Lenz v Zimo

[WIMorrison]

I have been having issues with a Liliput 0-6-2 (new style) which I had put a Lenz Gold Mini decoder into (I had it spare from something or other) and I have spent 2 days trying to make this loco run properly. Ran like a dream on DC (though at the stupidly high Liliput speed) but with the Lenz decoder a max speed of 45kph and nothing would make it run more cleanly.

 

Changed the decoder to a Zimo MX617n and instantly a loco that is running as it should - I have had to change CVs to make it run as I want (CV57=70, CV2=25, CV29=14) but I now have a top speed of 87kph and a bottom speed of 2.4kph with a perfect straight line between them!

 

Lenz has never been a favourite, definitely isn't now.

[Pete the Elaner]

I find it interesting to hear your comment. My only Lenz decoder is not as good as the Zimos fitted in other models.

I have 1 Lenz decoder: a 6 pin Gold Mini. It was the only 6 pin decoder the shop had available but having seen good reports about them on here, I was happy to buy it.

It was for Bachmann 1F. The slowest speed seems to be a bit high, causing it to jump into motion.

A friend bought a similar tank with the same decoder & was not happy at all. We used JMRI to fiddle with speed settings but this did not help.

He decided to swap it out for a Zimo & we have run both together. The Zimo one is noticeably better at slow speed, especially the initial movement.

 

[brossard]

Since I started in 7mm, all but one of my sound decoders are Zimo and absolutely brilliant.  My exception is a Loksound decoder that initially gave me trouble.  I found a procedure called "autotune" that fixed it.  I'm happy it is fixed but Zimo worked well "out of the box".

 

I had some Lenz Silver decoders when doing 4mm and can't recall having an issue.  I'm sure people are aware that there are CVs, that can be tweaked to improve start voltage and momentum.  Hattons branded decoders work well.

 

I also remember throwing out several Hornby decoders that were next to useless.

 

John

[Izzy]

I think Zimo and CT have motor control algorithms that are far above any other makes. Many decoders - but by no means all - are capable of decent control once above a certain motor armature speed, but it is the momentum inertia away from rest where Zimo/CT are totally superior. This is really important for such as myself with small layouts but probably less so with larger ones with long runs.

 

A friend once said to me that if Lenz was the best standard available then he would stick to DC, a sentiment I can only agree with. I can get better momentum away from rest with my simple home made 40 year old emitter/follower DC hand held controllers than many decoders can provide. I couldn't believe how poor they were when I first moved to DCC, and thought I had made a massive mistake until I tried CT and then Zimo.

 

Izzy

[Mike Buckner]

My tuppence worth:

 

All my Zimo are good.

 

All my Lenz are good, particularly at managing Lima locomotives, especially at  low  speed. One Lenz decoder, after a lot of CV adjustment, gave fine control of a Hornby pancake.

 

ESU (non-sound) have a tendency to make motors hum a bit.

 

Hornby R8249, although the Back-EMF  works fairly well, is too basic in its facilities and runs badly on DC - so  poor choice. The Hornby TTS is better.

[Pete the Elaner]

18 hours ago, brossard said:

a Loksound decoder that initially gave me trouble.  I found a procedure called "autotune" that fixed it. 

 

I am a bit wary of that feature.

 

I tried it on my HST & it ran very slowly afterwards, turning a 125 into a 25.

Fortunately I had the settings backed up in JMRI so I was easily able to restore them.

[geoff]

28 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I am a bit wary of that feature.

 

I tried it on my HST & it ran very slowly afterwards, turning a 125 into a 25.

Fortunately I had the settings backed up in JMRI so I was easily able to restore them.

In that instance you need to adjust the reference voltage. See the notes from Steve Weeks, SW Digital, below.

I have found that I have to increase this to a value of around 140 IIRC.

 

Geoff

 

CV 53 (Reference Voltage)

In CV 53, you set the EMF reference voltage generated by the motor at maximum revs. This parameter may have to be adapted subject to the track voltage and the efficiency of the motor.

If the locomotive reaches maximum speed when the throttle is set to about three-quarter and the top third of the throttle has no influence on the speed, then you should reduce the value of CV 53. Reduce the value by 5 – 8 and test the locomotive again. Repeat this process until the locomotive just reaches its maximum speed when the throttle is fully open.

On the other hand, if the locomotive moves too slowly at full throttle then you should increase the value of CV 53 step by step until the maximum speed is reached.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

23 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

I have been having issues with a Liliput 0-6-2 (new style) which I had put a Lenz Gold Mini decoder into (I had it spare from something or other) and I have spent 2 days trying to make this loco run properly. Ran like a dream on DC (though at the stupidly high Liliput speed) but with the Lenz decoder a max speed of 45kph and nothing would make it run more cleanly.

 

Changed the decoder to a Zimo MX617n and instantly a loco that is running as it should...

 

The Gold mini is a 20? year old design now, and well overtaken by later designs. This decoder and the silver mini were noticeably inferior in motor control to the HO size silver and gold at time of introduction, if directly compared on the same mechanism. What had looked like a good option for smaller models was discarded, and I practiced 'void creation' until installing the HO size units was no problem.

 

It is interesting how the market has developed, and changed rapidly quite recently. I used practically nothing but the Lenz Standard for its combination of fine performance and low price, once it became available. The exceptions were a half dozen Zimo MX63/64 for the extra adjustments to tame less capable mechanisms, and these decoders have now each travelled through several mechanisms as 'old and grungy' were replaced by modern and efficient drives well within the compass of the control from a Lenz Standard.

 

It took a long time for Zimo to realise that a fully price competitive alternative to the Lenz Standard might be a good plan, but they have certainly done it now in spades, with the MX600 group of decoders offering every fitting; instead of '8 pin wired and that's your lot'! (Hint to Lenz, halve the price of your standard decoder...)

[brossard]

3 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I am a bit wary of that feature.

 

I tried it on my HST & it ran very slowly afterwards, turning a 125 into a 25.

Fortunately I had the settings backed up in JMRI so I was easily able to restore them.

 

I haven't run m y loco beyond testing to ensure it works.  It is a J39 and on my BLT, it will be lucky to get up to anywhere near 25mph.

 

Anyway, Zimo have been flawless so I will stick to them in the future.

 

John

Edited March 20, 2020 by brossard