Jidenco LNWR/LMS Claughton

[k22009]

As I seem to have a fair bit of spare time over the next few weeks I thought i'd try one of the kits I've had for some time that I thought, that's gonna need some TLC.

 

I'm sure there a are a few of these kits in various to do piles up and down the country so I thought i'd try once and for all to do a blow by blow account showing up any difficulties that may be experienced, hopefully it's not too problematic and will encourage more to get brought into the light of day from what was a really nice prototype. 

 

To start I photographed what was in the kit. There was additionally a few duplicates of various parts and by going through each item I also identified a few parts that will need supplying or fabricating as they were never part of the kit in the first place.  Most of the parts are fairly obvious what they are, the instructions included are very basic and not really all that helpful.

 

The kit includes parts for the original small boiler and later large boiler versions which were fitted with or without caprotti valve gear. I intend to try to build the later re-boilered version with the original valve gear.

 

I found a drawing from an old Railway Modeller and scaled it up on the photocopier to get an exact 4mm print for me to lay out the parts to see how accurate the etches were. First up were the prominent valences. When laid over the drawing it was obvious that the 2 cutouts to the rear (which line up with the axle centrelines) were ok but the centre one was to far to the rear with the front 2 also ok.

 

 

So I split the 4 valences (2 for each side to be sweated together) either side of the centre cut out, added a small 1.5mm strip into the rear cut and removing 1.5mm from the front. I staggered the joints to each layer so that when they were all soldered up each part would strengthen each other. Here they are just need cleaning up.

 

 

The area where the front lower footplate goes also needed some rework to make it more accurate, it was far to shallow a curve. The overall length of them isn't quite right at the rear, and I believe there was a distinct curving to the valence under the cab where it meets the drag beam, so I can splice something on later for that. 

 

Footplate next.

 

Dave

Edited April 29, 2023 by k22009

[Coal Tank]

I'm looking forward to this 

John 

[TT-Pete]

I will be following this with interest. I started the 3mm scale version of this kit back in about 2001 and didn't get very far!

 

 

[t-b-g]

I have written about the kit before. It is truly bad.

 

Look out for the lack of cut outs in the footplate for wheels and motor, the length  of the boiler, firebox and smokebox (we made new ones) and that the coupling rods and frames were hand drawn individually and the centres don't  match! Best of luck with it!

 

You might be luckier with the large boiler, we built the small one.

Edited March 23, 2020 by t-b-g

[hayfield]

Good luck, I have built a couple of jedinco loco kits, a bit better than a scratch aid kit, but a long way off modern kits.

 

Like all things I would like to think my skills are better now therefore a better kit would result and if you get it right it will be very rewarding

[t-b-g]

Just to prove that they can be built, here is ours. It is one of Tony Wright's photos that he took for BRM. He has previously given my permission to post them but please observe copywrite.

 

[k22009]

9 hours ago, t-b-g said:

Look out for the lack of cut outs in the footplate for wheels and motor, the length  of the boiler, firebox and smokebox (we made new ones) and that the coupling rods and frames were hand drawn individually and the centres don't  match! Best of luck with it!

 

You might be luckier with the large boiler, we built the small one.

 

Thanks, i'd sussed  the footplate problem with no cut outs for wheels.

 

The chassis will be compensated, so if there's any misalignment with the axle holes this way it should alleviate that problem as they will need cutting out for horn blocks. It also means that the coupling rods should be usable as they'll form part of the jigging arrangement to set the horn blocks. The etch for one side of the frames, coupling rods, valve gear etc was the mirror copy (or opposite hand as we call it in draughting terms) of the other side so it may be ok anyway.

 

The small boiler version in the photo looks smart.

 

Hopefully if there any other problems they won't be insurmountable, we'll see how it progresses. 

 

Dave

[Legend]

One of my favourite locos ever since I saw a George Heiron picture of one in crimson . Just looked magnificent . Must admit looking at your kit of parts  I wouldn't have the vaguest notion how to start . I take my hat off to you fold that have the skill and patience to assemble these kits .

[t-b-g]

34 minutes ago, k22009 said:

 

Thanks, i'd sussed  the footplate problem with no cut outs for wheels.

 

The chassis will be compensated, so if there's any misalignment with the axle holes this way it should alleviate that problem as they will need cutting out for horn blocks. It also means that the coupling rods should be usable as they'll form part of the jigging arrangement to set the horn blocks. The etch for one side of the frames, coupling rods, valve gear etc was the mirror copy (or opposite hand as we call it in draughting terms) of the other side so it may be ok anyway.

 

The small boiler version in the photo looks smart.

 

Hopefully if there any other problems they won't be insurmountable, we'll see how it progresses. 

 

Dave

 

Your approach should solve many of the problems. I wish you well and look forward to seeing how you progress.

[DLT]

I shall be following with interest.

Cheers, Dave.

[k22009]

This is the footplate, clearly a problem with no allowance at all for the driving wheels, so once again using the drawing I drew around the outer rim of the wheels to ascertain where the cuts needed to start and finish. The width required was measured off the pair of wheels on an axle (i'm using markits wheels for this) with an allowance for some side travel.

 

 

10 minutes with a slitting disc and files ended up with something looking a bit better.

 

 

Next I wanted to get the basic chassis together so that I could drill both footplate and frame spacers for fixing holes.

The frames hot off the fret are not too bad, the axle centres are ok (it's actually the drawing that was a little out on the centre axle), the only 2 modifications required was to shorten the front by about 2.5mm and to take about 1mm from the top all the way along as it would have meant the footplate sitting too high.

 

 

I also cut out the frames for the horn blocks to the front 2 axles. The frames as on the prototype are quite shallow and the horn blocks will sit below the frame bottom. I cut off the springs and have retained these for soldering back onto the horn block later.

 

 

There are only screw together frame spacers with the kit so i'll make up a few from strip. I have also to drill holes for the pivot point for the compensation beam then I can get the chassis made up. 

 

Dave

Edited April 29, 2023 by k22009

[Norton961]

Best of luck with this, I tried to build one of these ( my friend Jim also started one at the same time) 20 od years ago and it was so bad that Jim Barnes and I decided that we could do better and started Brassmasters and we decided to develop a G2 0-8-0. 

From memory the axle centres don’t match the cut outs in the valance and the cab profile is LMS not LNWR. We never finished either loco.

The problem with these kits started with in most cases a Skinley drawing ( usually not accurate) and then the draftsperson .was not a modeller so they were difficult to build.

Anything can be built but these kits are not a good start point!

 

David

[bgman]

Certainly a labour of love judging by what you have had to do so far, almost to the point of a scratch build. I wish you the very best with the build and will be interested to see the outcome.

 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Norton961 said:

Best of luck with this, I tried to build one of these ( my friend Jim also started one at the same time) 20 od years ago and it was so bad that Jim Barnes and I decided that we could do better and started Brassmasters and we decided to develop a G2 0-8-0. 

From memory the axle centres don’t match the cut outs in the valance and the cab profile is LMS not LNWR. We never finished either loco.

The problem with these kits started with in most cases a Skinley drawing ( usually not accurate) and then the draftsperson .was not a modeller so they were difficult to build.

Anything can be built but these kits are not a good start point!

 

David

 

It took 3 decent modellers (or two and me!) to build ours. Spread over 20 years. One started it, realised how bad it was and put it away. A second "liked a challenge" and ended up scratchbuilding many parts but couldn't get it to run due to problems with the coupling rod and valve gear, which wouldn't go in the splasher as designed, if I am remembering correctly.

 

He gave up in disgust and I took pity on it some time later and made it go, after a fashion. The loco brake gear is so flimsy it bends if you look at it and the contact areas are so small for soldering that every once in a while the brake gear comes loose and causes shorts!

 

But here is the funny thing. Making a decent model out of a poor kit is actually hugely more satisfying than making a decent model from an easy one. I am not suggesting kit designers should deliberately build in problems but when we have run ours at shows, we have had several people say "I tried to do one of those and failed" and we get a rather smug glow of self satisfaction!

[k22009]

8 hours ago, t-b-g said:

He gave up in disgust and I took pity on it some time later and made it go, after a fashion. The loco brake gear is so flimsy it bends if you look at it and the contact areas are so small for soldering that every once in a while the brake gear comes loose and causes shorts!

 

But here is the funny thing. Making a decent model out of a poor kit is actually hugely more satisfying than making a decent model from an easy one. I am not suggesting kit designers should deliberately build in problems but when we have run ours at shows, we have had several people say "I tried to do one of those and failed" and we get a rather smug glow of self satisfaction!

 

The brake and valve gear are a little skinny, I'm anticipating some frustrating times if I get there. There is plenty of other modification work to do to other items too. The spectacle plate needs cutting for the rear drivers along with the base of the firebox for the drive wheel clash too. Fortunately the boiler, firebox, smokebox seem to be ok dimensionally.

You're right there is something satisfying about getting a poor kit moving. It was a shame Brassmasters never produced a Claughton.

[hayfield]

47 minutes ago, k22009 said:

 

The brake and valve gear are a little skinny, I'm anticipating some frustrating times if I get there. There is plenty of other modification work to do to other items too. The spectacle plate needs cutting for the rear drivers along with the base of the firebox for the drive wheel clash too. Fortunately the boiler, firebox, smokebox seem to be ok dimensionally.

You're right there is something satisfying about getting a poor kit moving. It was a shame Brassmasters never produced a Claughton.

 

Just a thought on skinny brake and valve gear, recently I have been building either a late Wills Finecast or an Early Southeastern Finecast SR E1. The two piece coupling rods were extremely flimsy, I obtained a while ago some old Weald E4 etches which included coupling rods, whilst having incorrect wheel base they were easily adapted to backs for one half and fronts for the other. I now have a nice sturdy set of coupling rods

 

Mainly Trains (now supplied by Wizard) sell an etch of brake rods, I would assume valve gear is available elsewhere and at worst a pack of Gibson universal rods could be useful

Edited March 25, 2020 by hayfield

[k22009]

If anyone's interested there's a short film on you tube that shows a build of a Claughton in 1913, I can't seem to add a link but search under 

 

"A Visit to Locomotive Works, Crewe (1913) | Railways on Film"

 

 

[bgman]

2 hours ago, k22009 said:

If anyone's interested there's a short film on you tube that shows a build of a Claughton in 1913, I can't seem to add a link but search under 

 

"A Visit to Locomotive Works, Crewe (1913) | Railways on Film"

 

 

 

Does this help

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeojYgl5GFE

 

[k22009]

I remembered to drill the holes for the compensation pivot before I soldered the spacers in place, sweated the coupling rods together and jointed them after snipping of the excess knuckles and fished out the springs and axle alignment jig. Slid the horn blocks onto each jig shaft and sprung them into position in the frames. Fitted the coupling rods to the outside and retained with a couple of rubber bands while I straightened the guides before soldering them in situ to the frames. At least doing it this way if the axle holes were a little out it doesn't matter as they now exactly match the coupling rods which is the important thing.

 

 

Fitted the valances and lower front footplate extension to the footplate and checked for flatness.

 

 

With wheels on to check all moved freely.

 

 

As you can see there's not much room between the front 2 axle wheel rims, I had to re drill the brake hanger holes in between as they were a little off. At least the valence slots line up nicely with the axle centres now (difficult to see from the photo).

 

Onto the boiler, firebox, cab assemblies next.

 

Dave

Edited April 29, 2023 by k22009

[Portchullin Tatty]

Dave, as a veteran of a few Falcon Brass/Jidenco kits now (none of which were easy but they were easier than scratchbuilding), there are two other cautions i will offer you.

 

The kits did not ever think about the thickness of the metal when it came to corners, thus you need to decide whether the front goes on the sides or the sides on the front (etc) and size things from there.  Given that you are obviously checking things carefully against the drawing you will work through this.

 

Typically, the boilers are made of material that is too thin once it has been half etched to form the boiler bands and is hence too flimsy.  Just drilling the holes for the handrail knobs distorted it and therefore I now automatically throw the boiler away.  I am also a person that relies on the thickness of transfers to give the relief of the boiler band, rather than solders on a shim.

 

It will fight you all the way but they can be built and the Claughton is a beautiful loco (especially in lined red!).  Here is an image of a large boiler version with creative commons licence to prove the point!

 

[k22009]

On 25/03/2020 at 21:51, Portchullin Tatty said:

The kits did not ever think about the thickness of the metal when it came to corners, thus you need to decide whether the front goes on the sides or the sides on the front (etc) and size things from there.  Given that you are obviously checking things carefully against the drawing you will work through this.

 

Typically, the boilers are made of material that is too thin once it has been half etched to form the boiler bands and is hence too flimsy.  Just drilling the holes for the handrail knobs distorted it and therefore I now automatically throw the boiler away.

 

The boiler, firebox cab sides are very thin, the material generally is only 0.30mm anyway full thickness and so half etched is quite delicate. I decided to try the boiler first, if it's a problem i'll roll another. Fortunately there's not too many corners on this, i'm checking as much as possible with the drawing and also with Essery and Toms excellent Historical Monographs for the Claughton and Patriot.

 

First up was the boiler and smokebox, the formers provided were spot on, the motor/gearbox combo I have decided on will mean the motor protrudes into the boiler a little way so I scribed a concentric circle on the boiler former and cut the majority out while it was tacked to the firebox former. The boiler was already pre rolled but it wouldn't have put up much of a fight if it had not been, soldered up the seam and added the formers at the ends, sweated the smokebox wrapper onto the boiler end and shaped the base to suit. I then added a small full length sliver of lead sheet about 10mm wide and glued this  to the inside where the handrail knobs will go. This will act as a stiffener for the thin brass but also in the same instance add much need weight. The smokebox door is a brass turning, it's not the greatest so before I titivate it myself to try and improve it i'll maybe see if I can find a supplier who does one just in case.

 

 

 

 

 

Putting this to one side I then soldered the firebox formers to the firebox wrapper, I also added a couple of rods at the base between the 2 formers front and back to stiffen the unit whilst I formed the shape. Once this had been formed I marked out where the rear drivers would foul and cut this out. The washout plugs were the raised type so I filed those flush and following Mike Edge's technique drilled a 1mm dia hole on the centre of each and again added some lead strip to the inside. Once this was set I drilled the former with a 1.6 dia drill so as just to take the brass away leaving the lead behind. I then added some 0.75mm sq bar into the drilled 1 mm hole, pushed this through the lead and glued them in place. (Photo taken before the washout plugs were added).

 

 

The cab sides were again half etched so I sweated a piece of brass on the inside. Before adding the cab sides to the footplate I decided to make it up as a unit as the spectacle plate fell on the shaped section of footplate and I wanted to be certain that the curves lined up correctly as there was a distinct absence of any location tabs or mark etc.

 

 

There is nothing provided for inside the cab at all, so i'll make up a floor, some splasher covers, backhead, doors etc. Thatl'll be next.

 

Dave

Edited April 29, 2023 by k22009

[k22009]

Plenty done this afternoon, boiler and firebox soldered together. I have drilled the cab spectacle plate and the rear of the firebox to take a 10ba bolt, I've soldered this to the cab, as I can get the nut on from underneath the firebox where the motor/gearbox will go. There is also a soldered nut under the smokebox lined up with where the cylinder assembly will be on the chassis, so the boiler/firebox can be removed for painting  etc.

The splashers went together without any problem apart from them being about 2mm too short, the wheels are tight underneath, I may line the underside with some tape to stop any shorting that may occur. I also made up a small box that covers where the reversing lever mechanism comes out of the cab on the left side. 

 

 

 

As I mentioned in the previous post there was nothing supplied for the cab so I made a floor and scored it to represent planking, cobbled together a couple of splasher covers and the reversing lever support. The back head will need some work on it and I've to make up a manifold, regulator handle and a few hand wheels. I stiffened the top of the cab as it was very thin and flimsy, I kept catching it, so I added some 1mm angle to the inside which the handrail fits better to also added was a pair of doors courtesy of Mainly Trains etches.

 

 

I'll leave the rest of the detailing items for now and i'll probably start work on the chassis next getting sandboxes, brakes, bogie etc in place.

 

Dave

Edited April 29, 2023 by k22009

[t-b-g]

You are not messing about with the build. I wish I could get on so quickly. The loco is looking really nice indeed. 

[TT-Pete]

2 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

You are not messing about with the build. I wish I could get on so quickly. The loco is looking really nice indeed. 

 

Here here! My builds are sometimes measured in decades. Looking lovely already.

[k22009]

Thanks for the kind comments, not too much done this weekend, busy with other domestic deeds.

 

The crossheads were a 4 part etch, I added a small collar and 1mm dia piston rod

 

 

I cut some 0.75mm square bar to form the slide bars and soldered these to both the front and rear cylinder formers for added strength, a tube with an I/d of 1mm also added for the piston rode to slide in. It all went together well, slid the assembly onto the slots in the frames along with the motion bracket, cut the slidebars back to suit this.

 

 

It was then I thought ok i'll check the connecting rod length to see how it might affect anything. Slid the front axle assembly into its guides and held the con rod over the crank pin. Oh dear, it only just reached the motion bracket so no chance of connecting it to the crosshead. I lifted everything back off the frames, unsoldered the slide bars added longer ones and repositioned the motion bracket 2mm farther back so that the con rod would now just connect to the crosshead at the end of it's travel. I also had to move the expansion link brackets on the motion bracket inboard as these were very tight between the valences and would not have allowed any room to fit a pin/rivet/bolt. 

Cylinder wrappers added (these were a little narrow but will be ok),  I made up 4 small sandboxes and fitted these to the frames along with the brake hanger wire.

 

 

I'll make the brakes up next so they are removable, I may add a brake cylinder and reservoir under the cab if I can. I've decided not to use the one with the kit as it's very basic, so I have a spare Comet one which i'll assemble and trial fit. The chassis will be pretty close to getting primed then.

 

Dave

Edited April 29, 2023 by k22009