Guest WM183 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Hi folks. I've started on my third 7mm wagon kit, a GWR V33, which will be unfitted. This has the Morton type brake, but did it have shoes on both sides (4 shoes total) or just on one side (2 shoes)? I would like to use an etched brake set, but the Bill Bedford etch Eileen's sells only has details on one side of the etch, so it's fine for independent brakes (where they "face" different ways) but for an RCH 4 shoe setup, one set of the etched brakes will lack any surface details. Or is there another source for a 9' Etched brake kit? Non related... I always thought this was a 10' wheelbase kit. Who knew? Amanda Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) I think this question has been raised before, and, err, clunk click, found it, but I'm as confused as I ever was, although I suspect V33 was 2-shoe Edited March 20, 2020 by Miss Prism Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 If it's unfitted then it has 2 shoe brakes (on the Morton clutch side) and no tiebars. Generally for 9' and 10' wheelbase wagons it will only have 4 shoe Morton brakes if it's fitted and then it will also have a tiebar. There are a couple of pictures of V33s in GWR Goods Wagons by Atkins, Beard, Tourret Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) I was given a Parkside V33 that was built for coarse 0 and was a mess. I stripped it down and destroyed the solebars in the process, these have been rebuilt. I've been collecting parts (wheels, Bill Bedford brakes and W irons, buffers and couplings) and now have to get stuck in. Thanks Miss P for the link. I will have to check the instructions from the previous kit. Parkside are usually pretty accurate. John Edited March 20, 2020 by brossard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Thanks folks. I knew you'd all be able to set me right! The Bill Bedford etch will be just fine for the brakes then. John are you doing sprung W irons on all your stock? Does it work much better than simple 3 point compensation? And I suppose; does any one know does Parkside make any 10' chassis GWR minks? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Oh! On either side of the door are catches to hold the doors open. Does anyone happen to have a good photo of one of those? I'd like to make something out of brass to represent them, but I cannot find a very good photo that shows them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 I have done a lot of wagons with sprung axleboxes, either BB or Slaters. I suppose I'd need to run them at scale 60mph to be able to tell if the system is effective. That is unlikely to happen since I'm doing a BLT. They do tend to glide over pointwork somewhat better than uncompensated. I did try 3 point comp. but the post I used to support the axle made it squeak so I got rid of that. That said, I'm sort of hit and miss with springing, sometimes I do and other times I don't. I think the term "Mink" was used to describe a lot of vans. There's this: https://anticsonline.uk/N425/N1322/N2311/N2384_o-gauge-GWR-goods-wagon-kit-peco-parkside-slaters/1945282_Parkside-O-gauge-kit-PS26-GWR-12T-Box-Van.html As for the door catches, Slaters do these in lost wax brass and they are so much nicer than Parksides. I have got these by asking in the special request box on the order form. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 Thanks much! I will contact Slaters'! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 I just happened to notice an old article (BRM Feb 2011) about building Parkside wagons. The author (annoyingly the title page is missing), says that there is only one set of push rods on the V33 van. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted March 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2020 This is interesting. I thought the instructions were to build it with 4 shoes, mirrored with a Morton clutch on one side. I might be mistaken and its academic for me as I built it as a fitted or retrofitted example anyway, as shown in that other thread. Slightly off topic but now trying to think what other unfitted wagons I have - would a SR planked van of the 9 ft type that Parkside make have been one sided or independent by mid to late 50s? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Hal Nail said: This is interesting. I thought the instructions were to build it with 4 shoes, mirrored with a Morton clutch on one side. I might be mistaken and its academic for me as I built it as a fitted or retrofitted example anyway, as shown in that other thread. Slightly off topic but now trying to think what other unfitted wagons I have - would a SR planked van of the 9 ft type that Parkside make have been one sided or independent by mid to late 50s? Southern liked what it called its "freighter brake" on unfitted wagons, which is just a fancy name for independent brakes on either side. Evidently, according to vol 4 of "Illustrated History of Southern Wagons" this was so they didn't have to pay royalties for the Morton clutch device. This is how I built my 8 plank wagon. The SR book shows photos of D1429, 1455, and 1452 with these brakes, as well as a 4mm diagram of a 1455. Edited March 21, 2020 by WM183 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I wonder if we can ever convince Peco to start including etched brakes in these kits. They're sooo close to perfect out of the box! The chunky and rather detail-less brake gear is really their only shortcoming, and to be fair it isn't a terrible one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, WM183 said: Southern liked what it called its "freighter brake" on unfitted wagons, which is just a fancy name for independent brakes on either side. Evidently, according to vol 4 of "Illustrated History of Southern Wagons" this was so they didn't have to pay royalties for the Morton clutch device. This is how I built my 8 plank wagon. The SR book shows photos of D1429, 1455, and 1452 with these brakes, as well as a 4mm diagram of a 1455. The subject of Royalties for the Morton Clutch is interesting. The lever on the other side of the wagon also has a clutch. Going back in time the Morton Clutch allowed a 2 block arrangement on one side of the wagon to be worked from both sides, with the levers on the right hand side as you looked at the wagon. (Some wagons had the levers at the same end, and that arrangement was frowned upon by the BOT - Board of Trade) I assume the royalty was paid as a one off rather than an annual fee.... If so the cost would have come into play when a new build was being priced up. Interestingly contractor built vans seem to have the 2 block morton brake (I've been looking at brakes for LNER vans) The Southern liked the 'Freighter brake' and on fitted wagons the LNER liked their 3 vee hanger arrangement. I wonder what the actual economic saving was as the Freighter has 2 lots of rigging, maybe they were just against the principle of someone else making some money. I find brake work on older wagons very interesting. The key to assessing the function is to look and take loads of pictures... At Highley is a BR cattle wagon, B891504, with a single cross shaft, 3 V-hanger fitted brake, with a clasp blocks... Still has 2 clutches and a kind of clutch on the lever to the vacuum cylinder to allow the handbrake to be applied independent of the automatic vacuum brake 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Indeed! The intricacies of the brake gear are one of the most interesting parts of railway stock, and I never tire of photos and all. All of my 4mm wagons have been upgraded with brass brake gear so that all that intricacy is not lost. Sadly, there is not quite so many bits for 7mm; I hope to do a few 10' wheelbase vans and opens, but no one makes an etch for these I fear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Yep, brake work and its intricacies are fascinating to me. When I build a wagon, most of my time, effort and research goes into the brake gear. As usual Ernie you are a great source of prototype info. Cracking pictures. Given that 10' WB wagons were in the majority in the BR era, a kit for 10' WB brakes is a major omission. As mentioned in another thread, Hobby Holidays produce frets of brake gear details (shoes, push rods, lever guides) that should enable the building of brakes. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Question. How much interest in a fret in 7mm for 10’ wheelbase. The push rods in several parts to represent the layers. Likewise the blocks as layers to give the thickness and shape. it could be assembled on a jig using brass or copper wire. The wire then forming part of the soldered joint. Thoughts please.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) The marketplace usually drives availability Ernie. Interestingly, Eileens does 10'WB brakes for 4mm: https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=2687&name=rch-10-wagon-brake-gear-4mm&Itemid=443&category_pathway=4041 I would think it a fairly simple matter to make these for 7mm. I just dropped an email to Eileens to ask. John Edited March 21, 2020 by brossard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I would guess that 10' wheelbase morton / independent brake etches in 7mm would sell well, Ernie. I know that 4mm etches for brake gear and all do very well with kitbuilders, so no reason to think 7 would be different? The finer scale in the pushrods, safety loops, and lever and lever guide is very noticable in 7mm, moreso than in 4 I think. Amanda Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) I just heard back from Derek at Eileens. He says he doesn't sell all that much of the 7mm stuff. No plans to extend the range. So, people here and those reading this, start buying. We only get if it's worthwhile to the supplier. John Edited March 21, 2020 by brossard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, brossard said: I just heard back from Derek at Eileens. He says he doesn't sell all that much of the 7mm stuff. No plans to extend the range. So, people here and those reading this, start buying. We only get if it's worthwhile to the supplier. John I'll order a couple etches today. My V33 needs one, and I am sure I will build at least one more that needs 9' brakes soon! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Good, Derek says if he sells one BB 7mm item a month he's surprised. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WM183 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, brossard said: Good, Derek says if he sells one BB 7mm item a month he's surprised. John In the past month I've already bought two!! Note: Also ordered the brake gear etches. I mean, 4 sets of brass bits still isn't exactly a lot. Edited March 21, 2020 by WM183 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Well done, I have a couple of frets waiting to go myself. We all have to do our bit. These things don't have the popularity of toilet paper. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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