Which train returned Pressflo 'empties' to Lewes/Southerham Rugby Cement works?

[Nearholmer]

The sidings at Alpha Cement were provided with powered capstan/s for rope shunting, but I never saw the system used, so am slightly baffled about how the sidings were operated.

 

There was another cement works at Glynde, on the Up side, country side of the station.

[C126]

19 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Amazing, never thought I’d see that loco again!

 

Yes, it used to be on the ‘works’ end of every cut to and from the sidings, but what I can’t recall is whether there was a runaround loop inside the works - be worth checking maps.

 

Pictures must be after closure, because the whole operation was very neat, tidy, and span in operation.

 

Keep up the good work; this is all a real memory-jogger for me.

 

BIL and COR stock lasted a long time on the service to Seaford, so would make a good inclusion until c1972.

 

Another memory of that area is that there was a derailment of a passenger train at about your date, because a signalman got tangled-up

in operating the block, and used an emergency key to release a back-lock when he shouldn’t have. Accident report here http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=1153

 

And, about 1980, when a rail crane fell over while new spans from the bridge were being lifted-in.

 

This was in 1985, when it was announced the site was to be sold by Rugby Portland Cement Co. for an industrial estate.  I mentioned my intention to photograph it all before demolition to a school chum, and he replied there was a little shunter there, about which I knew nothing.  I believe the loco went to the Spa Valley Line (Tunbridge Wells West-Eridge), and it still appears on their fleet list:

 

https://www.spavalleyrailway.co.uk/article.php/18/stock-list

 

Thanks for the coal-filled mineral wagons shot.  I remember only the Presflos in the sidings, with orange "Rugby Cement" signs on the sides, when we travelled past on numerous trips to Newhaven beach.  Had to get a few when Bachmann brought them out, even if I have nothing to run them on.

 

I went down to Lewes station to photograph the engineers train that removed the final simplified loop and single-slip crossing at about 02.00 one morning, staying up by watching a couple of Bollywood films back-to-back to stay awake.  Of course, I can not find my notes or 'wobbly' photo from the time now, to my fury.  I remember the last layout was a facing 'loop' off a single slip from the down line, with the slip allowing crossing to the Up Line from the sidings.  The 'Up side' engineers siding was removed at the same time.

 

Many thanks for all your contributions.

Edited March 26, 2020 by C126
Year of photos confirmed. Add track layout comment.

[SED Freightman]

As has already been pointed out, certainly in the latter years, traffic for Southerham circulated via Newhaven Town Yd, with empty and loaded wagons being exchanged during a stop on a Newhaven to Brighton service.  I have dug out the following details of the services involved which might be of interest :-

 

SR WTT of Mandatory Services, Section M - 01/05/1972 to 06/05/1973

7G55 0150 MX Norwood Yd to Newhaven Town Yd arr.0324 - Worked by EDL, Headcode 1K

7C52 1015 SX Newhaven Town Yd to Brighton Top Yd arr.1120 - Worked by EDL, Headcode 3B.  Called Southerham Sgs 1027 to 1049.  Loco for this service arrived as 0Y43 0910 ex Eastbourne (after working 0730 Vans ex Brighton). Traffic forward from Brighton on 6E63 1301to Temple Mills.

 

SR WTT of Conditional Services, Section WK - 08/05/1978 to 06/05/1979 - By this time remaining VB traffic was routed via Brighton

6K35 0917 SX Brighton Top Yd to Newhaven Town Yd arr.0952 - Worked by EDL, Headcode 3B

6K36 1018 SX Newhaven Town Yd to Brighton Top Yd arr.1118. - Worked by EDL, Headcode 3B. Called Southerham Sdgs 1032 to 1052.

 

The SX service continued basically unchanged until 03/08/1981 when the continuing decline in VB traffic saw a reduction to twice weekly in an amended service commencing from 05/08/1981 :-

6K41 1154 WFO Brighton Top Yd to Newhaven Town Yd arr.1232 - Worked by EDL, Headcode 3B

6K42 1315 WFO Newhaven Town Yd to Brighton Top Yd arr.1419 - Worked by EDL, Headcode 3B. Called Southerham Sdgs 1330 to 1351.

 

From 07/09/1981 additional air braked block trains were introduced to convey cement from Halling, presumably for distribution from Southerham as the Cement Works was wound down, or was there a short term demand for additional cement in the area ? Block trains were scheduled as follows in addition to the twicw weekly VB service :-

6Y47 0415 MWO Halling RPC Sdg to Southerham Sdgs arr.0959 TThO - Worked by DL to Redhill thence EDL, Headcode 8J. Ran via Newhaven Town Yd 0930 to 0940.

6Y91 1331 TThO Southerham Sdgs to Halling RPC Sdg arr.2023 - Worked by EDL to Tonbridge W Yd thence DL, Headcode 8J.

 

The VB service (6K42) ceased to call at Southerham Sdgs after 01/01/1982 and the empty service to Halling (6Y91)

was last scheduled to run on 31/12/1981, however the last services were no doubt earlier as they were unlikely to have operated over the 1981 Christmas & New Year period.

 

Does anyone have a photo of the short lived service from Halling ?

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by SED Freightman
Date corrected for reduction of VB service

[Nearholmer]

The big local cement-demand was Lewes bypass, lots of bridges, including a viaduct right over the site we’re talking about, and a big tunnel, but that was c1975-81, so I think finished by the time the flow from Halling started.

 

I wonder if that flow was just to keep pace with ordinary steady demand, unless there were big sea-defence works going on too??

 

What do others think?

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Belatedly got around to checking the IRS handbook, which shows that the black diesel Shunter was DC2591/1959, which makes it baby brother of a BR Class 04.

 

I would swear blind it carried YEC plates, though, because I remember writing the details down after having a cab-ride. Maybe it was rebuilt or overhauled by YEC at some point.

 

The book also has a photo showing the preceding steam loco HL2532/1902 propelling a couple of vans into the works, so at the country end of the cut. That loco wasn’t scrapped until 1968, although the diesel arrived in 1960.

 

Also, there is a truly superb image on Britain from Above, showing the works and railway in 1932 (EPW039412). If you log-in to get HD, the detail in it is astonishingly clear.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Nearholmer

[SED Freightman]

Having now studied the information on www.cementkilns.co.uk, it would appear that production at Southerham ceased on 31/07/1981 following commissioning of a new kiln at Halling, although the site continued to be used as a (distribution) depot for a short time.  This would suggest that the introduction of the service from Halling for the last three months of 1981 was needed to supplement stocks of cement on site following the end of production, until local road distribution was transferred elsewhere.  Once production at Southerham ceased I guess the need for the twice weekly VB service to call would have ceased once any remaining coal and presflo wagons had been removed.

[number6]

I was not paying attention at school in Lewes right next to the line in 1981 but I cannot recall these AB trains... Everything else: bananas, short lived freightliners, Galley Hill tanks, Ford Vans - what wagons would they have been - also Presflos? or something else?

 

I pieced together this to help with my model landscaping - and bought prints from them - this is next to useless at this scale so hope okay to post. Britain from Above is a wonderful resource - you can lose yourself in there... Note in this image that loaded wagons are in the headshunt that leads out onto the Eastbourne down suggesting they are being dropped off from a freight working in that direction and not from Newhaven - this being the 'good old days' of course.

 

And also my models of the DC2591 and the Hawthorn Leslie which I haven't plucked the courage to add the wood dumb buffers and mess it up with dents and chalk dust.

[Hump Shunter]

I took this photo of the entrance in 1982 (after closure).

 

[SED Freightman]

1 hour ago, number6 said:

I was not paying attention at school in Lewes right next to the line in 1981 but I cannot recall these AB trains... Everything else: bananas, short lived freightliners, Galley Hill tanks, Ford Vans - what wagons would they have been - also Presflos? or something else?

Most likely a short rake of PCA wagons as used on the Halling to Southampton traffic.  Although appearing in the timetable for three months the Halling service may only have operated a few times, if at all, as it may just have acted as an insurance policy incase stocks at Southerham were used up before all operations came to an end.  Hopefully someone will come up with a photo of the serevice which operated via Redhill and Tonbridge.

[acg5324]

Like this maybe.......undated image.

https://zenfolio.page.link/ViR36

[number6]

Well done - did anything escape your lens Andy?! 

[acg5324]

15 hours ago, number6 said:

Well done - did anything escape your lens Andy?! 

Thank you, Not my photo, a friend who lived in Bugs Hill. I’ve always wondered what the train could be. I’ll properly post the photo today, can only link from my IPad.

[acg5324]

Edited March 28, 2020 by acg5324

[C126]

Just found a few more detailed shots of the 'tramway', among the latest batch of scans completed.  Hope they are of interest.  All taken 13th December, 1990.  I remember seeing where the track reached the black tarmac boundary of the works themselves (now the industrial estate), they were sawn through, not simply covered in tarmac.

 

 

[Harlyboo807]

I used to work on this line, if I can help in anyway please let me know and I will see if I can help... 

[C126]

19 hours ago, Harlyboo807 said:

I used to work on this line, if I can help in anyway please let me know and I will see if I can help... 

 

Forgive the brevity, but I hope I am not alone in wishing to thank you for your kind offer.  Are you sure you realise for what you have volunteered...?  Just for clarity, did you work on the cement works 'tramway', or on goods trains serving the exchange sidings, please?  Thanks again for your help in advance.

[Harlyboo807]

Hi all I worked in the cement works and was the shunter on the train when the it was the shunters holiday/sick or if the train diver was on holiday/sick the shunter would do the driving and I would do the shunting (I hope that makes sense) lol...many thanks

[C126]

Thank you for your reply.  As it all happened forty years ago, it might be difficult to remember, but if you could describe 'a typical day' for you at work, this would be of help.  E.g., did you take the 'hopper' wagons (is this what you called them?) full of new cement up to the exchange siding by the railway line every day (Monday-Friday)?  Is it true the little diesel could pull only five loaded wagons at a time 'up the hill'?  What time of day did the B.R. goods train call to swap wagons?  Can you remember how many hopper wagons of cement were taken away each day?  Was any of it 'bagged' in vans instead of the hoppers?

 

Sorry for all the questions.  Please do not worry if you can not remember all the answers.  I bet it was fun trundling up and down the slope on the diesel; I wish I had seen it in use.  Thanks for any memories you are happy to share.  With best wishes.

[number6]

Look forward to hearing anything about working the line. 

 

And to get us in the mood here is one of a number of watercolours my Grandfather did of the works - they lived in South Street in Lewes. 

 

Deleted a second image - already in the thread!

Edited April 1, 2021 by number6

[STONECOLDSMILE1882]

Hi All. Absolutely love this subject. If anyone is interested and it hasn’t already been mentioned the diesel shunter was preserved and it was and still might be on the Spa Valley Railway.....

[STONECOLDSMILE1882]

On 26/03/2020 at 19:03, number6 said:

Ford Vans - what wagons would they have been - also Presflos? or something else?

I used to watch the loaded down trains go past Hamsey AHBC (48 M 12 Ch) in the early evening as I recall. I have a feeling that the wagons were ex Motorail, car flats....but I could be wrong, it was a long time ago. But it was quite funny to watch a line of Transit vans heading down Hamsey bank behind what was then a comparatively low line side vegetation level. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by STONECOLDSMILE1882

[number6]

I have that train of Ford vans in my to do pile. 

[C126]

At the risk of turning this into another 'I remember when...' thread, I am pretty sure there were ex-Motorail car-flats parked at Newhaven Harbour station regularly when we went to the beach (Tide Mills, and then the east beach with some sand).  I have been trying to find a picture of the blue and grey 'Toe'(?) T.I.R. artic lorries that were ten a penny round there then as well.  Does anyone know of any, please?  The semi-trailers had a dark blue '5-plank' side and large canvas cover, with "toe" and a long blue arrow on the side.  I hope I have remembered this correctly!  I would love to see a picture of one.

[C126]

I had a sudden thought this morning that it would have been wonderful if the replacement industrial estate had retained a rail connection, and dispensed light industrial goods in VDAs, etc.  An idea for another 'what if' layout, if only I had thought of it years ago...

[acg5324]

On 02/04/2021 at 09:50, C126 said:

At the risk of turning this into another 'I remember when...' thread, I am pretty sure there were ex-Motorail car-flats parked at Newhaven Harbour station regularly when we went to the beach (Tide Mills, and then the east beach with some sand).  I have been trying to find a picture of the blue and grey 'Toe'(?) T.I.R. artic lorries that were ten a penny round there then as well.  Does anyone know of any, please?  The semi-trailers had a dark blue '5-plank' side and large canvas cover, with "toe" and a long blue arrow on the side.  I hope I have remembered this correctly!  I would love to see a picture of one.

Found a model truck......

https://nationale20.skyrock.com/photo.html?id_article=2722641238&id_article_media=-1

 

 

and this might be useful

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=159943

 

and here

http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=39622&start=120

Edited April 4, 2021 by acg5324