CDC Design (Inc. Street Level Models, The Condensed Loco Company and Thanet Loco Works)

[sem34090]

Morning all!

 

First up a caveat - Whilst not officially part of CDC Design, I am very good friends with the proprietors and we help each other with various projects (and as one of them just pointed out wrote most of the D40 page on the website... I suppose I am part of it then...)

 

The range of kits is seeing something of a rebirth currently, and for the first time 3D Printed loco bodies are being offered directly. The first of these is the ex-GER J69 'Buckjumper' 0-6-0T in LNER/BR condition. This is designed to fit the old Hornby/Dapol terrier chassis, and is supplied pre-painted and varnished, requiring only numbering, insignia and... That's it! Currently the options are any colour you like (so long as it's black), as this was standard for the class in LNER and BR days. (6)8619 will be offered in due course, as will pre grouping versions.

Also available is the NLR 79 Class 0-6-0T, to fit the standard Jouef/Electrotren 0-6-0T chassis. This is to the same specification as the J69, and likewise will see pre-grouping versions in due course. A Cromford and High Peak layout is tempting me now, as is a London-area one...

The bodies are printed in resin, so do not suffer from the poor surface quality that some 3D prints suffer from. They will be made available via Ebay, here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?sid=cdcmodels&isRefine=true There are generally only a few in stock at any one time (I know that a further batch of J69s is being worked on currently) so if they're not shown check again soon.

 

Also in the works is a strictly limited run of RTR Locomotives, starting with the GNoSR V/F/SECR G/LNER D40. This is at an early stage of development but is on course for release this year, conditions permitting.

Edited March 24, 2020 by sem34090

[sem34090]

We (or, at least, the proprietors of CDC Design - Still not sure whether I count as one or not!) are currently contemplating what else might fit the old terrier chassis. A J65 and other GER 0-6-0Ts are being looked into, but we were wondering what else people might come up with.

 

Any suggestions?

[L49]

I think you count as part of the team Sir Eustace...

Edited March 25, 2020 by L49

[sem34090]

 

 

[Poor Old Bruce]

I have recently purchased a 3D printed North London 0-6-0T body off e-bay and all credit to those who have designed it. Purchase was painless and delivery fast BUT (yes, big BUT) I find that the footplate is 2mm wider over the tanks than at the ends i.e. the tanks bow outwards on each side. As there was no paperwork with the body, like who made it and where it came from, I am left to deduce that it is of CDC Design/Thanet Locomotive Works origin, having seen their advert in BRM, as I cannot imagine there is a glut of people out there intent on printing the things. All the CDC Design web site has is a "Contact us" link on which to leave comments. Having left a comment shortly after purchasing the body, I have received no response. Is the deformity something that the average modeller can correct (if so, how?) or should I return it (to a non-existent address) as something which has escaped quality control? Is it really fair to sell products which can reasonably described as defective and not fit for purpose?

 

I understand that at least one other member of RMWeb, from whom I learned of the NLR body in the first place, has a similar problem with his product.

 

Having viewed the CDC Design/Thanet Loco Works site, there are other of their products which I would be particularly interested in buying, like the North Stafford Class B 2-4-0T and each version of the MR 3F 0-6-0T, which I assume will be expected to fit a Bachmann chassis. However the questions are: Will those loco bodies exhibit a similar defect? and should I really be expected to spend over £200 with a producer which gives no apparent after-sales service for a £42 purchase.

[Corbs]

Hi Bruce, do you have a photo of the body? Splaying can sometimes happen on 3D printing with certain resins and designs. I have previously managed to correct some to an extent or work around them.

[Poor Old Bruce]

22 hours ago, Corbs said:

Hi Bruce, do you have a photo of the body? Splaying can sometimes happen on 3D printing with certain resins and designs. I have previously managed to correct some to an extent or work around them.

 

I'll take some - watch this space.

[Poor Old Bruce]

On 06/08/2020 at 12:09, Corbs said:

Hi Bruce, do you have a photo of the body? Splaying can sometimes happen on 3D printing with certain resins and designs. I have previously managed to correct some to an extent or work around them.

 

2 hours ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

I'll take some - watch this space.

 

Photos:

 

 

 

 

 

Is this a fundamental flaw with 3D printing an open box and should there be some way round it like (perhaps - I have no experience of CAD or 3D printing whatsoever) printing cross stays within the tanks and leaving the thing to cure properly (if that's what they need to do) before removal? If you can't print something simple like an open box, the whole system seems to be a non-starter to me.

[L49]

Hi Bruce. I have sent you a PM. The issue seems to be connected to the hot weather, as I have had some issues with the new GER R24 doing similar even after being fully cured for three days or more. I have been experimenting with ways to cure the problem including the cross stay idea, although that is not the most successful. If you run the body under warm to hot water, then it will easily be pushed back Into true. Leave it on its side under some weight to cool and it will be fine.

[Corbs]

25 minutes ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

Photo

Is this a fundamental flaw with 3D printing an open box and should there be some way round it like (perhaps - I have no experience of CAD or 3D printing whatsoever) printing cross stays within the tanks and leaving the thing to cure properly (if that's what they need to do) before removal? If you can't print something simple like an open box, the whole system seems to be a non-starter to me.

 

Hello Bruce

 

Yes this is what I suspected and I have had the same issue. It can happen with any open shape but temperature, curing and resin type all seem to be a factor. Weirdly I have seen it more in one type of printer than the other but that may be coincidence or a different factor.

 

As above, what I would do is put it in the bathroom sink under a hot tap getting the whole thing warm. If you have a desk vice with rubber clamp covers you can put it in this, gently squeeze it back and leave it to cool. Don't be tempted to overtighten! 3D printed plastic has very little natural flex in it and instead will just snap.

 

 

[Poor Old Bruce]

Thanks guys. Dunked in the wash basin, now cooling in vice. See what it's like later.

[L49]

Cooling in vice... sounds like a visit to Soho police station...

 

Hope she comes out ok. Keep me posted if I can help with anything.

[Poor Old Bruce]

Had a go with the hot water which has brought it in a bit, in fact I thought it was better last night than it is this morning. Now I know what to do, I am tempted to have another go to over-squeeze it a bit and see what happens.

[Poor Old Bruce]

21 hours ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

Had a go with the hot water which has brought it in a bit, in fact I thought it was better last night than it is this morning. Now I know what to do, I am tempted to have another go to over-squeeze it a bit and see what happens.

 

Did that yesterday and left it in the vice overnight. Looks OK this morning, will see if it stays that way over the next few days.

 

Questions for L49 and team: What's the availability of the MR 0-6-0Ts? and am I correct in assuming they should fit the Bachmann Jinty chassis?

[sem34090]

As far as I'm aware the MR tanks are only available via Shapeways, so are not available in pre-painted resin. They fit the Bachmann chassis, though I believe a version for the Hornby chassis may be coming at some point.

[37079]

I have noticed the MR 2441 class and the GWR 97xx condensing panniers are now available as resin prints and at a very reasonable price! Both to fit the Hornby railroad chassis...which of course is perfectly in line with the ethos to keep this relatively cheap and easy. However, I would be looking to use a Bachmann chassis so my questions are:

 

1. will it fit (I would expect to have to do some modification but is there anything that would fundamentally means it won't fit)?

 

2. are there any compromises in dimensions for either model to fit this chassis, and if so am I better going for the  shapeways version (or waiting for a resin version to fit the Bachmann chassis)?

 

Thanks in anticipation,

 

Michael

[45568]

1 hour ago, 37079 said:

I have noticed the MR 2441 class and the GWR 97xx condensing panniers are now available as resin prints and at a very reasonable price! Both to fit the Hornby railroad chassis...which of course is perfectly in line with the ethos to keep this relatively cheap and easy. However, I would be looking to use a Bachmann chassis so my questions are:

 

1. will it fit (I would expect to have to do some modification but is there anything that would fundamentally means it won't fit)?

 

2. are there any compromises in dimensions for either model to fit this chassis, and if so am I better going for the  shapeways version (or waiting for a resin version to fit the Bachmann chassis)?

 

Thanks in anticipation,

 

Michael

Beat me to it! I'm interested in doing the same thing having had success with the J68 and NLR tanks.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[PaulG]

A couple of photos of the latest addition to my Colchester c1955 layout a CDC J68 3D body with Southeast Finecast J69 chassis (identical to J68), small Mashima motor and gearbox driving the centre wheels. With a little bit of carving out of the smoke-box and slight adjustment body/chassis,  it all fitted fine.

 

I changed the buffers to sprung buffers,  screw couplings, pipework along running plate, vac pipes etc and added a bit of weight in the side tanks, paint and lettering. Nice little project.

 

Now watch as Hornby announce a J67/8/9 0-6-0T next week!

 

Paul Goldsmith

Edited January 1, 2021 by PaulG

[Brian D]

 

Prompted by the article in the March "Hornby Magazine", I purchased the J67/1 body.  I wanted to source a Dapol/Hornby Terrier chassis but found that no Dapol Terriers could be found on the usual auction site and there weren't too many Hornby Terriers to be found either but I did manage to "win" a Hornby BR version but I wouldn't call it a cheep purchase at £51 + £5 postage, but I might get some cash back for the Terrier body.

 

It really is a 5 minute job to swap bodies on the Hornby chassis and the chassis is a decent runner.  Here are the assembly pics.

 

 

 

 

 

Far from complete but I did make a short video of the loco on my layout "Deneside" and you can view it here.

 

 

Regards,

Brian.

[Nick C]

21 hours ago, Brian D said:

I wanted to source a Dapol/Hornby Terrier chassis but found that no Dapol Terriers could be found on the usual auction site and there weren't too many Hornby Terriers to be found either but I did manage to "win" a Hornby BR version but I wouldn't call it a cheep purchase at £51 + £5 postage, but I might get some cash back for the Terrier body.

If anyone else is after a Hornby Terrier...

[Windjabbers]

Me:- ok so I don’t need anymore 4mm ex-GER locos. I have enough! 

 

Also me:- This has just arrived from cdcmodels. Really really impressed both with cdcmodels (very helpful) and the model itself.

 

The J67/9 are a hideously complicated class so this was a good option for me. It’s basically a way of getting a bespoke locomotive body. 

 

This is one of the class that was long term resident of Cambridge, although it doesn’t to seem to have done much work after the diesels (Class 03’s) arrived in 58.
 

Just need to sort the chassis out now. Does any of the terrier chassis offer a DCC option?

 

But that’s it no more ex GER loco’s

 

Oh look they also do the J68.....

 

Best Wishes

 

David 

[37079]

I've noticed there is now another new addition to the range - SECR R1 (full height and cut down versions) to fit the Hornby 0-6-0 chassis.

 

Michael

[Nick C]

16 hours ago, 37079 said:

I've noticed there is now another new addition to the range - SECR R1 (full height and cut down versions) to fit the Hornby 0-6-0 chassis.

 

Michael

I ordered one of those last week, it arrived today. It looks very impressive, a few lines from the printing, but barely visible from normal viewing distance. 

 

Just got to get hold of a chassis now...

[JSpencer]

On 20/05/2021 at 05:56, 37079 said:

I've noticed there is now another new addition to the range - SECR R1 (full height and cut down versions) to fit the Hornby 0-6-0 chassis.

 

Michael

 

I ordered one and recieved it this week. Very well done. Excellent service, well packed. I went for 31010 in very early 1950s guise.

 

I've gone for the Cab cut down version as I've been a bit of C&W line fan since I was a kid! 

 

Aside from a Hornby chassis, I will be adding the sandboxes underneath the running plat (quite distinctive to my mind on this class). And I think the only obvious tweek to the design I could see would be to included the sand filler caps on the front running plate (2 small round discs, easy to add).

[plasticbasher]

This is my amateur review of a 3D printed loco body-shell of an SECR / Southern / BR class R1 0-6-0 tank locomotive which I also received from CDC Models this week.  This is not wholly objective as some personal bias is exhibited in my remarks below.

 

For anyone looking for a class history, please look at this page on Wikipedia:  SER R class - Wikipedia

 

What do you get?

• The (not inconsiderable) investment of £48 at 2021 prices gets you a completely assembled and painted loco body-shell which is a direct fit on the current Hornby generic 0-6-0 loco chassis (ie. Hornby’s Railroad Jinty’s, J13 / J52’s, J83’s, Panniers, Thomases etc).
• An extra £10 will get the loco body-shell numbered too.
• It comes with quite a pleasing amount of separate (but integrally moulded?) fine detail like lamp-irons, handrails and various pipes.
• The only assembly required genuinely is to clip the chassis into the body.

 

Appearance

• Crucially, the CDC Models body-shell  looks like photos of an SECR R1 loco; much more so than the 1959 Hornby Dublo (and later Wrenn)  model.
• Overall it is a considerable improvement on what has been available for the average modeller.
• However, the model sits noticeably too high on the Hornby chassis, and this does spoil the look:
  • The real R1 has a pleasing hint of “hunkered down power” which is lost by the body-shell sitting that 1.5 to 2mm too high.
  • The Hornby Dublo / Wrenn model sits at the correct height and so looks much better in this respect.
  • I believe the CDC Models body-shell sits too high because the cab floor sits on the top of the chassis and this dictates the height the body-shell has to sit on the chassis.
• The finish on the model is very good for a 3D printed model, but;
  • The usual 3D printed “layering” is faintly visible over the entire body-shell. I repeat this is faint, but it is apparent on close inspection.  This made me glad not to have paid extra for a lettered body-shell.
  • The red paint applied to the buffer beams is a little “watery” and translucent.
• Two buffer heads on mine were damaged/ misshaped (I plan on replacing them with turned metal ones anyway, so will not pretend I’m personally bothered).
• I believe the body-shell is moulded in one piece and frustratingly there is no practicable way to get at the cab interior (which ironically looks really good…) for painting or adding crew.

 

Accuracy

I have a copy of the JH Russell book “A Pictorial Record of Southern Locomotives which has scale plans for the SECR R1 (pages 56 to 58). I haven’t got the calipers out and done a detailed measuring session, but overall the model is nicely accurate with a few minor compromises:

• The generic Hornby chassis wheelbase is much closer to scale than the (way too short) Hornby Dublo / Wrenn model’s chassis.  I suspect Hornby’s is 1mm too short between the centre and rear wheels, whereas the Hornby Dublo / Wrenn one is about 5 or 6mm too short overall.
• The CDC Models loco body-shell is therefore on a more “scale accurate” chassis and so the dimensional distortions all over the older Hornby Dublo model are not found to anything like the same degree.
• The wheels on the Hornby generic chassis are fractionally too small for an R1 (19mm –v- 20mm); I personally think that makes the “body too high” issue visually slightly more apparent unfortunately.
• However the CDC Models body-shell does have some compromises to allow it to use the Hornby chassis clip fit attachments. I think this results in 2mm extra on the footplate and this is partly hidden in a slightly stretched boiler.

The lamp irons moulded above the front bufferbeam should be closer to the front edge and the lamp-irons in the rear of the bodyshell are clearly moulded on (but crisply).

 

There is no coal load present, but I think most purchasers would rather add their own than have a moulded representation of coal (which I imagine won’t be easy to 3D print).

 

I cannot make up my mind over the boiler and cab doorway handrails…are they integrally moulded?  If so the designer is a genius, but I fear for their long term resilience / robustness.

 

Quality

• Generally the picture is positive.  The body-shell does what it says on the tin and is effectively plug and play.
• Unfortunately there is distortion in the side tanks on my example, which are both bowing outwards, despite having substantial internal reinforcing strips moulded into them.
  • o    I’m pretty sure part of the 3D printing process involves curing the completed print under UV light (I stand to be corrected) and if so, maybe my body-shell needed a longer blast of UV?
  • It might be my imagination, but I think this bowing of the tanks has gradually got worse over the past 48 hours, so I shall monitor over the next week before deciding if it is something I dare fix (hot water) or necessitates returning to CDC Models.
• Two of my body-shell’s buffer-heads were damaged on receipt of the loco (looking closely, one before painting silver and one after):
  • The box and the bubblewrap the body-shell were received in were good quality and I am comfortable this was not the postman’s fault.
  • That is of no consequence to me because the buffers will definitely be replaced.  Other purchasers may not be so ambivalent at a cost of nearly £50.
• I suspect the vast majority of purchasers will be more than happy with the  finish, but I’m keen to improve it. The minor paint issues (translucent buffer beam red and the 3D printing  showing through the black paint) have made me determined to gently rub the paint down, prime and repaint; so I am glad I did not pay for the numbered body-shell. 

 

Value

Here is where things get hugely subjective.  Model railways is a rather expensive way to burn money and everything needs to be seen in that context - we should always remember £50 is a hell of a lot of money to many people.

• Assuming you want to have a 100% new CDC Models R1 tank loco, I reckon (after some in depth research taking all of 2-3 minutes) that a new Hornby Railroad Jinty can be picked up for £35 if you shop around.
  • That makes a pleasantly accurate and reliable model of an SECR R1 for around £85-£95.
  • The quality of finish and level of detail put the R1 at or maybe slightly above “railroad” standards, but below “super detail” standards.
  • Given this body-shell comes from a small (one-man-band?) manufacturer without the benefits of economies of scale, I think that is a reasonable total outlay.
• To counter that, I think that the “offering” lacks designed-in flexibility for many people with a “modelling persuasion”.  For example
  • I would like to be able to get at the cab.
  • I would have been very happy with “supply and fit your own” metal handrails.
  • I would rather not pay for the painting that is part of the standard £48 offering (given I want to deal with the slight ribbed effect).
• However CDC Models have to pick a package they can sell in adequate volume and they probably have a better picture of their customer-base than I do..!  Adding options adds complication and cost from their perspective.  I reckon the painted for £48 and painted + numbered for £58 is probably a good pricing model for them and a reasonable compromise for a market that will never be satisfied…

Acid test; would I buy another at this price?  Yes, on balance I would.

 

Strong Points

• This is the best option to get a model of an SECR R1 loco, unless your skills extend to brass or whitemetal kit construction to acceptable levels.  It should also work out as a considerably cheaper option than a kit by the time wheels and motor are purchases for the kit .
• This is almost a ready to run option, you just need to find a running chassis.
• The suggested “generic” Hornby 060 chassis will be easily purchased, easily maintained and very useable to the majority of modellers in comparison to other options.
  • Performance of these chassis is good to excellent in my experience.
  • Current consumption will be low, DCC decoder fitting will be easy (some of the Hornby models are DCC fitted from the factory).
  • Spares are abundant and cheap.
  • All of the above considered, pound for pound, I reckon they are by far the best choice CDC Models could have made for this loco.
  • Earlier versions from about 1987 to 2010 have a sprung rear axle and traction tyres, (wheels and motion are finer and chemically blackened from about 2000 onwards), but I personally much prefer the current (unsprung) chassis without traction tyres.

 

Areas for Improvement:

• I’m not really qualified to make this assertion, but I suspect the curing of the printed body-shells may not be adequate (bowed tank sides).
• I would have deleted a central section of the cab floor to allow the body-shell to sit at scale height on the chassis block (I think that would bring the body down to scale height and may well try it myself).
• I would have made the cab roof a clip-fit separate component, maybe secured with a spot of UHU glue or similar…I’d really like to paint that cab interior without having to destroy half the model..!
• Most of the second-hand Hornby generic chassis I have encountered have broken fixing lugs (and the plastic underframes which include the lugs are frequently on back-order with Hornby).  So maybe instructing purchasers to cut the lugs off and take advantage of the existing pre-drilled holes for the Hornby coupling screws would have meant a more secure way of mating body and chassis without the minor dimensional compromises the lugs have forced the designer to accommodate

 

Conclusion

An unscientific and subjective eight out of ten.  I rather like this model and am impressed with what CDC Models have accomplished.  I’m not blind to the issues, but I would definitely not be averse to purchasing more models from CDC Models in future.

Edited June 5, 2021 by plasticbasher