Should we be using mail order right now?

[rob D2]

I’d like to keep using mail order, but, I’m slightly concerned that aaprantly this virus can live for 24 hrs on cardboard - haven’t checked the source d need further investigation 

[wombatofludham]

Sadly as I won't be able to pop to my usual shop at the Bettws y Coed museum for my track, I will have to mail order it.  To be honest my postie arrives usually when I'm still in bed so I leave the porch unlocked where he leaves any post for me, which helps to keep us distanced and as others have said, the everyday postal and delivery systems are most unlikely to be used by any more urgently needed goods.  I also feel we should try to keep some sort of life going whilst absolutely and religiously observing all precautions necessary to reduce infection.  Otherwise the consequences for the economy and life in general will be dire and potentially worse than the 1930s, and we all know where that ended.

So yes, I'm mail-ordering to try and help business weather the situation as I'm confident any risks are manageable and being managed.,

[Nile]

13 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

I’d like to keep using mail order, but, I’m slightly concerned that aaprantly this virus can live for 24 hrs on cardboard - haven’t checked the source d need further investigation 

The goods receiving dept. where I work now has a 3 day quarantine for incoming items because of this. If you are concerned I suggest you do the same. Handle with gloves if in doubt.

[Phil Parker]

15 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

I’d like to keep using mail order, but, I’m slightly concerned that aaprantly this virus can live for 24 hrs on cardboard - haven’t checked the source d need further investigation 

 

From the BBC:

On clothing and other surfaces harder to disinfect, it is not yet clear how long the virus can survive. The absorbent natural fibres in cardboard, however, may cause the virus to dry up more quickly than on plastic and metal, suggests Vincent Munster, head of the virus ecology section at Rocky Mountain Laboratories and one of those who led the NIH study.

“We speculate due to the porous material, it desiccates rapidly and might be stuck to the fibres,” he says. Changes in temperature and humidity may also affect how long it can survive, and so may explain why it was less stable in suspended droplets in the air, as they are more exposed.

 

There's nothing to stop you spraying things with a cleaner.

 

research has shown that coronaviruses can be inactivated within a minute by disinfecting surfaces with 62-71% alcohol, or 0.5% hydrogen peroxide bleach or household bleach containing 0.1% sodium hypochlorite.

 

I feel I'm more likely to pick it up from other sources but you could handle incoming packages with gloves and quarantine them for a few days. However, we are facing a long period of this so you also need to consider (IMHO) the mental health issues that can be offset by having a project to work on. It's all a balancing act. Me, I've already ordered loads of stuff via mail order and plan to do so. If we don't, there won't be any traders left to support.

[Metr0Land]

3 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I feel I'm more likely to pick it up from other sources but you could handle incoming packages with gloves and quarantine them for a few days. However, we are facing a long period of this so you also need to consider (IMHO) the mental health issues that can be offset by having a project to work on. It's all a balancing act. Me, I've already ordered loads of stuff via mail order and plan to do so. If we don't, there won't be any traders left to support.

 

When they were talking a few weeks ago about crowds at sporting events being relatively safe, it was stated that open air and UV light seemed to help break down the virus quite quickly.  With good weather at the mo (or if you have eg a sun lounge) leaving parcels 'outside' for 24 hours should probably make them safe.  (No warranty given or implied).

[PaulRhB]

The whole reason that certain jobs are being classed as essential is to keep supplies moving. I suspect freight air transport is still going as all the passenger work for fuelling etc means they have plenty of contingency staff freed up if it’s anything like the railway. Certain types of traffic will drop off as restrictions on construction etc happen but so far I’m not seeing much drop in freight, in fact I’m doing overtime to keep it moving. 
Handling any post with kitchen or petrol Stn type gloves that can be easily disinfected and putting it in quarantine For a few days should eliminate risks. The postie’s round here are allowed to ring your bell and stand back and sign themselves when you open the door. As such parcels are tracked and rounds logged it’s pretty much as secure as normal. 

[Blandford1969]

2 orders placed so far. If we must be stuck at home at least better to be able to do something even allowing for not touching any package for 24 hours. 

 

I will be placing 2 or 3 more orders. If nothing else to keep my sanity by doing something

[JinglingGeordie]

If the government needed to use mail/courier firms for the delivery of essential goods they would do so, likewise if the situation escalated thet dramatically we would be made aware.  The NHS has an internal  delivery service and the military are not averse to being called on if it is deemed necessary.

 

Otherwise keep ordering from the preferred outlet - still a way to help the local or as near to local stores.  The benefits on mental health by having a good distracting hobby are well known. Just be extra careful with these knives and drills!

[Pete the Elaner]

Hattons are preparing for a 5-6 week despatch operation shutdown.

Just in case this happens, I'll buy as much as possible  make do with what I've got for a few reasons.

 

Panic buying could overload courier networks who will have more important things to deliver. Do we really need new items or can we find something else to work on?

While some of us are safely tucked away at home, couriers are out there at risk. Not ordering non-essentials will help release a few of them to isolate themselves.

[sharris]

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I’d like to keep using mail order, but, I’m slightly concerned that aaprantly this virus can live for 24 hrs on cardboard - haven’t checked the source d need further investigation 

 

We've had a few things from Amazon in the last week, we've been opening the packages at the front door and putting cardboard packaging straight into the outside recycling bin, and then having a good handwash immediately afterwards. 

[Phil Parker]

13 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Panic buying could overload courier networks who will have more important things to deliver. Do we really need new items or can we find something else to work on?

While some of us are safely tucked away at home, couriers are out there at risk. Not ordering non-essentials will help release a few of them to isolate themselves.

 

As someone else has said, the world of deliveries for essential items for the NHS etc. is separate from the normal services we use. A tiny amount, and in the overall scheme of things, we are tiny, isn't going to break anything. Abandoning our trade for a few months could well do however.

[Steamport Southport]

42 minutes ago, JinglingGeordie said:

If the government needed to use mail/courier firms for the delivery of essential goods they would do so, likewise if the situation escalated thet dramatically we would be made aware.  The NHS has an internal  delivery service and the military are not averse to being called on if it is deemed necessary.

 

Otherwise keep ordering from the preferred outlet - still a way to help the local or as near to local stores.  The benefits on mental health by having a good distracting hobby are well known. Just be extra careful with these knives and drills!

 

Worth bearing in mind Royal Mail is the Government's courier/mail service. We even had the same type of pay numbers as the military do.

 

If it came down to an emergency situation the RM will still be working, they will just close down the public side.

 

 

 

Jason

[woodenhead]

Well the notice from Hattons suggests something is afoot and it will commence on the 26th March.

 

Good planning by them or perhaps they have had notification what is coming down the line.

 

[Steven B]

From the WHO:

Quote

Is it safe to receive a package from any area where COVID-19 has been reported?

Yes. The likelihood of an infected person contaminating commercial goods is low and the risk of catching the virus that causes COVID-19 from a package that has been moved, travelled, and exposed to different conditions and temperature is also low. 

 

A bigger issue will be which shops shut up as part of the latest round of public health measures. I can see the big box shifters closing for a few weeks whilst the smaller one-man-band or family run shops keep going with mail order.

 

Steven B.

 

[ejstubbs]

22 hours ago, sharris said:

 

We've had a few things from Amazon in the last week, we've been opening the packages at the front door and putting cardboard packaging straight into the outside recycling bin, and then having a good handwash immediately afterwards. 

 

Do you just tip the contents of the cardboard package on to the floor?  Otherwise, anything you get on your hands/gloves from opening the cardboard outer packaging could get transferred to the contents as you life them out with the same hands/gloves.

 

Sorry, not trying to be argumentative, just pointing out that hygiene protocols need to be observed all the way through the handling process (and of course I've no reason to believe that you're not doing precisely that).

 

For folks using a quarantine box for incoming post, I think there's an argument for having three or more boxes in order to keep each day's deliveries completely isolated for the requisite 48 hours or whatever.  Otherwise there's a risk of Wednesday's post re-contaminating Monday's - if you see what I mean. (Not an issue of course if you don't get deliveries that frequently.)

[sharris]

12 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

 

Do you just tip the contents of the cardboard package on to the floor?  Otherwise, anything you get on your hands/gloves from opening the cardboard outer packaging could get transferred to the contents as you life them out with the same hands/gloves.

 

As an added precaution, the contents get a wipe down with anti-viral wipes (as, where possible, does anything that comes back from the shops). 

[johnlambert]

I'm currently debating the ethics of ordering some fun stuff online.  On the one hand it will keep me sane on the days when I'm not working (for the NHS) but I don't want to force people to have to go into work to pack my "toys" when they should be at home.  And yet, i don't want to be responsible for putting people out of work.

 

It's a tricky one.

[friscopete]

I stick all non perishable incoming into the car boot on the driveway and keep it there .I also spray it  and door handles with alcohol  and wash my hands,.

[friscopete]

I stick all non perishable incoming into the car boot on the driveway and keep it there .I also spray it  and door handles with alcohol  and wash my hands,.

[billbedford]

On 23/03/2020 at 11:24, rob D2 said:

I’d like to keep using mail order, but, I’m slightly concerned that aaprantly this virus can live for 24 hrs on cardboard - haven’t checked the source d need further investigation 

 

You could always use 2nd class post, which is allegedly a 48hr service. 

[Blandford1969]

1 hour ago, billbedford said:

 

You could always use 2nd class post, which is allegedly a 48hr service. 

Or when the post arrives, open it, dispose of the wrapping immediately, put the items down and then come back to them in 2 days. 

[Metr0Land]

3 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

You could always use 2nd class post, which is allegedly a 48hr service. 

 

But it's still gonna be handled by the Postie who drops it off, and will have been in close contact with other parcels in the van?

[Neil]

Perhaps we shouldn't be using Royal Mail for inessential purchases. By the way I don't buy the 'model railway stuff essential for sanity' argument, it seems to me to be akin to those who 'game' the exercise argument so they don't have to curtail their usual freedom to roam. For the record I've suffered from stress and depression severe enough to halt my career in its tracks. I have family and friends who suffer far worse than me but none of us have one single thing or focus that if we had to do without for a relatively short period of time would cause our mental health to crumble. We are an inventive and creative bunch, we can make models out of all sorts of improbable materials.

[Andy Hayter]

While I have more than a little sympathy with RM workers if they are being asked to work unsafely by not having adequate PPE, I note a whole range of employees and companies where this seems to be/have been  the case:

Building sites

TfL bus drivers

JD Sports warehouses

now Royal Mail

 

I ask myself in all of the above cases, why the workers think it is better to publicise their plight through BBC/the Telegraph/Sun/Express or whatever, rather than reporting the company to the Health and Safety Executive who have the ability to stop operations on the spot if they are truly unsafe.

[Neil]

Not sure if the HSE are operating or operating effectively at the moment. There is an interesting article on the difficulties of being asked/required to work in a way which you believe exposes you to danger here. it is skewed towards critical workers in health care but it's easy to see how the same reasoning would work for other sectors. With my ex-union officer hat on I'd say that safety trumps all in the workplace, or should trump all, but times have changed over the fifteen years I've been out of the game.