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When and how did BR decide to stop building corridor coaches?


montyburns56
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already but another aspect in favour of open carriages is they are quicker and easier to clean. Something that would have made them cheaper to operate in the long term.

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It was the 1984 Morpeth sleeper train accident where corridor coaches caused access problems for the fire services.  The official report on the accident stated:

 

"In designing future sleeping-car stock, easier access for firemen should be provided in the event of a car overturning corridor-side uppermost. Corridor windows should be placed opposite to the pairs of doors."

 

I assume he meant pairs of doors referred to the doors of adjacent sleeping compartments, presumably so they wouldn't have to crawl along the corridor from the corridor window to get to the cabin doors.

 

Does anyone know if this recommendation has been incorporated into the new Mk5 corridor sleepers?

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6 hours ago, 47513 said:

DRS had a Mk2 BFK that found its way into the Greater Anglia class 37 operated ‘short set’ a couple of years ago. Unfortunately the compartment end was locked out of use, something to do with platform lengths at some of the stations I believe. 
 

I don’t know if they still have the vehicle now. 
 

I generally travel alone and I don’t like compartments unless I can get one to myself. Even in first class that would make for very inefficient use of space. Far better to have an open coach with a mix of ‘seating unit’ sizes ie. four around a table, one/two in airline seats etc. 

 

On the Bluebell it has been noted that family or groups of friends tend to perceive each compartment as 'theirs' which can cause issues at busy times. I doubt the mainline was any different.

 

Many times in the past I have had to deal with 'there is no space' complaints from passengers, when actually there IS space - they just have to share. Equally the look I sometimes got when adding people to an already occupied compartment spoke volumes.

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6 hours ago, Right Away said:

Not actualy pertaining to the corridor coach itself, but the operation of EPB stock on the Southern Region underwent some changes, IIRC during the '80s.

Essentially, stock were rearranged whereby the compartment only vehicles where exchanged between units, the idea to form trains with all-open seating for the safety and security of passengers.

The units which retained the compartment vehicles were then supposed to be restricted in use and not operate beyond 8pm.

 

The compartments of corridor coaches were obviously not so isolating for the occupants as those of non-corridor stock, allowing movement within vehicle and train should the need arise (avoiding obnoxious or threatening persons) but the all-open vehicle had won the day in this respect.

IIRC, this was introduced after a young lady was raped and murdered in a Southern Region emu compartment, and her body thrown out onto the track.  It was a similar incident in the previous century that led to the adoption of the communication cord.

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The GBP was very slow to accept "open" coaches - they were for many years regarded as "American" and therefore a Bad Thing.

 

I suspect, traditionally, people liked the "privacy" of a compartment, but then society changed and it began to feel safer and more comfortable in "open" stock.

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1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

IIRC, this was introduced after a young lady was raped and murdered in a Southern Region emu compartment, and her body thrown out onto the track.  

 

Yup.

 

And the Rapist + Murder has NEVER been found IIRC....

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Last May Mrs R and I went to Hamburg by train. We were very surprised to find that our booked seats on the Cologne - Hamburg leg (and return) were in a compartment. Though we had both travelled in compartment stock in the sixties and seventies in the UK it felt rather strange so many years on.  

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9 hours ago, 47513 said:

DRS had a Mk2 BFK that found its way into the Greater Anglia class 37 operated ‘short set’ a couple of years ago. Unfortunately the compartment end was locked out of use, something to do with platform lengths at some of the stations I believe. 
 

I don’t know if they still have the vehicle now. 
 

I generally travel alone and I don’t like compartments unless I can get one to myself. Even in first class that would make for very inefficient use of space. Far better to have an open coach with a mix of ‘seating unit’ sizes ie. four around a table, one/two in airline seats etc. 

 

GA didn't like it for some reason,  nothing to do with platform lengths,  I brought it down and I remember climbing up to put the handbrake on and been shocked to find it was a BFK I assumed it was a BSO.

It's now with LSL 

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First class compartments are very common on German loco hauled Intercity trains. If a train only has one first class carriage it will be a compartment one, any additional first class cars might be open but often aren’t. 
 

The latest refurbishment has started fitting six ICE style single seats into the compartments. I much preferred the original bench style, ideal for stretching out on an empty train. 

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On 27/03/2020 at 19:00, andyman7 said:

CIGs and VEPs each had one standard class compartment per driving coach following declassification of part of the 1st class. So until 2005 it was still possible to use a compartment even in standard class if you knew where to go.

 

There were also the refurbished CEPs which retained a lone standard class compartment tucked away at one end of the TBCK (rebuilt from the former TCK). Most passengers didn't seem to notice it, or perhaps assumed it was first class, so it was quite often possible to travel in glorious isolation on less busy trains.

 

Edited by 602Squadron
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2 hours ago, Poggy1165 said:

The GBP was very slow to accept "open" coaches - they were for many years regarded as "American" and therefore a Bad Thing.

 

I suspect, traditionally, people liked the "privacy" of a compartment, but then society changed and it began to feel safer and more comfortable in "open" stock.

 

Although of course that privacy was only maintained as long as no-one else entered the compartment. I probably shouldn't mention the things we did as teenage trainspotters to prevent that from happening......

 

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4 hours ago, Poggy1165 said:

The GBP was very slow to accept "open" coaches - they were for many years regarded as "American" and therefore a Bad Thing.

 

I suspect, traditionally, people liked the "privacy" of a compartment, but then society changed and it began to feel safer and more comfortable in "open" stock.

I think it was rather that it began to feel more dangerous in compartments.

 

6 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

On the Bluebell it has been noted that family or groups of friends tend to perceive each compartment as 'theirs' which can cause issues at busy times. I doubt the mainline was any different.

It wasn't.

 

4 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Yup.

 

And the Rapist + Murder has NEVER been found IIRC....

AFAIK neither has the Victorian one. 

 

4 hours ago, Neil said:

Last May Mrs R and I went to Hamburg by train. We were very surprised to find that our booked seats on the Cologne - Hamburg leg (and return) were in a compartment. Though we had both travelled in compartment stock in the sixties and seventies in the UK it felt rather strange so many years on.  

 

3 hours ago, Sheffield said:

I went from Germany to Poland last September, first class, in a  compartment carriage. As far as I could make out most if not all the trains on the route were a similar arrangement.

I believe compartments are still common on first class stock in Germany and in what we used to call Eastern Europe, though really it should be Central Europe.  Further east, in Russia and China, most stock on long haul trains is compartment.  Mulitple unit stock seems to be more likely to be open, as it was here though the Swindon 4-car Inter City sets had compartment stock as did the similar Clacton electrics.  Southern Region featured compartments on all their gangwayed mk1 based emus.

 

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

 

Although of course that privacy was only maintained as long as no-one else entered the compartment. I probably shouldn't mention the things we did as teenage trainspotters to prevent that from happening......

 

No, you definitely shouldn't...

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1 hour ago, caradoc said:

 

Although of course that privacy was only maintained as long as no-one else entered the compartment. I probably shouldn't mention the things we did as teenage trainspotters to prevent that from happening......

 

 

Pulling the blinds down was the easiest one. The sitting there with your foot wedging the door handle.

 

Allegedly..................

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20 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Another distinguishing feature was the staggered corridor.

Quite odd walking down one and finding that the corridor finished halfway and then crossed over to the other side........

I think the last regular use of XP64 stock was in the Glasgow/Edinburgh-Bristol overnight services. (A favourite service when I was doing all-line rover tickets in the late 70s.) Pretty certain I travelled in one of the FKs downgraded to second in it's last year or so.

 

One of the XP64 TSOs turned up in the Sunday evening Newcastle-Bristol I regularly travelled on during winter 1979/80, unusual as it was normally formed of compartment stock.

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10 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Pulling the blinds down was the easiest one. The sitting there with your foot wedging the door handle.

 

Allegedly..................

Did similar with a lift once. At training school there was a large lift, which held about 50 people. For some strange reason the door was at one end of the long side. We were coming from the top floor of 3 about a dozen of us. When we got to the first floor (art students), we were all squashed up around the door, so giving the impression of being packed, so the students couldn't get in.

As the door closed, a voice came from outside 'Hey, they're all squashed up around the door'! Too late, we were gone.

 

It wasn't long after, that students were banned from using the lift and everyone had to use the stairs.

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I recall being in the 6th Form at school in the 1960s.  A group of my colleagues decided to go on a short 'educational' vacation in France.  The cheapest civilised way of making the trip was train-ferry-train.  When they got of the ferry in...whichever Channel Port it was for the least expensive fare ...they were delighted to find that the SNCF had provided a train with compartments.  One of the group was very good at clearing compartments, pub tables etc. by gurning, gibbering and putting on an act as a moderately terrifying lunatic.  He stayed on board the train to 'protect' their compartment whilst the others went off in search of drinks, newspapers etc for the journey to Paris.

A few seconds after they left two nuns came along the corridor looking for seats.  they looked into my friends compartment, causing our actor friend to start his 'Full Loonie' Act.  Unfortunately the nuns must have come from a nursing Order, for with cries of "Ah ce pauvre!" and whimpers of sympathy they bounded into the compartment.  By the time the rest of the party returned our 'Faux Loonie' was having his forehead wiped, the slobber removed from his lips and he was being plied with holy medals, rosaries etc.  His friends did not intervene and he had to keep the act up all the way to Paris....

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This may be a nice part of French culture.  In 1966 a family camping/touring holiday took us over the Simplon Pass, and the number of coaches and HGVs using the steep climb out of Brig kept traffic slow; our Riley 2.6 didn't like it an overheated about half way up.  Father pulled over, to mother's dismay on the edge of a fairly precipitous declivity, lifted the bonnet, and to shouts of discouragement from mother and myself proceeded to remove the radiator cap.  You know what happened next, and he scalded himself a little.

 

The rad cap disappeared over the edge and I had to climb down about 20 feet to retrieve it, a scramble rather than proper mountaineering but I took great care, not wanting to fall off an alp.  By the time I'd got back, about 10 minutes, a French family in a Renault Dauphine had stopped to help (their car was a bit warm as well, being air cooled), and the teenage daughter (who was, well, French, not to mention blonde, and proper stunning, and dressed for a summer holiday, shorts and skimpy bikini top) was bandaging dad's scalded wrist rather tenderly and with much 'oh, le pauvre monsuier, la, la!', and wiping of fevered brows as she leaned over him to attend to the injury.  Father significantly failed to object to this treatment to mother's satisfaction, and the rest of the day was a little, um, fraught!

 

19 hours ago, mcbearuk said:

His friends did not intervene

What friends?  My spotting companions would have done exactly the same, probably debunking to another compartment.

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On 27/03/2020 at 16:39, Wickham Green too said:

Ah, but there was an economy when the MkIIIs came along : you could squeeze the lower classes into a First Class bodyshell - and hope they didn't complain to loudly when they got a view of a window pillar !

 

Or there's an even similar option - do as CIÉ did and use the Standard class interior for First as well and only finally change it after the business clientele complains! ;)

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