matt Wood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2020 5 hours ago, jointline said: Well, that's one of the difficulties I had, as I wanted to model it as I remembered it in the 1960's. But there was so much interest in the period before that, especially as Hornby brought out an L1, which was common on the suburban services before LMR took over! You couldn't run different periods at different running sessions, as the LMR did a lot of resignalling. Also the passenger service on the Watlington line ceased in 1956, and I wanted to include that! I realised from the start that I could only do the north part of the station in 4mm, but even that proved impossible, as the signal blocks were unachievable. Still think it would be a fantastic project given the space. Saunderton would be a good choice in 00 I reckon, as it stayed pretty much the same all it's existence. For reference, as has been suggested, the Middleton Press books are excellent, Transport Treasury have a wide selection of photos, and there is also very good reading in the Wild Swan history of the Watlington branch, which covers Princes Risborough in detail. If it helps, I have a family photo which must date from late 1959 or early 1960 of an L1 at Beaconsfield. So the LMR did not get rid of them immediately. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2020 47 minutes ago, D826 said: To fire your imagination heres a table from a lovely book called 'Watching the Trains at Brill' by Robert Avery in 1993 - with loco speeds through Haddenham- the station south of the Ashenden Junction cut off. Look at the loco classes (over a 40 year spread) 43xx, Castle, King, A1, B17, V2, Star and speeds from 76 for the 43xx to 96 for the Castle in 62 with 5 on. But look at the King - 85 with 14 on. What a place to while away the hours. Best regards Matt Wood My spotting location (aged 3!) was the overbridge at Beaconsfield. Mum had to order her day around getting down there in time for a down express headed by a King. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D826 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 I remember the MetGC celebrations at Aylesbury in 1992 - Nunney Castle and King Eddy the 1st top and tailing to Quainton. My Dad, Ray Wood, formerly foreman at Neasden LT steam shed, grinned like a maniac at the bark of the King. Theres a fantastic film in YouTube on the foot plate of a King from Taunton to Bristol or Bath. The apex of 4 cylinder 4-6-0s. Matt Wood 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 Thanks @Ian Hargrave - I shall add to my essential purchases list! Matt, @D826, what a table! Captures exactly the sort of mix of stock that I’m interested in. Both LNER and GWR classics both with good loads! I’m going to need some decent space... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallpaul69 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 On 18/03/2020 at 20:43, jointline said: Let me know if you want to know anything else. I spent quite some time researching the line for a model of Princes Risborough, so may be able to give more details of some things. Hi there, The aspect of the Joint line that I am interested in is the trains that ran from Aylesbury/Princes Risborough/High Wycombe to Maidenhead/Taplow/Slough and Paddington because I am modelling based on the Relief Lines and High Wycombe Branch junction at Maidenhead in 1960/2, which I am calling Lower Thames Junction. I have WTTs and Carriage Working Books that give me a lot of detail but I am missing key details on some of the trains, particularly the locos used. Three particular questions:- A key train is the 0540 Parcels from Reading via Maidenhead to Princes Risborough, whose loco returned around 0900 LE to Slough. I have the times and the formation, but what was the usual loco? As many of the Branch trains were hauled by 61xxs or Panniers, I plan to use a 56xx 0-6-2 for this train but is that right? There was a through evening Freight from Slough to the Birmingham area, but what hauled that? In one of the many books covering the Branch it is suggested that coal to the stations on the branch was dropped off by an evening train. Was this the train from Oxford to Slough or dropped at High Wycombe off a freight from Banbury and taken down the branch by the returning Taplow to High Wycombe freight? Any thoughts or facts would be welcome! Many thanks Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 2 hours ago, D826 said: speeds from 76 for the 43xx 76mph with 465 tons behind the drawbar? But the 43XXs were tiny. I’ve often looked at preserved 5322 when I’m crossing the Foxhall car park footbridge at Didcot and I’m always surprised at how small it is compared to the bigger 4-6-0s. Presumably this was a Down run, with the benefit of gravity assistance down the steep descent from Saunderton and the long straight downgrade from Risborough before the level section through Haddenham. I remember Harold Gasson writing about how to get the best out of the 43XXs through skilled use of the dampers, short cut off and full regulator - to whip one up to that kind of speed with that huge load must have taken some expertise. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Gough Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 2 hours ago, D826 said: Hello Nick - assuming that's the Nick Gough I worked with. Hope you are well in these very strange times. Best regards Matt Wood Hi Matt I'm not sure I'm the right one. Where was that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D826 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 11 hours ago, Nick Gough said: Hi Matt I'm not sure I'm the right one. Where was that? Hertford ? I worked with a Nick Gough who had a keen interest in railways. Matt Wood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Gough Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, D826 said: Hertford ? I worked with a Nick Gough who had a keen interest in railways. Matt Wood Sorry Matt Not me - although I do have a keen interest in railways! Regards Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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