Which train returned Pressflo 'empties' to Lewes/Southerham Rugby Cement works?

[C126]

I am working on a project plotting non-passenger trains on the Southern Region in the early 1970's, and can not see, in the few 'Mandatory' and 'Conditional' time tables I have from 1972/1974, when the Pressflo 'empties' were dropped off at Southerham (returning from Norwood Yards, I believe).  The train of loaded hoppers departed at 10.15 from Newhaven Town Yard, 10.54 from Southerham Sidings (EDL, 7C52), arriving at Brighton Top Yard at 11.20.

 

However, the only Down train I can see is the 7G55 01.50 departure from Norwood, arriving at Newhaven Town Yard 03.24.  I can see nothing in any 'notes' column to say the train shunted Southerham Sidings on the way down.  Does anyone know if it did, and dropped off the empty Pressflos?  I would be most grateful to read of any memories or documentation that confirms this.  My understanding of the various time table types is rather inadequate, so perhaps I have just mis-read something.

 

Thanks as ever for giving this your consideration, and please accept my best wishes to you all in these times.

[roythebus]

Do you mean Southam cement works, a few miles from rugby or is there another place called Southerham?

 

I was a secondman at Rugby in late 1974 and through 1975 and worked the Southam branch from Rugby via Bilton cement works, then Marton junction, run round and back to Southam. By that time there were no presflo workings out of either of the cement works that I ever saw or worked. the only traffic we worked was 16t mineral wagons loaded with coal or the return empties.

 

[Fat Controller]

22 minutes ago, roythebus said:

Do you mean Southam cement works, a few miles from rugby or is there another place called Southerham?

 

I was a secondman at Rugby in late 1974 and through 1975 and worked the Southam branch from Rugby via Bilton cement works, then Marton junction, run round and back to Southam. By that time there were no presflo workings out of either of the cement works that I ever saw or worked. the only traffic we worked was 16t mineral wagons loaded with coal or the return empties.

 

Southerham is on the South Coast, near Lewes

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, roythebus said:

Do you mean Southam cement works, a few miles from rugby or is there another place called Southerham?

Southerham Junction is where the Newhaven and Seaford branch leaves the Brighton - Eastbourne line.

 

I have a vague recollection of an 01.15 Norwood to Eastbourne, but that may have ceased by 1972. Perhaps the empties would have been on the 00.34 Norwood to Brighton? 

[stovepipe]

I think this post might have some of the information required. Basically 0150 MX (0355 MO) seems to have been the working as suggested.

 

 

[C126]

Thanks to you all for your replies, and sorry for the ambiguity.  Definitely Southerham on the S.R. Central Div.

 

I assume the 'empties' were brought down on the 01.50 from Norwood, left at Newhaven Town Yard, and then taken back on the run to Brighton, where they were shunted for the 'fulls' to take away northwards.  This saves the cost of running a train specific for that flow, of course.  If there is anyone out there who would share memories of working this service, I hope I am not alone in being eager to hear them.  Thanks again.

[Nearholmer]

The question might be extended to coal, because I’m pretty certain that the cement works took that in, in fair volume.

 

They had a very nicely maintained Yorkshire Engine Co. 0-4-0DS, black livery, which used to be stabled in a little yard beside the road when not in use. It would be used to shuttle wagons between the exchange siding and the works several times each day.

[C126]

Much to my surprise, I have been able to locate easily my photographs of the dear little engine...

 

 

 

 

 

Hope they are of interest.

[number6]

 

They definitely are. After they shut the line down I guess?

 

I’d like to know as well. (See my signature for a 4mm Lewes East and Southerham). Have always assumed by this date that everything was worked in and out in the up direction from trains from Newhaven so I'm all ears. 

 

Re coal: I have images of loaded and empty coal 16tonners in both roads of the loop - I don't think I have an image of the diesel on the south end of anything from the works so possibly they propelled them out to the mainline? I remember it running into the works but no memory of the outward workings. 

 

I built a version of the shunter by slicing up an Airfix Drewry and lots of Airfix Presflos before Bachmann made them. 

 

[number6]

Found an image of the loaded and fulls together. This suggests two visits by passing freights?

 

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?img=G-165-07A&serial=4764&page=297

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Amazing, never thought I’d see that loco again!

 

Yes, it used to be on the ‘works’ end of every cut to and from the sidings, but what I can’t recall is whether there was a runaround loop inside the works - be worth checking maps.

 

Pictures must be after closure, because the whole operation was very neat, tidy, and span in operation.

 

Keep up the good work; this is all a real memory-jogger for me.

 

BIL and COR stock lasted a long time on the service to Seaford, so would make a good inclusion until c1972.

 

Another memory of that area is that there was a derailment of a passenger train at about your date, because a signalman got tangled-up

in operating the block, and used an emergency key to release a back-lock when he shouldn’t have. Accident report here http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=1153

 

And, about 1980, when a rail crane fell over while new spans from the bridge were being lifted-in.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Davexoc]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Yes, it used to be on the ‘works’ end of every cut to and from the sidings, but what I can’t recall is whether there was a runaround loop inside the works - be worth checking maps.

 

Map here shows Lewes Cement Works, now Cliffe Industrial Estate

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=50.86728&lon=0.02358&layers=170&right=BingHyb

[roythebus]

Of course, me forgetting that Rugby Cement was the trade name of the stuff as well! 

 

The south coast lines were never part of my territory!

[acg5324]

I have this picture of the return empties at Lewes. I have a few WTTs from the era, I’ll check them later....might even have a track layout diagram of the cement works.

 

https://zenfolio.page.link/aFmW5

Edited March 26, 2020 by acg5324
Picture added

[Nearholmer]

That train is heading towards Brighton, isn’t it? (It’s so long since I was there that memory is flakey, so it might be heading towards Hayward’s Heath)) If so, surely it is ‘fulls’.

 

Very good picture whichever.

 

K

[number6]

Also see here in 1977 from John Turner on Flickr:

 

I note that the maximum load into Southerham sidings was 25swl. That was never going to happen in 1977!

 

[acg5324]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

That train is heading towards Brighton, isn’t it? (It’s so long since I was there that memory is flakey, so it might be heading towards Hayward’s Heath)) If so, surely it is ‘fulls’.

 

Very good picture whichever.

 

K

Blonde moment......of course they are the fulls!

Edited March 26, 2020 by acg5324

[acg5324]

Found my Central Division track plans.....this is dated May 1966.

If anyone wants blow ups of other parts just ask.

[number6]

Splendid stuff. Can we see Asham Cement down the valley towards Newhaven too? 

[acg5324]

No problem..................

[number6]

Oh I just spotted it! Sorry.

 

To be honest you could photograph the whole thing in enlargement. What a work of art. And playing no reference to geography or north south etc. I am amazed the draughtsman chose this arrangement.

[acg5324]

No sign of Asham.....this is all of the Seaford branch.

[number6]

Thanks. Its called Alpha Cement on this map. Just north of Southease and Rodmell. Obviously only worked by down trains.

[bécasse]

What the map shows is that any down freight train working the sidings must have been heading towards Polegate. There was still regular freight to Newhaven as the Senlac was bunkered using oil from rail-borne tanks, and my suspicion would certainly be that down traffic for the cement works sidings was worked via Newhaven so that only one call was required. Even in the "good old days" it was surprisingly common for yards to be worked in this way.

 

[acg5324]

The London area ones are superb too.