Clapping for Carers

[AY Mod]

Quote

 

48 minutes ago, Bon Accord said:

John never suggested that everyone was clapping for the wrongs reason,

 

Really? 

 

Quote

 

10 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I just find the whole clapping thing to be empty virtue signalling

 

 

To me that lumped every participant together in a derogatory fashion which is what made me very, very angry. 

 

[alastairq]

36 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

I just find the whole clapping thing to be empty virtue signalling

I interpret the above purely as an expression of view.

Given that our society, and this epidemic, have been dominated by social media, and all that it represents, I'm inclined to agree with that sentiment.

The only fact involved, is the fact of my agreement. 

If my views ( since I have obviously made them known?), are offensive to some., so be it! 

One thing I am certain of, is, taking offence at someone else's views works both ways.

 

[Colin_McLeod]

[Classsix T]

Whilst I can see Andy's point of view I do think perhaps he could have reminded jjb in the first instance that this thread in particular was started as an appreciation of an action and should he (and others) disagree with it then there are options to ignore it. Including a honking geet button specifically for that purpose. 

 

I've held similar views to jjb on this and other publicly widely accepted movements, but in the knowledge that my view would be seen as insensitive and inflammatory by most I obviously keep them to myself, I certainly don't go looking for threads on model railway forums to deliberately be contrary. 

 

I'll miss jjb, one of the more interesting RMweb members imo, but depending on the sentiment of the subject it's sometimes worth remembering if you've nothing nice to say, you're probably best off not saying it.

 

C6T. 

[rob D2]

8 hours ago, alastairq said:

“ I find the whole clapping thing to be empty virtue signalling “

That’s what JJB said not what Andy said, a slight button press issue I guess .

Edited May 26, 2020 by rob D2
Finger trouble

[alastairq]

 

Sorry Rob, you misunderstand me.....I took the quote from Andy's post, wishing to make reference to the remark being referred to.

 

Mind, I tried to use the quote facitty from your own post, and just got several versions of what you were quoting....

[Torper]

Well, that's very sad if we've lost jjb1970.

 

DT

[HonestTom]

For me personally, as an NHS worker, my opinion on the whole thing is this.

 

Firstly, I do appreciate the support. While yes, I agree that PPE, better pay etc would be nice, that's not exactly in the wheelhouse of your average person, at least until election time. But my issues with it are this.

 

1.  Before the pandemic, I suffered more than my fair share of abuse at the hands of the public while trying to juggle the lack of resources we had to work with. There have been times when I've been on the verge of quitting after trying to go above and beyond to help a person and receiving only abuse in return. Even now, I get abuse from patients. Presumably some of these horrible people are now clapping. I wonder, will they remain so appreciative when the pandemic's over and they aren't being watched by the rest of the street?

 

2. There are aspects of it that I find deeply sinister. I strongly object to the way we scatter the term "heroes" around like confetti. To be honest, it feels like love-bombing. A lot of the media coverage and political speechifying carries the strong implication that if you're not willing to be a hero (i.e. do exactly what we the establishment tell you), then you must be a villain trying to thwart the heroes. Which I frankly find pretty sick.

 

From a purely personal and slightly petulant perspective, I've lost colleagues, I haven't seen my family or friends in months and I exist in a constant state of stress. I'm kind of on edge and have been for several weeks. For me, it just serves as a reminder that this terrible situation is still going on.

[Nick C]

5 minutes ago, HonestTom said:

1.  Before the pandemic, I suffered more than my fair share of abuse at the hands of the public while trying to juggle the lack of resources we had to work with. There have been times when I've been on the verge of quitting after trying to go above and beyond to help a person and receiving only abuse in return. Even now, I get abuse from patients. Presumably some of these horrible people are now clapping. I wonder, will they remain so appreciative when the pandemic's over and they aren't being watched by the rest of the street?

 

There really is something fundamentally wrong with a society in which people abuse someone who is trying to help them 

[HonestTom]

1 minute ago, Nick C said:

 

There really is something fundamentally wrong with a society in which people abuse someone who is trying to help them 

The problem is that my position is administrative, which is something that many people just don't acknowledge as a thing that exists or is important. We're part of what we in the NHS call "the invisible workforce." Where the media and pop culture does mention us, we're inevitably cast as either lazy leeches who do nothing all day or as penny-pinching obstacles in the way of our brave healthcare staff. You'll never see an administrator shown on the front line (even though I am) or helping patients (even though that's why I'm here).

 

If I can't do something for a patient, they assume it's because I'm being bureaucratic and obstructive, not because it can't be done, because I'm having difficulty with the clinical staff or - god forbid - because the patient is being unreasonable.

[big jim]

@HonestTom reading your post above it echoes the concerns I put in my original post in this thread at the start of the clapping thing, Will people still clap when they can watch eastenders instead, will all the good feeling end when they have to wait in A+E for 6 hours to see a doctor etc

 

the but in your post that resonates most with me is what you say about the term ‘heroes’, I’m so sick of hearing and seeing the word over the last couple of months, it’s just lost all meaning to me now, and also why very early on I lost respect for the clap for heroes bandwagon, it soon after week one became a clap for everyone who was working event which is a laugh, all I know is I’m the only earner in my home, I had a booked job to do, I came into work, did the job I do every day and went home (just being that extra bit careful not to leave myself open to catching anything) nothing heroic about that at all, I’ve got to live, but now anyone can be a hero if they confront the public, what’s going to happen on the 15th when non essential shops open, are we going to have a clap for model shop heroes, clap for cash converters the list could go on!

 

the one thing that summed up the whole hero thing yesterday was while I was being sick through the combination of tilting and food poisoning on a voyager I went to the loo and the toilet seat had this sticker on it 

 

 

 

[HonestTom]

Yeah, my local Co-Op had a sign advising people that they could be local heroes if they stayed 2 metres apart, if they signed up to this charitable scheme etc etc. I found myself inwardly chuckling as I stood in the queue, thinking, "See Oskar Schindler? See me? Twins!"

[rob D2]

Yep , “ hero “ is as overused as “ legend “.

 

Not referring to NHS, but it seems in the modern version of Britain everyone’s a hero and everyone is above criticism .

[APOLLO]

Chill out folks ------ Time for some music -----

 

 

The NHS certainly earns my respect - a Quadruple by pass eight years ago and a Hernia op last year (postponed whilst I was wearing the op gown - reason no bed for o/night stay as one ward shut due to vomiting bug) - but everyone was superb. Heroes ? - perhaps not those times, but the docs, nurses and all weren't working with a rampant invisible killer virus all around together with shortages of PPE etc. 

 

So I clap with the neighbours, have a chat, a beer etc. It will fizz out one day soon - and that is fine by me.

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, big jim said:

the but in your post that resonates most with me is what you say about the term ‘heroes’,

 

It's a word that has become overused in recent times and I put that down to the use of language concentrating on just a few words for praise*.  To me the people that most deserve that accolade are those with GC or VC after their name. And yet they would never put themselves in that category.

 

Personally I respect anyone that goes above and beyond and there are plenty in these strange times that are doing that, but I wouldn't use the term heroe to describe them.

 

* - Slightly off topic but an example of this is with the American version of 'English" when asked to describe a quantity of anything (liquid/solid/area etc) the common answer is "a bunch of" 

[Neil]

Firstly I find it sad that we argue about clapping/not clapping and sad that some in society feel the need to shame those who choose not to. For something to be a genuine show of appreciation it should be freely given without fear of repercussions if one chooses not to. Here in Tywyn I've been clapping on the doorstep each Thursday and it's been cheering to hear the echoes round town as we fail to synchronise the ending. I'm sure that most is in genuine thanks for those who keep us well and safe. As I understand it this Thursday will be the last and that's probably OK, once it becomes a habit then something of the heartfelt is lost.

 

Heroes is an awkward definition. To my mind it encompasses anyone who would put themselves in harms way to help others. This certainly covers those front line staff, working without proper PPE whether it be in hospital or care home. I extend the same status to those who enable life to go while taking risks with their own well-being. As Mrs R has heart failure we're in strict lockdown here. This means that Asda deliver rations, volunteers do the same for medication, our fantastic postie other vital supplies; they take risks to keep us safe. My problem with 'hero' is that it can normalise sacrifice, suffering and death, it can dehumanise, it can be exploited as a palliative to silence disquiet. It's not easy to strike the right note, my best attempt would be heroic actions by selfless, normal people.

 

Edit: I/we owe these people a huge debt of gratitude, all we can do at the moment is to do our part is to keep ourselves safe and by doing so lessen the chances of the virus spreading. Long term I'll have it in my mind that these groups deserve respect and value, I will remember this at times when I have a chance to influence how society works.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Neil

[Phil Parker]

4 hours ago, Nick C said:

There really is something fundamentally wrong with a society in which people abuse someone who is trying to help them 

 

Years ago, I was a hospital radio volunteer. We used to go around the wards gathering requests to play that evening. Sometimes you got an entire bay talking and it felt good. More an more over time you'd just get a mouthful of abuse about the hospital or how stupid you were trying to do something. It was one of the reasons I gave it up.

[Legend]

I think you have to distinguish between folks on the front line and those that are in charge

 

For those in the front line I have no hesitation clapping showing my appreciation . I know when I go to the supermarket its with a sense of trepidation so what can it be like for NHS guys going into a Coronavirus ward day in day out . The care they are providing outstanding . Similar to folks that are looking after people in care homes , who I think have been very badly let down in this , but are still doing their best . Un reserved clapping for them . But of course clapping doesn't do much good , medium and longterm we need to remember them and make sure properly rewarded.

 

That, however is distinct from the folks that are running the show . And without getting political I'm certainly not clapping for them .   The danger is they might perceive it this way.

[Colin_McLeod]

2 hours ago, Legend said:

That, however is distinct from the folks that are running the show . And without getting political I'm certainly not clapping for them . 

 

Of course if there were no folks running the show the doctors and nurses would have to do all that work themselves on top of what they are already doing.  It's popular to think the show runs itself but it doesn't. 

[Bernard Lamb]

Thursday will be the last time for a while as per the suggestion from the originator.

I find it rather odd to be called sentimental as I am usually called some thing rather worse.

We always have some music, usually the regular tunes that are doing the rounds.

On Thursday it will be Time to Say Goodbye.

While not wanting to deprive any one of their right to free speech I do wish that those who disagree with the clapping could refrain from being rude to those who do take part.

Bernard

[Colin_McLeod]

17 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I do wish that those who disagree with the clapping could refrain from being rude to those who do take part.

 

I agree Bernard, and hopefully those that do clap will also refrain from pressurising those that don't take part.  That way every one should feel better.

 

Keep safe everyone.

[Markwj]

As an NHS worker the clap for carers is appreciated and it was lovely on a Thursday night to pop out the door and wave and speak to neighbours who otherwise may not see anyone due to self isolation. I realise it's not just nhs staff we clap but now the pressure on the NHS is reduced as covid 19 cases have reduced and lockdown measures are starting to be released  people are starting to get out I think it's time to stop. It is also galling however when your neighbours clap then go into each other's houses and share a barbecue or something ignoring the rules.

 

I can only speak for me but as an NHS worker I appreciate all the support I have been given over the last 10 weeks and thank everyone who has clapped and said hello in the street when previously i wouldn't have got a second glance.

 

But hero- me- no that's reserved for the staff in hospital who have literally pulled people back from the brink of death.

[GlenPudzeoch]

As a NHS worker, well GP medical practice worker and exRN officer the clapping ais appreciated, but even more so the Thank you from the checkout staff at security guards at the local supermarket etc, of from those who know what my team does.  It makes up for the years of politicing.  I see similarites in the approach to clapping/not clapping and the wearing of poppies by some and I repeat SOME individuials and media representatives.

[fezza]

If you want to thank essential workers ask the political leaders to make sure they get a real living wage for the essential work they do - and don't vote for politicians that refuse or obfuscate on the issue. Care workers in particular have very tough jobs and are often paid a pittance. 

[Legend]

20 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Of course if there were no folks running the show the doctors and nurses would have to do all that work themselves on top of what they are already doing.  It's popular to think the show runs itself but it doesn't. 

 That’s not what I meant . I meant at the country level.  Dominic Cummings etc