Dublo Diecast

[Robin Brasher]

I am pleased to see that Hornby is producing a range of vehicles similar to the original Dublo Dinky Toys models produced in the late 1950s and early 1960s.  The only Dublo Diecast model that was in the original range is the Volkswagen T2 van. The Beetle was T1 and the van was t2 and was made from 1950 to 1967. The no 071 Dublo Dinky Toys model was the 11th in the range and came out in February 1960. An advert said it was to provide realism and action that could mean so much to the successful running of an 00 gauge model railway. The price was 2s and it was 2 1/8" long. It was the only Dinky toy to advertise Hornby Dublo railways and it was one of the few not to have an illustration of the model on the box. Dublo Dinky Toys were in both the Hornby Dublo and Dinky Toys catalogues.

[Robin Brasher]

From the picture in possibly a 1962 Dinky Toys catalogue you can see that most of the Dublo Dinky Toys models are not in the Dublo Diecast range although the R7247 Fordson tractor does look a bit like the 069m Massey Harris Ferguson tractor in the Dublo Dinky range and the R4721 MG TC looks a bit like the 062 Singer Roadster in the Dublo Dinky Range. The Singer had been deleted by 1962.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Of course, the vehicles available from Oxford Diecast have influenced the Dublo Diecast offerings.

 

The name"Dinky" it seems is not available for use on the new range...

 

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Sarahagain
typo

[Robin Brasher]

If Hornby wanted to extend the range they could include the Land Rover and some models based on the Dinky Toy range  but in 1/76 scalelike the caravan, D Type Jaguar, E Type jaguar, Ford Capri, Austin Somerset, Field Marshall Tractor and Trailer.

[Steamport Southport]

Didn't one of the magazine partworks just do a Dinky collection?

 

Obviously not the Dublo range but it seems that Mattel owns the copyright to Dinky.

 

© 2017 Mattel, Inc. All rights reserved.

 

https://www.deagostini.com/uk/collections/dinky-toys-collection/

 

 

 

 

Jason

[BernardTPM]

It went to Mattel via Matchbox International.

Edited March 29, 2020 by BernardTPM

[Robin Brasher]

Some of my Dublo Dinky toys with dates of manufacture. 064 Austin Lorry 1957-62, 065 Morris Pick-Up 1957-60 probably based on Morris Cowley which was the pick up version of the Morris Oxford in the Dinky Toys range, 066 Bedford Flat Truck 1959-66, 071 VW Delivery Van 1960 - 64,  072 Bedford Articulated Truck with windows 1959-64, 073 Land Rover with windows and trailer 1960 - 64.

 

According to the February 1961 Model Railway Constructor the 073 Land Rover was based on the series 2 model while the horse trailer was manufactured by Smiths Corporation, model CT86. The Land Rover and trailer had excellent play value with the Hornby Dublo Mk1 Horse Box although I think that the horses supplied with each model were different.

 

The Bedford trucks were also fun to play with as they could carry the wooden container bodies from Hornby Dublo wagons.

 

For further reading please see page 159 of Ramsays 12th edition British Toys catalogue and page 271 of Hornby Dublo trains by Michael Foster.

[Il Grifone]

I gather the horses are the same, but differ in shade of brown. The horse is now worth more than the vehicles. Replicas are available in black, brown, tan, and white.

 

http://www.model-supplies.co.uk/hornby_dublo_repro_figures.htm

 

(Usual disclaimer - I believe they are available elsewhere.)

 

I still need the P.O. van and the platform tractor and trailer. I'm not worried about the wheel variations!

[Robin Brasher]

I have got a confession to make about the Post Office Van.  I bought a Dublo Dinky model for about £30 before Oxford started producing their 1/76 scale models. Unfortunately I have mislaid it and have been searching for it and some other Dinky toys during the lockdown for the last two weeks without success.

 

The Dublo Dinky Royal Mail van came out at about the same time as the two rail Hornby Dublo Royal Mail coach so they had excellent play value together.

 

Oxford produced a Morris Minor Royal Mail Van which was number 76MM015 in the Oxford Commercial series. It is now in plain sandy beige livery or in yellow Post Office Telephones yellow with a ladder but Hornby could reintroduce it in Post Office red in their Dublo Diecast range. 

 

The pictures show the Oxford Royal Mail van and the Hornby Dublo TPO.  If I ever find my Dublo Dinky Royal Mail Van I will post a picture of it but it is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

 

 

 

[Metr0Land]

As well as the Dinky Toys name, some Dinky models were made under license in India as Nicky Toys for a while

 

http://dtcawebsite.com/node/4728

[railroadbill]

I thought I had a 062 sports car (Singer roadster)  but it turned out to be a Matchbox MG TC when I looked closely....

 

 

Illustration from the 1959 edition Hornby Dublo Book of Trains, with the road vehicles shown.  The station staff figures were very good imho, still got the porter carrying suitcases.

 

In the December 1958 price list, 061-065 are shown as 1s 9p and the Bedford flat truck (066) is 2/-

 

The Book of Trains was 1s 6p.

 

 

[railroadbill]

To add a little to the interesting discussion about what happened to the Dinky toys name.  In "Dinky Toys" by David Cooke the chronology is stated as:

 

Lines brothers  went into liquidation in 1971 and Meccano Ltd. was bought by Airfix.

UK production ceased in 1979 but some models still made in Hong Kong.

Airfix failed and the Dinky Toys name was bought by Kenner Parker Toys inc. in 1985.

 

In 1987 the Dinky Toys trade name was sold to Universal International of Hong Kong. They also had the Matchbox name, as Matchbox Toys. They traded as Matchbox International Ltd.

In 1988 a new series of diecast vehicles was launched, as "The Dinky Collection". 

The 1992 catalogue shows 27 vehicles being made between 1988 and 1991.  15 vehicles are shown in the 1991 range, which are renumbered as A or B versions with different paint from the first range. (See picture below). 

 

In 1992 Tyco toys acquired Universal International and the Dinky Toys and Matchbox (then Matchbox international Ltd,) names. 

In 1996 Mattel Inc. merged with Tyco Toys. 

 

So Mattel still hold the Dinky name rights, as Steamport Southport and BernardTPM explained above. 

I think I've seen small die cast toys sold on cards in places like Tescos (nothing like the old ones)  with the Matchbox name so presumably they are Mattel.

 

1992 catalogue.

 

 

DY-9, Series 1 88" Landrover   and  DY-3, MGB GT.  They are both shown as  "copyright 1989 Matchbox International Ltd."  under the boxes.  Made in Macau.  Actually well detailed models.  (The MG has a C plate so must be a 1965 car!)

 

I expect there will be more to this story, but interesting to look back at past ranges, which is what Hornby are doing with their new Dublo diecast range.

 

[Robin Brasher]

Thank you for updating the history of Dinky Toys.  There were some coaches and a bus in the main range which were to 1/76 scale. One of these was number 282 Duple Roadmaster coach which was issued in several colours including blue and maroon.  Oxford are now making the Duple Roadmaster coach in their Oxford Omnibus range so perhaps Hornby could include one in Hornby's Dublo Diecast range.

[railroadbill]

Thanks Robin,  think I had a Duple roadmaster once, in that blue livery. Also an AEC double decker which must have been one of the 1:76th scale ones. Think that was a popular model.  Mine are long gone.

Good bit of reminiscence here!

[Il Grifone]

Oxford's Duple Roadmaster looks rather more like the original than Dinky version.

 

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk01TTdlpzWBZPsT7QEXUyyBWBDIuuQ:1586538974050&q=duple+roadmaster&tbm=isch&source=univ&client=firefox-b-d&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi4ueGfrt7oAhXKyKYKHcQ7AYwQsAR6BAgKEAE&biw=1297&bih=666

 

There were several 4mm scale* Dinky buses and coaches. The latter were all rather obscure prototypes.

29b         Streamlined Bus (It appears this was only a prototype in real life.

                    Like the Matchbox M1 BP Tanker

29c/290  Double Deck Bus (2 versions of AEC and a Leyland)

                    Pre-war ones have stairs (and usually zincpest)

29e          Single Deck Bus (often described as a coach)

29f/280   Observation Coach

29g/281  Luxury Coach

29h/282 Duple Roadmaster Coach

283         B.O.A.C. Coach Bus

289*       Routemaster

291         London Bus (290 in red)

292*       Atlantean Bus

 

* Meccano Ltd stated 5/32" to the foot (also initially for Dublo)

289 and 292 are slightly larger in scale.

 

https://www.toymart.com/search_2015.php

 

Matchbox (like Dinky and Corgi) are 'box scale' but a fair number are near to 4mm scale.

AFAIK the only Dinky to 0 scale is 752 the Goods Yard Crane, but some are near.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Robin Brasher]

Thank you for the information about Dinky Toys buses.  I think that Hornby could make a good reproduction of the Dinky Toys 290 and 291 buses using the Oxford 76PD2 Leyland bus as a base. 

 

By 1962 Dinky Toys were making no 290 double deck bus in red and cream livery with a Dunlop advertisement and a number 291 London bus with an Exide Batteries advertisement which both cost 4s 6d which was more expensive than most model cars.

 

The 290 double deck bus was also available in green and cream livery as shown in my model of a Leyland version. Dinky Toys had also painted it in several colours with a cream top. It was fun to repaint these buses and the red bus is an AEC version in Brighton and Hove livery.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Robin Brasher

[BernardTPM]

The 292 Atlantean isn't overscale then - 120mm = 30 foot which is correct for that first generation rear engine bus.

[The Johnster]

Nice trip down memory lane; I 'ad sum of'em.  I had the Bedford dropside lorry, the Leyland bus in green/cream which I accepted as close enough for jazz to Newport, the blue Duple coach (this is a coach not a single decker bus, because it has stowage beneath the passenger compartment) and a BOAC airport bus.  Most of my layout vehicles were Matchbox.  I thought the Dinky Dublo stuff was a bit crude at at time when Corgi were producing models with windows and interiors, even suspension, but they were not far off scale for 00, which was as much as you could hope for back then.  I used to be frustrated that I couldn't get inside them to put at least windows in, I think seating might have been beyond me but I'd have had a go in folded card.

 

I did a bit of repainting of some of my cars in Humbrol enamals, not to any great success, but painting over the shiny metal axle ends was a small improvement.  I had the blue camper as well, but this was in the larger Dinky scale.

[Beechnut]

On 10/04/2020 at 12:43, railroadbill said:

 

 

DY-9, Series 1 88" Landrover   and  DY-3, MGB GT.  They are both shown as  "copyright 1989 Matchbox International Ltd."  under the boxes.  Made in Macau.  Actually well detailed models.  (The MG has a C plate so must be a 1965 car!)

 

I expect there will be more to this story, but interesting to look back at past ranges, which is what Hornby are doing with their new Dublo diecast range.

 

The series one Land Rover is 80” wheelbase. They later went to 86” with 88” coming with series two.

 

Brendan

[Robin Brasher]

Thank you for the information about repainting Dublo Dinky Toys and about the Land 

Rover.

 

Coming back to the Leyland Atlantean it  looks like the Dinky Toys model, shown below the Corgi Southern Vectis Leyland Olympian, was 1/76 scale.

 

Unfortunately Oxford does not make a Leyland Atlantean so Hornby would not be able to include a Corporation Transport version in the Dublo Diecast range. 

 

It will be interesting to see if Hornby expands its Dublo Diecast range with imitation Dinky models in 1/76 scale.

[D9020 Nimbus]

It might be, but the Yellow Pages model isn't the same model as the Atlantean in the earlier post. The original one looks like an MCW-bodied one, not sure what the later one is supposed to be.

[Tiptonian]

The Yellow Pages bus is a good representation of a Northern Counties body, but going by the engine cover detail, it is a Daimler Fleetline, not a Leyland Atlantean.

[Robin Brasher]

The chassis of the Yellow Pages model says it is an Atlantean Bus. I think it was number 295 produced between 1973 and 1976 but it is a different model to the number 292 Corporation Transport model produced from 1962-65. The Yellow Pages version has two sets of doors on the near side whereas the Corporation Transport version has one set of doors by the driver. They are both the same length.

[andyman7]

 

On 26/03/2020 at 17:33, Steamport Southport said:

Obviously not the Dublo range but it seems that Mattel owns the copyright to Dinky.

 

© 2017 Mattel, Inc. All rights reserved.

 

 

On 26/03/2020 at 18:22, BernardTPM said:

It went to Mattel via Matchbox International.

The DInky Toys name was a trademark of Meccano Ltd, which passed to Triang in 1964 when they acquired Meccano. When the Triang group was broken up in 1971, the French part went to CPG Products Corp, a subsidiary of US conglomerate General Mills; whilst the British part was bought by the Airfix group. Between 1971 and 1981 both parties entered intop terriotorial licensing agreements to allow for the relevant export and sale of products.

Airfix closed Meccano down in 1979 but retained use of the Dinky name until they themselves went into recievership in 1981, to be bought by CPG thus reuniting both parts of the old Meccano empire. However, with massive changed in the toy business, CPG ceased to manufacture Dinky Toys and as a result in 1986 the trademark was essentially appropriated by Universal Toys Ltd who were the then owners of Matchbox. CPG settled out of court effectively having weakened any claim to the name through non-use.

Universal sold Matchbox (and the Dinky brand) to Tyco in 1992. In 1997 Mattel acquired Tyco and deleted the Matchbox Dinky range, but having learned the lesson of the CPG experience, they have been very careful to make periodic  use of the Dinky trademark, most recently by licensing Atlas Editions/DeAgostini to issue the various Dinky collection resissues since around 2013. It is therefore not available to Hornby Hobbies. Hornby's reuse of the Triang name for a couple of this year's anniversary models has no doubt  been helped due to the complete lapse of any other use of the trademark by other parties. 

 

On 07/04/2020 at 15:10, Metr0Land said:

As well as the Dinky Toys name, some Dinky models were made under license in India as Nicky Toys for a while

 

http://dtcawebsite.com/node/4728

Atamco Pty Ltd Calcutta purchased a number of redundant dies from Meccano but they did not license the name. The very first reissues were branded Dinky Toys but Meccano required them to change the name hence 'Nicky Toys'. They were never licensed by Meccano, it was a purchase of redundant assets.

[laurenceb]

3 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

The chassis of the Yellow Pages model says it is an Atlantean Bus. I think it was number 295 produced between 1973 and 1976 but it is a different model to the number 292 Corporation Transport model produced from 1962-65. The Yellow Pages version has two sets of doors on the near side whereas the Corporation Transport version has one set of doors by the driver. They are both the same length.

No matter what it says on the base the egine cowl is a Fleetline. Somewear I read that the prototype was a bus delivered to Cleveland Transit