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I am new to modelling and I have never visited the UK as a US citizen, and am not aware on how the signalling is done across the pond. I would appreciate any information on the placement of signals, and any other information you might have, (tips on point rodding is also helpful)

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1 hour ago, ForeverAutumn said:

I am new to modelling and I have never visited the UK as a US citizen, and am not aware on how the signalling is done across the pond. I would appreciate any information on the placement of signals, and any other information you might have, (tips on point rodding is also helpful)

How long is a piece of string? What period/location are you enquiring about, there are many changes over the decades and many operators had different designs. 

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As Kevin says, we would need a lot more information about the location, the era, etc.

 

Useful if you can post a track plan of the layout as well as some understanding as to what would be offscene.

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As the others have mentioned, British railway signalling and its rules have evolved throughout its most fascinating history and the chosen location and era of a model should reflect this.

 

In the meantime, you could take a look at the following sites:

https://www.signalbox.org

http://www.railsigns.uk/home.html

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Right my apologies I didn't think about the details, the era is late big 4, LMS, as for a layout design I don't really have much of a design apart from a couple poor hand drawn one.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, ForeverAutumn said:

As for location it is a fictitious branchline

Single or double track approach? Through station or terminus?

Edited by kevinlms

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Single or double track?

It is a Single track, the station I am doing now is the terminus, but I will be doing the through stations, and a junction, I am mainly concerned with the terminus at the moment

Edited by ForeverAutumn

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Posted (edited)

Although this is not LMS, to give you a feel for UK semaphore signalling, I suggest you look through this thread:

 

There are a number of serving and retired professional railwaymen frequenting RMWeb who will eventually pick up on  this thread and guide you accordingly.

 

Now we know it's LMS, a proposed track plan would be useful, but be prepared to change it slightly if required.

 

Edited by Happy Hippo
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Posted (edited)

All designs of the station I have made are hand drawn and I am not very good with design, I would need a software that could help with the design, however I have made a design in templot which I will send when I can access my computer, other people have designed and modelled this station before I just wanted to make my own take on it 

Edited by ForeverAutumn

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It would also help to know which of the companies that went to make up the LMS you are modelling LNWR, MR NSR L&Y etc? Being a single line branch terminus it could be the pregrouping company's signals and their way of doing it that you need.

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2 hours ago, ForeverAutumn said:

It is a Single track, the station I am doing now is the terminus, but I will be doing the through stations, and a junction, I am mainly concerned with the terminus at the moment

 

Yes, let's take it one station (and one signal box) at a time. If the other stations are to form part of the same layout, it may help to have a schematic of the system.

 

As Jonathan says above, a branch terminus might well be equipped with pre-group signals into BR days. See the pics of Woodhead c1950 posted here recently - and that was an important main line. Having different styles of signals across the whole layout will add to interest.

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2 hours ago, ForeverAutumn said:

Right my apologies I didn't think about the details, the era is late big 4, LMS, as for a layout design I don't really have much of a design apart from a couple poor hand drawn one.

 

Hand-drawn is fine for this purpose, so long as you can scan it to your computer.

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Buy a school geometry set, compass, dividers, ruler, set square, and portractor, along with a variety of soft, HB, and hard pencils and an A4 pad.  Working a scale of 1” to the foot, and predetermining minimum centres for parallel track (done for you if you are using set track), you can draw up your plans with a deal more freedom than the computer aids allow, and you don’t have to have the laptop with you; as Joseph says you can scan it  when you are satisfied with it. 
 

Try to get hold of ‘60 plans for small railways’ by Cyril Freezer, Peco Publications.  Even if nothing in it suits your purpose it’ll give you a feel for British steam age track laying practice, which is fundamentally quite different to US.  We used tank locos on branch lines to a much greater extent, so many branches had no loco turning facilities, and while triangles are used for turning stock here they are usually triangular junctions rather than terminus loco/train turning facilities. 
 

We also had a mortal dread of facing turnouts, which you will notice from Cyril’s book. UK signalling is very complex, but conforms to a set of basic rules; don’t be overwhelmed, it’ll make sense after a while. 

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10 hours ago, Rowsley17D said:

It would also help to know which of the companies that went to make up the LMS you are modelling LNWR, MR NSR L&Y etc? Being a single line branch terminus it could be the pregrouping company's signals and their way of doing it that you need.

I believe it was Furness Railway and nearby ones as well

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19 minutes ago, ForeverAutumn said:

I believe it was Furness Railway and nearby ones as well

 

That seems like a confused answer.

 

You seem to have a specific branch in mind (I have noted where you have put down as a "location" for you). If on the mainland and a real place, we can probably find the signalling details.

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Right, ive found the design I made in templot, Its only slightly outdated, but it should help the light gray square represents a goods shed, the darker blue ones are the station, and goods station, the brown square are coal staithes, the lighter blue is a carriage shed and the black square is an engine shed. The line on the top continues to the right and goes to a stone quarry, the sidings on said line will probably provide for a stonecutter.

received_2700666843488061.png

Edited by ForeverAutumn

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That seems a rather unlikely situation. A very large engine shed and carriage shed (?) for a small station. And what is the second small dark blue platform? You indicate "goods station" but it is not adjacent to the goods shed. And then kick-back sidings to what?

 

But those caveats don't relate to signalling which would be very simple in such a situation: a home with small bracket for trains going towards the sheds; a starter from the platform and a starter or ground disc out from the yard. The signal box (small black square?) would need to be further left so that the signalman can give/take tokens to freight trains as well as passenger trains.

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What size are the squares (i.e. how much space have you got?)? What sort of trains do you want to run?

 

I think that some of us here could show you ways of making better use of that space.

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19 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

What size are the squares (i.e. how much space have you got?)? What sort of trains do you want to run?

 

I think that some of us here could show you ways of making better use of that space.

For space I have a basement that is 24x40 ft (7.3x12.1m) (excluding stairs and walls), the grid squares represent 150mm I believe, (the metric system is uncharted territory for me) the trains, are stopping passengers and goods from the stone quarry, the signal box I neglected to add to the plan, is meant to be left of the goods shed facing the track the leads into the yard, the two goods sheds, are meant to be operated by different companies, (one for public transport (on the left), the other for private companies (on the right). The run around in the sidings are for stone trains which come in from the front then run around, the engine shed should be no more than 6 inches (152.4mm)

Edited by ForeverAutumn

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2 minutes ago, ForeverAutumn said:

For space I have a basement that is 24x48, the grid squares represent 150mm I believe, (the metric system is uncharted territory for me) the trains, are stopping passengers and goods from the stone quarry, the signal box I neglected to add to the plan, is meant to be left of the goods shed facing the track the leads into the yard, the two goods sheds, are meant to be operated by different companies, (one for public transport (on the left), the other for private companies (on the right). The run around in the sidings are for stone trains which come in from the front then run around, the engine shed should be no more than 6 inches (152.4mm)

 

OK, I forgot that this is just the first part of the empire. But let's say from that drawing that this station and quarry sidings is in a space about 16' x 3'.

 

A carriage shed of more than one road seems unlikely in this context. Is the loco shed for main line company engines or (more probable) quarry company locos?

 

A more probable arrangement would be some interchange sidings off the LMS branch and then access to the quarry complex. The goods shed can be fitted in various locations.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

OK, I forgot that this is just the first part of the empire. But let's say from that drawing that this station and quarry sidings is in a space about 16' x 3'.

 

A carriage shed of more than one road seems unlikely in this context. Is the loco shed for main line company engines or (more probable) quarry company locos?

 

A more probable arrangement would be some interchange sidings off the LMS branch and then access to the quarry complex. The goods shed can be fitted in various locations.

 

 

Yes sheds are for quarry locos as well, the carriage shed fits two suburban coaches, as well as coaches for quarrymen, 

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It would be separate sheds (or more likely no loco shed or carriage shed for the LMS). And where are these quarrymen's trains going? Not along the main branch. We need to add another line, disappearing off-scene to the quarries themselves.

 

Two locations occur to me that you could work from as a basis: Wirksworth (ex-Midland) and Coniston (ex-Furness).

 

Penygraig is another possibility. Coal in reality but the rail layout equally viable for stone.

 

 

Edited by Joseph_Pestell
ADD

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Do you have access to both sides of the station as it's a bit too wide to reach over from one side?

 

Being GWR orientated I'm no expert on Furness Railway signalling, but by the late LMS era they could well have been replaced by the standard LMS upper quadrant. Contrary to American practice, a home or starter means stop. (I understand that it can be passed at slow speed on sme roads at least.)

 

It's unlikely likely that the shed would serve both quarry locos (presumably owned by the quarry company) and LMS locomotives. (Ignore this, of course, if the quarry locomotives are LMS stock.)

 

Four feet is rather generous for a pair of coaches, even if it includes a third strengthener for market day.

Edited by Il Grifone

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