Temporary Service Cuts Start Monday

[mdvle]

56 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

You make it sound like there are no staff at all, which is not the case.

I have not used the railway for over a week. They seem to be more quiet than I had expected.

It sounded very much like an excuse to cut services because they are more economical when full.

 

There is a cost factor to this - the TOC's did go running to the government given they are losing a lot of money running empty trains around, money that eventually will come out of taxpayer pockets if the service didn't get adjusted to reflect the current demand (note the airlines parking a lot of planes, some figures are 75% or more of their fleets).

 

And not unique to the UK - Amtrak and VIA have been cutting services for 2 weeks now, again to reflect demand (and thus reduce the costs) but also to allow for more cleaning and flexibility in the future when they start running into staff issues.

 

It is a fair guess that European railways aren't running a regular schedule at the moment either.

 

Given social distancing requirements it is far better to run a reduced, but reliable, timetable that can be maintained even if you start losing 10% or more of your workers to quarantine or hospitalization - and note given they deal with the public they are likely a somewhat higher risk (GO Transit in Toronto has roped off the part of the train where the on train staff operate the doors from to prevent interaction with the public at the moment).

 

 

 

 

[Gwiwer]

9 minutes ago, mdvle said:

GO Transit in Toronto has roped off the part of the train where the on train staff operate the doors from to prevent interaction with the public at the moment

Buses in Germany now have plastic screens fitted preventing passengers making direct contact with the driver.  Netherlands is, I believe, about to do the same. Both nations have significantly dual-entrance bus fleets.  The UK still requires fares to be paid to the driver upon entry and most buses outside a couple of major cities only have a front entrance / exit making this option impossible.  In London no cash is taken and there are (and have been for some years) screens between driver and passengers which reduces the risk of cross-infection.  Trams have seperate driver's cabins meaning there is no direct contact between them and passengers.

 

Train drivers of course have their own cabs but many UK trains have a second person somewhere back down the train.  Politics and job descriptions aside let's call them the Guard.  The guard can sometimes ride in an intermediate or rear driver's cab but often has no choice but to mingle with passengers in the saloons.  Given current patronage levels there is usually space for the advisory social distancing nonetheless.  

 

But there is of necessity sharing of contact surfaces between staff and between staff and passengers.  Barriers, doors, seats, windows, handrails and ticket machines are among the places where there is close contact.  Staff share radios, PA microphones / handsets, driving and guard's controls.  Sanitiser and latex gloves should be adequate protection here.  There is evidence of both being used more widely though touch-screens may not respond if gloves are worn.  

[Matt C]

I would assume that as they are running less trains, parking some up, these can be deep cleaned while parked one day and then swapped overnight for one used during that day, so THAT unit can then be dropped out of service and deep cleaned ?  The usual quick wipe over wont be enough to ensure CV isnt present so it makes sense 

[Pete the Elaner]

"Deep cleaned"?

Like for train crew, cleaning crew will also be reduced.

The virus is observed to die after 20 minutes outside of a host, so I expect period out of use will be deemed sufficient.

[NIK]

5 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

"Deep cleaned"?

Like for train crew, cleaning crew will also be reduced.

The virus is observed to die after 20 minutes outside of a host, so I expect period out of use will be deemed sufficient.

Hi,

 

I thought the mean for the virus to become ineffective on a typical surface was about four days.

 

Do you have new information that replaces that?.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[ELTEL]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

You make it sound like there are no staff at all, which is not the case.

“ I have not used the railway for over a week. They seem to be more quiet than I had expected.”

It sounded very much like an excuse to cut services because they are more economical when full.

“ I have not used the railway for over a week. They seem to be more quiet than I had expected.”
 

Is that perhaps a clue that it may be a good idea to run less trains 

[ELTEL]

11 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

"Deep cleaned"?

Like for train crew, cleaning crew will also be reduced.

The virus is observed to die after 20 minutes outside of a host, so I expect period out of use will be deemed sufficient.

 

The virus is observed to die after 20 minutes outside of a host, so I expect period out of use will be deemed sufficient.

 

Rubbish 

[NIK]

8 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I was not advocating a shut down, but a mandate to insist services are run as normal to give the remaining passengers extra space.

Hi,

 

That seems the right thing to do if there are enough railway staff. Making passengers congregate on platforms and then pack them into trains seems counter to the governments medical advice on how to reduce the load on the NHS critical care facilities and hopefully minimise the death toll.

 

Take care all.

 

Nick

[mdvle]

16 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

The virus is observed to die after 20 minutes outside of a host, so I expect period out of use will be deemed sufficient.

 

Covid-19 remains viable suspended in still air for up to 3 hours, on cardboard type surfaces for 24 hours, and solid surfaces like plastic and steel for 3 days.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-study/new-coronavirus-can-persist-in-air-for-hours-and-on-surfaces-for-days-study-idUSKBN2143QP

[mdvle]

5 minutes ago, NIK said:

That seems the right thing to do if there are enough railway staff. Making passengers congregate on platforms and then pack them into trains seems counter to the governments medical advice on how to reduce the load on the NHS critical care facilities and hopefully minimise the death toll.

 

Even with the reduced service there is no where near enough passengers to "pack them into trains" - even with these service cuts the trains will be running quite empty given passengers numbers are down by 70% and that number is only likely to increase as further restrictions are put in place.

[Pete the Elaner]

10 minutes ago, ELTEL said:

 

The virus is observed to die after 20 minutes outside of a host, so I expect period out of use will be deemed sufficient.

 

That's exactly what was reported when the virus was first isolated, but you obviously know better than the scientists who looked into it.

The media & particularly social media seem to have twisted a LOT of facts.

[mdvle]

16 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

That's exactly what was reported when the virus was first isolated, but you obviously know better than the scientists who looked into it.

The media & particularly social media seem to have twisted a LOT of facts.

 

The danger in a situation like Covid-19 is if you aren't careful with what you read you can end up repeating false information, or out of date information.

 

Given that you apparently haven't read the link I provided, I will summarize for you and others.

 

The numbers I gave above (3 hours in still air, 24 hours on cardboard, 3 days on hard surfaces) all came from NIAID (National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases), which is part of the US National Institute of Health.  aka scientists who specialize in this stuff.

 

They ran experiments that simulated an infected person coughing, and then tested for Covid-19 at various intervals.  There results, released this week, are as above.

 

So no, leaving trains empty overnight doesn't make them "safely Covid-19 free", the trains need extremely thorough cleaning.

[DCB]

We all need to take precautions.  Trains, Planes, Buses, Taxis are all great places to catch diseases.

The streets are empty with people self isolating, so the authorities should be encouraging people to use their cars.  Suspend the congestion charge etc.  But no. The PC brigade don't care how many lives it costs to keep their "Public Transport Good, Private Transport Bad" mantra alive.  Even the "nearly empty" Tubes shown on TV are nowhere near meeting the 1 metre suggested separation .  

I suggested to our CEO that we should recommend our people avoid using public transport for the duration 

[Bucoops]

6 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

We all need to take precautions.  Trains, Planes, Buses, Taxis are all great places to catch diseases.

The streets are empty with people self isolating, so the authorities should be encouraging people to use their cars.  Suspend the congestion charge etc.  But no. The PC brigade don't care how many lives it costs to keep their "Public Transport Good, Private Transport Bad" mantra alive.  Even the "nearly empty" Tubes shown on TV are nowhere near meeting the 1 metre suggested separation .  

I suggested to our CEO that we should recommend our people avoid using public transport for the duration 

 

London's zones are suspended from Monday - 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/20/london-road-charges-suspended-to-clear-routes-for-critical-workers

[black and decker boy]

7 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

We all need to take precautions.  Trains, Planes, Buses, Taxis are all great places to catch diseases.

The streets are empty with people self isolating, so the authorities should be encouraging people to use their cars.  Suspend the congestion charge etc.  But no. The PC brigade don't care how many lives it costs to keep their "Public Transport Good, Private Transport Bad" mantra alive.  Even the "nearly empty" Tubes shown on TV are nowhere near meeting the 1 metre suggested separation .  

I suggested to our CEO that we should recommend our people avoid using public transport for the duration 

Keep up:

 

current government guidance says

 

”Avoid non-essential use of public transport when possible”

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults

 

As Bucoops says, london congestion charge 

is being suspended.

 

All that said, the Basic rule from government remains 

“Work from home, where possible. Your employer should support you to do this.

 

Avoid large and small gatherings in public spaces,

 

Avoid gatherings with friends and family.”

[beast66606]

14 hours ago, stivesnick said:

Greater Anglia have announced reduced services from next week - basically a Sunday service. Hourly on most routes. 

 

Enhanced Sunday service, trains start earlier than Sundays

 

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/travel-information/timetables

 

I would advise anyone travelling on any route, not just GA, to check before travelling (and only do that if you have to)

[great central]

9 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Even with the reduced service there is no where near enough passengers to "pack them into trains" - even with these service cuts the trains will be running quite empty given passengers numbers are down by 70% and that number is only likely to increase as further restrictions are put in place.

 

I'm working what can be quite a busy train from Norwich, I have 7 passengers on board, with around 150 seats so not exactly 'packing them in.

From Monday this will become a two hourly service as far as Sheffield, and after tomorrow I'm off for 9 days, who knows what will be running by then!

[AY Mod]

10 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

The virus is observed to die after 20 minutes outside of a host, so I expect period out of use will be deemed sufficient.

 

What is it with these Danger Deniers? 

 

Check your facts, don't repeat rubbish and please, for the sake of everyone else, keep away from us all. 

[Matt C]

10 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

"Deep cleaned"?

Like for train crew, cleaning crew will also be reduced.

The virus is observed to die after 20 minutes outside of a host, so I expect period out of use will be deemed sufficient.

Yes 'Deep cleaned' please dont put out inaccurate replies to peoples posts.   Other posters above have given the correct  advice re times it remains active. It appears to be The harder the surface the longer it lingers.  Yes  there will be staff off, but there will also be staff who would normally be on other duties, freed up as there are less passengers, and less  trains running, who could be roped in on cleaning duties. At times like this most will be happy to muck in where needed

There are a lot of idiots around but far more people who quietly step up at times like this. 

[jim.snowdon]

23 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

What is it with these Danger Deniers? 

 

Check your facts, don't repeat rubbish and please, for the sake of everyone else, keep away from us all. 

Certainly, check facts first using reputable sources. But, the principle is right even if the time period mentioned is questionable. The virus does not survive forever; how long depends on the surface it is sitting on. Leave a train out of service and quarantined for a week and the indications are that any virus living in it will be dead.

 

Nor would I use such emotive terms as Danger Deniers. The Covid-19 virus is not the end of the world; some will die from it, some of those would have died anyway without the virus. The majority will survive it.

 

Yes, be careful about what you say, but keep everything in proportion.

 

Jim

[AY Mod]

22 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

even if the time period mentioned is questionable.

 

Which makes the statement incorrect and irresponsible. Simple.

[Butler Henderson]

Northern are cancelling trains at short notice so that will be an improved service then  Re plastic screens protecting bus drivers some operators in the UK already have such (Nottm City Transport for example) for driver protection from violence which in other circumstances is really as sad indictment on society.

[decauville1126]

20 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

 

 

In some areas bus drivers already have security screens between them and boarding passengers; in all areas there is already a degree of separation with passengers not necessarily having to get too close to the driver at any time.  Many operators now accept contactless payments or m-tickets which, with the fact of many bus passengers holding Freedom Passes, means very few cash transactions now take place on board.  

 

 

I've been watching for a while now how the ratio goes : currently 2/3 "non cash" - erv/prepay/crinkly cards to 1/3 cash. Suits me as less time required paying-in at end of day, but my employer has always said we will keep cash walk-on facilities whilst making attractive off-bus purchase schemes.

 

Agreed different elsewhere, particularly London. 

[phil-b259]

12 hours ago, ELTEL said:

 

The virus is observed to die after 20 minutes outside of a host, so I expect period out of use will be deemed sufficient.

 

Rubbish 

 

I imagine this might be true inside a laboratory - if the virus lands on a completely sterile environment. Its worth noting that petri dishes and such like used to grow stuff usually need to be 'doped' with something for the organism to live off.

 

In the real world however, surfaces are covered with good incubating materials (hence the advice to cough into a tissue and bin it) and the virus can live on contaminated surfaces (particularly hard plastic) for 48hrs or more.

 

 

[Butler Henderson]

21 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

In the real world however, surfaces are covered with good incubating materials (hence the advice to cough into a tissue and bin it) and the virus can live on contaminated surfaces (particularly hard plastic) for 48hrs or more.

72 hours has been quoted for this virus, advice has been to wash your shopping but I doubt anyone is  and all those hoarding goods are at greater risk than those doing their normal shop due to the sheer amount of products handled and anything coming through the letter box is best left for three days if you would to be really careful.