L&Y goods wagon sources?

[Compound2632]

37 minutes ago, MR Chuffer said:

First decade of 20th century.

 

A decade of great visual change, at least for the Midland!

 

Remember that this is pre-pooling, so any foreign wagons would have to have some traffic justification - the most obvious being L&Y wagons in Midland trains to/from Scotland, CLC wagons also. LNWR wagons would be most likely to appear in L&Y trains. I think despite the Great Northern's presence in the area, it might be difficult to justify GN wagons off the GN system, unless, possibly, they've come via the L&Y.

[MR Chuffer]

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

A decade of great visual change, at least for the Midland!

 

Remember that this is pre-pooling, so any foreign wagons would have to have some traffic justification - the most obvious being L&Y wagons in Midland trains to/from Scotland, CLC wagons also. LNWR wagons would be most likely to appear in L&Y trains. I think despite the Great Northern's presence in the area, it might be difficult to justify GN wagons off the GN system, unless, possibly, they've come via the L&Y.

Yes, this is all in the plan. I have a list of industries and businesses for my semi-fictitious Lancashire (mill) town and my driving modelling passion is that, the traffic.

 

The mills need inputs, cotton from the docks, machinery and, of course coal. Outputs being finished goods - back to the Manchester/Liverpool, waste by-products, redundant machinery.

 

The gasworks, coal in, coke and tar by-products out. And besides industrial and land sale coal, there would be stone in, road building materials, timber and explosives were regularly shipped from a nearby dump. 

 

And then there are people to feed, a fish van twice a week for the fish n' chips, cattle, milk, Southport produce, etc. and the town had a significant Co-op presence covering all sorts of goods, as they did. But where did the fish come from? Heysham was only developed in 1904 and Fleetwood was the dominant west coast fishing port and pure L&Y.

 

A daily L&Y trip goods will be be bringing in any LNWR wagons (only 2 so minimal); GNR, yes difficult to work into a scenario but I have a nice fitted van from way back, and I've ended up with a NB and GC open wagon - the latter even harder to justify? But each wagon has a purpose and will convey a load to earn its keep or sit on the shelf.

 

I will be the "oversized Controller", and will have this railway run properly and for profit!!

[Buhar]

Fish came from different ports according to the species and time of year. But dedicated fish vans would generally work to a large market with distribution onwards being done in ordinary vans or the guards van. Even a busy chippie would only need a couple of crates a week, not worth a whole van. Sorry. 

 

Alan 

[Compound2632]

Just now, Buhar said:

Fish came from different ports according to the species and time of year. But dedicated fish vans would generally work to a large market with distribution onwards being done in ordinary vans or the guards van. Even a busy chippie would only need a couple of crates a week, not worth a whole van. Sorry. 

 

Alan 

 

@MR Chuffer's mill town is the fish metropolis and distribution centre for his corner of Lancashire?

[MR Chuffer]

1 hour ago, Buhar said:

Fish came from different ports according to the species and time of year. But dedicated fish vans would generally work to a large market with distribution onwards being done in ordinary vans or the guards van. Even a busy chippie would only need a couple of crates a week, not worth a whole van. Sorry. 

 

Alan 

Good point, will take that onboard and scale back to a couple of crates a week.

 

But they do work hard in my mill town and have ravenous appetites....

[Schooner]

6 hours ago, Buhar said:

Even a busy chippie would only need a couple of crates a week

 

...ah, but how many busy chippies are there per busy mill town? 

 

...and/or how many Catholics does it take to fill a fish van... 

[Compound2632]

33 minutes ago, Schooner said:

...and/or how many Catholics does it take to fill a fish van... 

 

My mother said that she used to look forward to Friday dinner as fish was the only thing her mother could cook well!

[Steamport Southport]

Don't forget the people back then used to virtually live on kippers for breakfast. Not much in the way of breakfast cereals (which were mostly aimed at children anyway) and most couldn't afford bacon.

 

 

 

Jason

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Don't forget the people back then used to virtually live on kippers for breakfast. Not much in the way of breakfast cereals (which were mostly aimed at children anyway) and most couldn't afford bacon.

 

 

How would kippers be transported? In boxes, I suppose? They've been preserved by the kippering process at the port so wouldn't need to be transported in fish vans.

 

Is @MR Chuffer's line through or a dead-end branch? If through, then a fish van or two could certainly be included in a passenger train bound for Manchester, say. Perhaps even a North British fish van?

Edited March 22, 2020 by Compound2632

[MR Chuffer]

@Schooner @Compound2632We're getting quite whimsical now, but I find the minutiae of diet details fascinating so thanks all for the perspective on fish consumption.

 

The wholesale adulteration of food in the 19th century and incidents like "Death in the beer-glass: the Manchester arsenic-in-beer epidemic of 1900-1 and the long-term poisoning of beer", which was due to the wrong type of coal being used for heat and drying in the brewing process, really demonstrate how far we have come in the last 100 years.

 

My layout is a BLT reached by frequent MR traffic from Leeds and Skipton, so a fish van terminating there may be credible but kippers in crates and wet fish from Fleetwood or wherever the catch is from in NPCS with other consignments is probably more realistic.

 

But back to L&Y wagons, no 4mm RTR and kits then? Have ordered the L&Y Society Noel Coates Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Wagon Diagrams for a limited scratch build project.

 

After all, I'm not going anywhere for the next few days/weeks/months, etc....

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, MR Chuffer said:

The wholesale adulteration of food in the 19th century and incidents like "Death in the beer-glass: the Manchester arsenic-in-beer epidemic of 1900-1 and the long-term poisoning of beer", which was due to the wrong type of coal being used for heat and drying in the brewing process, really demonstrate how far we have come in the last 100 years.

 

That's an important modelling point - if you have a brewey in the town, you'll be needing coal from pits producing coal with low arsenic content - Swansea Vale anthracite, via the Midland's South Wales tentacle, or some of the north Warwickshire coalfield pits - Birch Coppice; probably others that I'm unaware of but at least those examples are on the Midland. Your gasworks will be wanting gas coal from some of the South Yorks / Notts / Derbys seams - but be careful there because some of the well-known names didn't get going until several years after the turn of the century. So some research is needed to select appropriate PO wagons.