[help] Prodigy advance2 outputting DC not DCC

[Matti]

Hello

 

my title is probably incorrect because it’s probably not doing that, hence why I’m stuck.

 

ive tried searching for a variety of things including the voltage I’m seeing on the rails but nothing seems to have the help I’m looking for. So I would super appreciate anyone’s better knowledge on this than mine trying to help me figure this out

 

today I receive some new coaches for my test train IEP class 800. Very excited to see the full train running, I put it into my development layout (which is pretty big) and to my avail, the whole set of trains started whizzing off in any direction. 
 

I immediately cut the power and removed every train and wagon from the track. Switched it on again and noticed that my buffer lights were only showing one LED. I quickly put the track tester on the rails and it showed green. Whilst this indicates a DC layout, why on earth is my prodigy advance 2 only spitting this out?

 

i measured the voltage across the rails and it measured circa 6volts. 
 

I have some dcc concept point controls under the baseboard. These fired up ok and switch just fine. 
 

What’s weird is a few trains didn’t immediately race off when the power was on. 
 

ive hoovered the track, checked for any shorts usually the system would flash and the whole layout / buffer lights would flash whilst a horrendous zap noise takes place on and off. 
 

so I can’t see this as a short. 
 

what’s weird, the system worked fine last night. And as if by magic, having turns it on today - boom

 

help much appreciated as I currently feel like I have a complete waste of a train set that I can’t fix

thanks

matt

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by Matti

[jpendle]

I would get back to basics and disconnect the Prodigy. Then make sure there is no voltage on the track with your track tester or multimeter. Then check the output of the prodigy while it is NOT connected to the track, if it still outputs DC then I suspect taht it may have failed.

 

Also the most likely reason why a DCC equipped loco would not run on DC is that DC running has been switched off in CV29.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Matti]

Hello thanks for the quick reply. Good thoughts! So, first pic below is the voltage on the track with nothing plugged in, is that normal? Am I even using the right setting. 
 

the second picture is what’s usually my program track unplugged from the program terminal and wired into the main track terminal. So this is just regular red and black wire directly soldered to a piece of track. Nothing else. 
 

I’m still Getting this green light / no dcc command :( 

 

why/what would cause the unit to do this overnight :( 

[Matti]

Update test 2: my program track and my test track, when plugged into the program terminal and I fire the “read” command. All work DCC fine. 
 

first pic is programmed track isolation. Second pic (which I’ve never done before is main track in the protean terminal). 
 

what is up with my main track output?

[NIK]

Hi,

 

A possible but basic explanation is that the main output from your DCC command station is malfunctioning.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Matti]

25 minutes ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

A possible but basic explanation is that the main output from your DCC command station is malfunctioning.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

Is there anything I can do about this?

[NIK]

 

12 minutes ago, Matti said:

Is there anything I can do about this?

Hi,

 

It may depend on whether  your command station is still in warranty.

 

If not it may depend if you are experienced in repairing electronics.

 

Hopefully others can advise when they have time.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Matti]

34 minutes ago, NIK said:

 

Hi,

 

It may depend on whether  your command station is still in warranty.

 

If not it may depend if you are experienced in repairing electronics.

 

Hopefully others can advise when they have time.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

Thank you - massively welcome anyone else if you have any thoughts? I've reached out to Gaugemaster too :( Might give the rails team a call tomorrow if anyone here doesn't have any other suggestions :)!

[jpendle]

Hi

 

Is it possible that the Prodigy is stuck in program mode?

On my Z21 system there is no output on the main when I am using the programming track output.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[NIK]

Hi,

 

Its possible from the voltage appearing to be halved and DC being indicated by the tester and the buffer stop LEDs that the circuitry in the DCC command station may only be sending out one 'half' of the DCC signal.

 

There is normally there is a transistor bridge circuit that drives the voltage alternately one way (one half) and then the other at a rate of a few kilohertz.

 

It could be the circuit is only driving one way. Normally two signals (PCB tracks) come from the digital controller to the transistor bridge circuit.

 

Possible causes include transistor failure or an interconnection failure. As it appeared to happen overnight I'd guess its an interconnection failure, inside the DCC command station. If its out of warranty and the mains supply is separate try giving it a firm shake and see what happens (only have it connected to a short piece of track and your DCC tester - keep an eye on the colour of the LED on the tester to see if it changes).

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

Edited March 20, 2020 by NIK
spelling correction

[Brian]

I would if testing myself do the following....First power down PA and pull out the rear green connector. Power back up and see if the handset comes to life?  If it does then try the following.... Power down. Remove all wires from the green plug and connect a temporary pair of test wires to the Track pair of terminals on the green plug. Push green plug back in. Connect this TRACK output pair of wires to a piece of totally separate testing track that is not connected to anything else and then power up the PA.  Does it come to life?  If yes, then power down and place a known working loco on the test track, power up again and check all is still working and try to set locos address and test it forward and back. If ok assume PA is working.  Power down and move track wires to the Programming terminals and power back up. Using the loco from before try to read its address - CV1 If the address appears, try altering it to something else. If it works restore the address back to that of before and consider the PA to be working 100%.   

If any of these fail on a totally separate piece of track or when the green plug is completely removed, then and only then consider the PA to be defective.  

Assuming its a Gaugemaster branded PA, call them directly and arrange for a return.  Or at least speak to them.   Gaugemaster offer one of the very best repair/servicing departments I have come across.  Even if the PA is out of warranty I would still return it to them. I'm not saying they will, but often they will repair their branded electronic items for a small fee or sometimes even for free with you just paying the postage. 

I would not recommend that you open it or send it elsewhere until you have spoken to GM, if its one of their branded PA's.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Brian
Spelling corrected!

[RAF96]

Have you tried resetting the PA2. If it is ‘stuck’ then this may free it. Else it sounds like a component failure indoors.

[ELTEL]

I suggest sending it back to Gaugemaster (phoning there technical team first) as I have found that Gaugemaster will no doubt repair it under warranty 

 

Terry 

[Matti]

11 hours ago, jpendle said:

Hi

 

Is it possible that the Prodigy is stuck in program mode?

On my Z21 system there is no output on the main when I am using the programming track output.

 

Regards,

 

John P

 

On the Prodigy, you can run both main track and program track at the same time usually no problems. The way the program track on it works is; the track is dead unless a command is being written to a decoder. So what you find is, the moment you activate a 'read' or 'write' command on program, then it gives it the juice.

 

8 hours ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

Its possible from the voltage appearing to be halved and DC being indicated by the tester and the buffer stop LEDs that the circuitry in the DCC command station may only be sending out one 'half' of the DCC signal.

 

There is normally there is a transistor bridge circuit that drives the voltage alternately one way (one half) and then the other at a rate of a few kilohertz.

 

It could be the circuit is only driving one way. Normally two signals (PCB tracks) come from the digital controller to the transistor bridge circuit.

 

Possible causes include transistor failure or an interconnection failure. As it appeared to happen overnight I'd guess its an interconnection failure, inside the DCC command station. If its out of warranty and the mains supply is separate try giving it a firm shake and see what happens (only have it connected to a short piece of track and your DCC tester - keep an eye on the colour of the LED on the tester to see if it changes).

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

Nothing appeared loose on the inside, I didn't shake it aggressively but it turned the unit upside down, left to right. I think he main track has just gone kaput

 

4 hours ago, Brian said:

I would if testing myself do the following....First power down PA and pull out the rear green connector. Power back up and see if the handset comes to life?  If it does then try the following.... Power down. Remove all wires from the green plug and connect a temporary pair of test wires to the Track pair of terminals on the green plug. Push green plug back in. Connect this TRACK output pair of wires to a piece of totally separate testing track that is not connected to anything else and then power up the PA.  Does it come to life?  If yes, then power down and place a known working loco on the test track, power up again and check all is still working and try to set locos address and test it forward and back. If ok assume PA is working.  Power down and move track wires to the Programming terminals and power back up. Using the loco from before try to read its address - CV1 If the address appears, try altering it to something else. If it works restore the address back to that of before and consider the PA to be working 100%.   

If any of these fail on a totally separate piece of track or when the green plug is completely removed, then and only then consider the PA to be defective.  

Assuming its a Gaugemaster branded PA, call them directly and arrange for a return.  Or at least speak to them.   Gaugemaster offer one of the very best repair/servicing departments I have come across.  Even if the PA is out of warranty I would still return it to them. I'm not saying they will, but often they will repair their branded electronic items for a small fee or sometimes even for free with you just paying the postage. 

I would not recommend that you open it or send it elsewhere until you have spoken to GM, if its one of their branded PA's.

 

The handset did come to life yes, in the pictures above you'll see I did just that in your first suggestion. I got a spare bit of track, hooked it up to the main track output and it still gives the issue. A known working loco on that test bit of track also gave the same problems. I removed the track altogether and measured voltage across two wires coming out of the power unit, same thing  

 

My program output, works totally fine. DCC commands can be sent and received. [I've put a final comment below :)]

 

2 hours ago, ELTEL said:

I suggest sending it back to Gaugemaster (phoning there technical team first) as I have found that Gaugemaster will no doubt repair it under warranty 

 

Terry 

 

Thank you very much to this community, who all help out of kindness of the hobby.

 

Today, I sent the unit to the wonderful GM team (who got back to me within minutes), and they are going to take a look at it. I know there are bigger things happening in the world right now, than my train set- so I'm ever so grateful for anything they can do.

 

thank you all!

[ELTEL]

1 hour ago, Matti said:

 

On the Prodigy, you can run both main track and program track at the same time usually no problems. The way the program track on it works is; the track is dead unless a command is being written to a decoder. So what you find is, the moment you activate a 'read' or 'write' command on program, then it gives it the juice.

 

 

Nothing appeared loose on the inside, I didn't shake it aggressively but it turned the unit upside down, left to right. I think he main track has just gone kaput

 

 

The handset did come to life yes, in the pictures above you'll see I did just that in your first suggestion. I got a spare bit of track, hooked it up to the main track output and it still gives the issue. A known working loco on that test bit of track also gave the same problems. I removed the track altogether and measured voltage across two wires coming out of the power unit, same thing  

 

My program output, works totally fine. DCC commands can be sent and received. [I've put a final comment below :)]

 

 

Thank you very much to this community, who all help out of kindness of the hobby.

 

Today, I sent the unit to the wonderful GM team (who got back to me within minutes), and they are going to take a look at it. I know there are bigger things happening in the world right now, than my train set- so I'm ever so grateful for anything they can do.

 

thank you all!

 Please do keep us all posted 

 

Terry 

[Matti]

Hi Everyone,

 

Thought I would update you all! 7 days ago (just before lock-down!!) I sent my PA2 off to Gaugemaster, explaining the problem I was facing. Firstly, their email responses are near-instant. The minute I send the team an email - they are back within 10-15-20 mins. It's incredible.

 

They, very rightly, mentioned a week ago, that it might take a couple of weeks to inspect before a resolution could be provided. I was more than ok with that - it gave me time to work on scenery. 

 

That being said, 7 days later, I received a parcel with what appeared to be a brand new base unit inside. With a note that simply said 'Base Unit Replaced'. It was shipped VERY professionally and carefully.

 

I instantly emailed the Gauagemaster team 'How much do I owe you??' to which they replied to say that it was covered as part of their service. I've traditionally kept my controller and base unit in top condition (haven't even removed screen covers). So it was really nice to see that Gaugemaster acknowledged this and sent me back kit, that was either brand new or gave that impression.

 

I cannot thank the team enough, what with everything happening in the world, I really did not expect to be top priority. However they have made me a very happy modeller by supporting me in this way.

 

If there are any Gaugemaster teams on this forums - thank you.

[WIMorrison]

It is true that your experience of excellent turnaround from the repair service of Gaugemaster is regularly reported here. 

 

It would concern me that there are so many reports of an excellent repair service for any equipment that I own.

[Rondobongo]

Hi All,

I'm having issues similar to Matte so thanks to him and all who replied to him, I will give the GM technical team a call next week and follow any advice. Not been on this forum long, but it is a wonderful resource to dip into now and then , and I thank everyone who can help others get the answers they need.

Roni