Lima 45XX to a 0-6-2 shunter

[OliverRowley]

Hello all!

I've only been in somewhat of a lock-down for a week now and I may be going slightly mad. What if a 45xx was modified to became a 0-6-2 for heavy shunting? 

I think the stem of my madness is my love of colliery 0-6-2 shunters and my desire to have one for use on my colliery layout (Heapton Colliery Quayside, here on RMweb), however inappropriate it may be. As someone who hasn't done any of radical modifications, but would like to, I thought a model modified into an 0-6-2 colliery shunter killed 2 birds with one stone. 

I originally thought of using something NSR/LMS/MR as my base mode as it is where Heapton Colliery is set, but nothing really sparked my interest or got my creative juices flowing-with regards to cheap RTR models. Then I happened upon an eBay listing for a Lima 45xx missing a front pony truck. 

& here it is; so blissfully unaware of the pain that will come its way:

 

Decent body (but molded handrails), slightly worn paintwork and a running chassis. 

 

So my masterplan:

Knock the body up into something that looks vaguely 45xx like, but not too similar,

DCC fit it,

Add handrails, both replacing originals and maybe adding new positions for some, 

Detail the cab (although the motor does take up some space inside the cab),

Repaint,

Weather ,

Come up for such a machines existence and history, 

And some other bits I've no doubt forgotten!

 

I don't know that much in regards to how a locos were designed to forfill a task in real life so any comments with regards to making this look somewhat prototypical would be greatly appreciated as will any if I'm being honest: good, bad or ugly! 

 

Thanks 

OR

[luke the train spotter]

7 minutes ago, OliverRowley said:

Hello all!

I've only been in somewhat of a lock-down for a week now and I may be going slightly mad. What if a 45xx was modified to became a 0-6-2 for heavy shunting? 

I think the stem of my madness is my love of colliery 0-6-2 shunters and my desire to have one for use on my colliery layout (Heapton Colliery Quayside, here on RMweb), however inappropriate it may be. As someone who hasn't done any of radical modifications, but would like to, I thought a model modified into an 0-6-2 colliery shunter killed 2 birds with one stone. 

I originally thought of using something NSR/LMS/MR as my base mode as it is where Heapton Colliery is set, but nothing really sparked my interest or got my creative juices flowing-with regards to cheap RTR models. Then I happened upon an eBay listing for a Lima 45xx missing a front pony truck. 

& here it is; so blissfully unaware of the pain that will come its way:

 

Decent body (but molded handrails), slightly worn paintwork and a running chassis. 

 

So my masterplan:

Knock the body up into something that looks vaguely 45xx like, but not too similar,

DCC fit it,

Add handrails, both replacing originals and maybe adding new positions for some, 

Detail the cab (although the motor does take up some space inside the cab),

Repaint,

Weather ,

Come up for such a machines existence and history, 

And some other bits I've no doubt forgotten!

 

I don't know that much in regards to how a locos were designed to forfill a task in real life so any comments with regards to making this look somewhat prototypical would be greatly appreciated as will any if I'm being honest: good, bad or ugly! 

 

Thanks 

OR

Heard rumors that you're thinking of adding a giesel injector to the loco too. 

[LNWR18901910]

Sounds very creative!

[Miss Prism]

A loco like that is unlikely to have a front platform in my opinion. Suggest study a few Welsh 0-6-2Ts.

 

[OliverRowley]

1 hour ago, luke the train spotter said:

Heard rumors that you're thinking of adding a giesel injector to the loco too. 

Ooo rumour has it

 

Maybe... In for a penny and all that 

[OliverRowley]

49 minutes ago, LNWR18901910 said:

Sounds very creative!

Danke!

 

[OliverRowley]

33 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

A loco like that is unlikely to have a front platform in my opinion. Suggest study a few Welsh 0-6-2Ts.

 

Thanks!

Its about as far as my own designing got, the over hang may be long, but I've always liked the front heavy look of the super-heated LSWR 700's so I think I'll keep it!

 

Noted! They are a rabbit hole in of themselves!

[RAWRlab]

I really like this idea - it's the kind of stuff that I trawl this board in search of. 
I do think, however, the front-heavy aesthetic of the loco could be retained with a little less overhang. 
Here's a bad MS-paint mockup to show how I think you could retain the look you're going for, whilst also making a probable-looking locomotive: 

This would involve cutting down the boiler and sticking the smokebox back on, as well as chopping off the running plate past the pistons and sticking the buffer beam on. 
Given that the buffer beam is hanging down from a relatively high running board, this could open you up to just extending it down well past the pistons, giving that wasp-stripe, big flat-face buffer beam like Austerities or Diesel shunters. Just a thought. 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

18 hours ago, OliverRowley said:

... use on my colliery layout ...

As it's on a colliery, unless there is longer range trip work, it doesn't need much of a bunker; and it turn that means it doesn't need a trailing truck, with all the advantages that come with a total adhesion loco. Following on from what RAWRlad suggests above, also prune the bunker end, ditch the truck, and then fit heavy and deep slab steel bufferbeams to notionally bring the axleload up to the maximum your colliery's rails can carry, and to protect it from the endless rough shunts. Some near ground level steps and associated handrails for the yard shunter to ride around on too?

[OliverRowley]

7 hours ago, RAWRlab said:

I really like this idea - it's the kind of stuff that I trawl this board in search of. 
I do think, however, the front-heavy aesthetic of the loco could be retained with a little less overhang. 
Here's a bad MS-paint mockup to show how I think you could retain the look you're going for, whilst also making a probable-looking locomotive: 

This would involve cutting down the boiler and sticking the smokebox back on, as well as chopping off the running plate past the pistons and sticking the buffer beam on. 
Given that the buffer beam is hanging down from a relatively high running board, this could open you up to just extending it down well past the pistons, giving that wasp-stripe, big flat-face buffer beam like Austerities or Diesel shunters. Just a thought. 

 

Its the sorta thing I love too!

 

Thank you for the edit! 

That's sorta what I imagine the loco to look like- had not considered cutting the boiler back, will definitely consider it. With regards to the buffer beam I would love to have that Austerity style. The cogs are well and truly turning now!

Thanks again

Olly 

[OliverRowley]

7 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

As it's on a colliery, unless there is longer range trip work, it doesn't need much of a bunker; and it turn that means it doesn't need a trailing truck, with all the advantages that come with a total adhesion loco. Following on from what RAWRlad suggests above, also prune the bunker end, ditch the truck, and then fit heavy and deep slab steel bufferbeams to notionally bring the axleload up to the maximum your colliery's rails can carry, and to protect it from the endless rough shunts. Some near ground level steps and associated handrails for the yard shunter to ride around on too?

The colliery system is relatively long (its fictional), but as you say there wouldn't be a need for that size of bunker so it may get trimmed to suit. However, I do fancy an 0-6-2 (a big fan of the NSR L Class that ended up at Walkden I believe) so I think the trailing axle will stay- just supporting a much reduced bunker. That is the plan for now at least!

 

Deep slab steel buffer beams are sounding more and more tempting... rough shunts will be common in its life on my colliery- what can I say I'm not a brilliant driver. Then it will be a proper old school bruiser of a shunter just teetering on the maximum my rails can carry.

 

Added to my list! Also fancy adding a shunters pole holder too

 

Cheers

Oliver 

 

[Harveyc]

If you'd like some extra information some other locos in the GWR neck of the woods might be some absorbed locos , this is a Taff Vale Railway N class 0-6-2 and when they were swindonised they came out looking something like your prairie . Outside cylindered locos were uncommon without pony trucks because they swayed about alot when accelarating but all that bulky panelling might pass?

[Mike 84C]

Didn't the Barry rly have some American Rogers built 0-6-2's with outside cyls that were Swindonised? I think they were all scrapped by the mid '30's. Cannot remember where I have seen pictures , sorry.

[OliverRowley]

On 01/04/2020 at 15:53, Harveyc said:

If you'd like some extra information some other locos in the GWR neck of the woods might be some absorbed locos , this is a Taff Vale Railway N class 0-6-2 and when they were swindonised they came out looking something like your prairie . Outside cylindered locos were uncommon without pony trucks because they swayed about alot when accelarating but all that bulky panelling might pass?

Noted!

Both locos look great I'll definitely be taking design ideas from them

I didn't know that, yeah if i knock up some paneling maybe it would look decent!

[OliverRowley]

On 01/04/2020 at 21:30, Mike 84C said:

Didn't the Barry rly have some American Rogers built 0-6-2's with outside cyls that were Swindonised? I think they were all scrapped by the mid '30's. Cannot remember where I have seen pictures , sorry.

I'll look into it! Thank you. Don't worry I'll chase up the pictures!

[OliverRowley]

Apologies for the poor picture, but here is my haul from RT models consisting of:

Giesl Ejector (always fancied a loco with one)

Austerity/J94 injectors (just thought it'd add something else to below the footplate)

Smokebox door handle (don't know how to make my own replacement for the molded one)

Peckett style buffers (just thought it'd add some 'family resemblance' with the Pecketts in the Heapton Colliery fleet).

 

Obviously these will all hopefully change the look of the 45xx whilst also adding a little weight!

 

OR

[OliverRowley]

So here's a little update. The dropped section the footplate has been cut off with a view to neaten the new front up and add the new buffer beam. I must say it looks borderline ridiculous, but I like it! Apologies for the poor photography...

 

[OliverRowley]

And another!

Here's the Giesl Ejector test fitted. Quick question: should I fit it and glue it then Milliput/filler primer to fill the gaps or measure the space the Ejector would take then fill accordingly? As I said I am all very new to this so help would be greatly appreciated!

The rear buffers have also been removed. Although they did not come off cleanly so the beams will be replaced to match the front one- maybe austerity style... those molded lamps will be removed too.

[Mike 84C]

Oliver, I found the 0-6-2 I was refering to  its a Barry rly Class K  0-6-2t built by Cooke . A class of 5 locos built 1899 and scrapped  between April 1927 and May 1932.  Numbered by the GWR  193/197.  194&6 were  Greatwesternised.   If you are interested  there is an article in Back Track Vol 18 No 6  for June 2004 which has a small write up on most of the "modern"American steam types that ran in Britain . One side view photo of rebuilt 194 ( NRM/BTC 2717/64 and a 3/4 view  from the TJ Edgington Collection.

  Hope this  helps and if you cannot get the info you need  pm me and I can do you a scan.

[The Johnster]

Assuming that you want to make it look a bit more ‘freelance industrial’ than it’s GW origin, I’d suggest going for either inside cylinders or outside Walchaert’s valve gear, no GW type smokebox handrail, a completely new cab and bunker, perhaps from a Hunslet Austerity hopper type, and a dome replacing the GW safety valve cover. Big shunter’s steps at the corners  

 

It’d look feasible, and I can guarantee nobody else will have one.  

[OliverRowley]

On 03/04/2020 at 23:11, Mike 84C said:

Oliver, I found the 0-6-2 I was refering to  its a Barry rly Class K  0-6-2t built by Cooke . A class of 5 locos built 1899 and scrapped  between April 1927 and May 1932.  Numbered by the GWR  193/197.  194&6 were  Greatwesternised.   If you are interested  there is an article in Back Track Vol 18 No 6  for June 2004 which has a small write up on most of the "modern"American steam types that ran in Britain . One side view photo of rebuilt 194 ( NRM/BTC 2717/64 and a 3/4 view  from the TJ Edgington Collection.

  Hope this  helps and if you cannot get the info you need  pm me and I can do you a scan.

Hi were they the 813's?

I'll have a looksie into them as they appear to have an emence history!

It has defintity helped and I'll see what I can find online, I may PM you soon!

Thanks again

[OliverRowley]

*immense

**definitely 

[OliverRowley]

21 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Assuming that you want to make it look a bit more ‘freelance industrial’ than it’s GW origin, I’d suggest going for either inside cylinders or outside Walchaert’s valve gear, no GW type smokebox handrail, a completely new cab and bunker, perhaps from a Hunslet Austerity hopper type, and a dome replacing the GW safety valve cover. Big shunter’s steps at the corners  

 

It’d look feasible, and I can guarantee nobody else will have one.  

At the moment that is what I am leaning towards a freelance, although a damaged then rebuilt 45xx seems ever tempting.

As it would operate on a colliery I'll keep the outside cylinders as they would make it easier for maintenance crews, but I had not considered Walchaert's valve gear. I'll look into seeing if a)I can get hold of any parts to make it b)if my skill set would allow me to do it competently. Have mocked up a few cabs in a Kerr Stuart style, but I am very much open to ideas! Austerity style hopper would be interesting to play about with, as would replacing the dome- yet to find one I think would work with the rest of the loco. The valve cover is again something I am searching for an alternative I like. Shunters step and associated handrails and pole mounts are being played with at the moment.I think alot of these decisions will be based on my scracthbuilding skill!

 

Indeedy! 

[jcm@gwr]

38 minutes ago, OliverRowley said:

*immense

**definitely 

 

In case you hadn't realised, you can edit your post directly.

There is an 'edit' button near where the 'quote' & 'reply buttons are.

[The Johnster]

When I suggested outside Walchaert's valve gear, my thinking was that the Giesl and taper/Belpaire boiler suggested a fairly modern type of loco, and a requirement from the customer for a minimum of inside frame maintenance; perhaps there is no inspection pit.  A suitable running chassis with modern looking cylinders is probably the Bachmann Ivatt 2MT tank, which will give you better slow running than the Lima, and leave the cab clear for detailing.  A retrofit dome for this or the Ivatt 2MT mogul would be suitable as well, as are those from the S160 'USA' tank.

 

Rule 1 trumps everything, but I couldn't get my disbelief suspension software to accept a 4575 GW small prairie rebuilt after accident damage to be sold off into private industry.  Swindon wouldn't have done this,  they'd have either rebuilt the loco as a 4575, possibly fitting auto gear if this was 1953, or dismantled the loco to provide additional stock of spare parts, if these were in good condition at the time of the accident.  For this reason I am encouraging you to make the loco look as little like a GW product as possible.  

 

I can live with the following scenario, just about; a private industrial built 'in house' like the Dowlais Steelworks locos utilising a second hand Swindon No.3 boiler in good condition from an accident victim, dating it to the early 60s.  Hunslet type Austerities were still being built for the NCB at this time; I leave it to you to invent an industrial scenario for a modern steam loco, perhaps with a Porta underfeed stoking system for single manning and mirrors so that it can be driven from either side of the cab.  Livery would almost certainly be plain black with red painted rods and motion, yellow buffer beams, possibly wasp stripes.

 

This is an interesting project and I'm eager to see how it turns out.  

Edited April 5, 2020 by The Johnster