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Shelf Marshes (first attempt at a cameo layout)


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12 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Hi Richard,

Congratulations on achieving such a breakthrough, it must be very heartening to do so.

Really nice neat wiring too.

Very well done,

John.

 

It was incredibly satisfying to see the car run for the first time last week, and watch the log file spooling itself out in real time. Since then I have tweaked some of the details, but I know the code is basically "right" and I can now add or remove features without expecting to break it.

 

Here is a log file from this morning. The system powers up and then the car does three laps. The total of three laps is decided by the software; it gives me either two or three chosen at random. You can see the emulated gear change at line 25 (08:37:04), and the amount of free memory is the same at the end as it was at the start, which is some reassurance of robustness!

 

- Richard.

 

log.pdf

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Yesterday evening, the laptop fell off the edge of the table (where it was rather precarious to begin with) and landed on my foot which I somewhat stupidly but instinctively  pushed out to deflect its fall. The laptop is a ruggedised thing, built like a metal brick, and is unscathed; the foot felt the impact but is unbruised; and the upload cable ripped itself out of the Arduino.

 

This has left the Arduino in perfect working order but without an upload port. Perhaps Fate is trying to tell me something - no more software tweaks!

 

- Richard.

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2 hours ago, 47137 said:

Yesterday evening, the laptop fell off the edge of the table (where it was rather precarious to begin with) and landed on my foot which I somewhat stupidly but instinctively  pushed out to deflect its fall. The laptop is a ruggedised thing, built like a metal brick, and is unscathed; the foot felt the impact but is unbruised; and the upload cable ripped itself out of the Arduino.

 

This has left the Arduino in perfect working order but without an upload port. Perhaps Fate is trying to tell me something - no more software tweaks!

 

- Richard.

Richard,

 

Sounds like Murphy & Gravity have teamed up to create a new Law.

 

Ian

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On 25/02/2021 at 10:28, ISW said:

Richard,

 

Sounds like Murphy & Gravity have teamed up to create a new Law.

 

Ian

 

It gets better.

 

This morning I sat down to debug the PIR sensor on my "scenics processor". This processor is another Arduino, but dedicated to driving a text display with a description of the layout plus two animation servos. Well, the sensor kept on tripping, even with me consciously keeping arms and hands well out of the way.

 

Then I saw my cup of coffee on the table about a yard away from the front of the sensor ...

 

- Richard.

 

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Going back to the Magnorail, I remember the length of the electrical connection to its display is supposed to be limited to a metre or so. Thinking about reliability and reducing the number of pins on multi-way plugs and sockets, I've decided to put this display on the fascia of the layout, not on a demountable control panel. If I paint the fascial black instead of white and arrange for the display to switch off when it's not in use, it should hardly show.

 

The fascia is two layers of 3mm bendy ply glued together and I think it is worth posting this photo because it shows how easily this stuff cuts with a craft knife. No need for a saw, so it was straightforward to carve out a rectangular hole:

P1030043_RW2_embedded.jpg.8c0e2f5ecff12d98592754faa58da353.jpg

 

The hobby room is now out of bounds while fresh undercoat "goes off", hence me sitting at the computer posting a photo of a hole in a bit of plywood.

 

- Richard.

Edited by 47137
Restore lost photograph
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Hi Richard,

Indeed, thin ply does cut well with a craft knife and straight edge! In fact, I would go as far as saying that a craft knife is the best way of cutting plywood up to say, 4 or 5 millimetres thick! It needs plenty of strokes but it can be done.

Most other ways of cutting such material always end up spalling the edges (leaving splinters!) but I always sand down afterwards anyway, too many splinters have ended up in my hands otherwise.

Looking forward to seeing the finished display unit.

Cheers,

John

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I have barely an inch of space behind the fascia ply here (barely enough room to manoeuvre the display in), so a saw wasn't going to be very practical.

 

I rather like bendy ply, although I do not understand how it works! It ought to be useful for structural things where a curve makes for a stronger job, and for model-making like a curving retaining wall. So far I've only tried the 3mm version.

 

It can shrink lengthwise very slightly. I have three panels of the stuff for my backscene, these were butted up tight against each other last summer, fixed with Evostik Timebond and then painted, and now there are narrow cracks opened up between them. Perhaps 0.2 mm movement on a 1.2m board and 0.1 mm on a 400 mm board, giving a 0.3 mm gap between them.

 

- Richard.

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I've been fettling the Arduino software for my Magnorail system. The car now accelerates to a higher maximum speed, holds it for longer and brakes to a lower speed for the roundabout. This looks good, the overall impression is about right.

 

The chain still manages to trip every reed switch every time, but the smallest window for this to happen is now 33 milliseconds, between waypoint 4 and waypoint 1. During the initialisation sequence, this is the free time after setting the servo for the route of the bike; and during the normal sequence it is the free time after decelerating from a pleasing maximum speed and using a realistic braking rate. So really, I have reached the limit of what I can achieve in this rather confined system.

 

On the bright side, I have managed this using a purely procedural approach to programming where one thing happens after another. I do not need to alter the speed of the car and move the servo at the same time; and this is fortunate because it would need programming techniques beyond my present ability.

 

/cut (... and so I have reached the limit of what I can achieve using a purely procedural approach to programming where one thing happens after another. Anything better needs me to alter the speed of the car and move the servo at the same time; and this is somewhere I don't want to go with my present Arduino expertise.) /

 

 

The next video on YouTube has had to be delayed, but I am sure it will come along one day. In the meantime, I've attached a log file from a run yesterday. I've now promised myself to the leave the software untouched until I get back to work, and I'm hoping this will be around four weeks from now, when non-essential retail shops in England can prepare to reopen.

 

- Richard.

log.pdf

Edited by 47137
New conclusion (what happened to the strikeout feature?)
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Over four months have passed since I ran a train. I have put the layout back into its alcove and shuttled my Class 66 up and down along it - good. I have tried filming this with the Magnorail running at the same time, with some success too.

 

I painted the fascia of the layout a dark grey a few weeks ago. Curiously this seems to make the front of the layout recede, and the baseboard look more shallow from front to back. I was expecting the opposite to happen. I need to have a rethink about the model buildings on the layout. The chemical plant has got to stay (of course) but the area behind the Magnorail might look better with a single-storey warehouse or similar (low relief of course), not the block of flats.

 

I do rather like being able to move buildings around the layout to photograph them in different locations ... and with this, I can feel a reluctance to fix anything down.

 

- Richard.

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1 hour ago, 47137 said:

I do rather like being able to move buildings around the layout to photograph them in different locations ... and with this, I can feel a reluctance to fix anything down.

Richard,

 

I'd much rather have all my (future) buildings to be removable. The idea of them being fixed fills me with dread. I'm sure there is some Law that states "... as soon as you fix it down, you will need to remove it ...". Even if they only fit in one location, being able to remove a building is sure to be useful for access, cleaning, small building repairs, etc.

 

Ian

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I think my buildings should be "attached" so I can take the layout to shows one day. But the fixings needs to be undoable - screws going up from underneath or maybe some small magnets.

 

Actually, one of the buildings needs to lift off easily, because I built a voltage and current meter into the baseboard. I wanted an ammeter available as I loaded up the power unit, but I didn't want to be looking at it all the time. An electricity substation building would be good.

 

The chemical plant will be harder. Perhaps I should make it "detachable if desperate" - fix its sub-base onto the baseboard with screws but not glue, and lay scenery over the join.

 

I don't suppose anyone reading this has tried Sculptamold? The obvious thing to do next is give the landscape a bit of shape, and try to keep the weight down.

 

- Richard.

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47 minutes ago, 47137 said:

I don't suppose anyone reading this has tried Sculptamold? The obvious thing to do next is give the landscape a bit of shape, and try to keep the weight down.

Richard,

 

I've not (yet) tried Sculpamold, but I'm sure Everard Junction and Chadwick Model Railway (both on YouTube) have used it in their videos. It does seem incredibly popular. My concern with the stuff is that it 'looks' heavy. I think it's just plaster-of-paris + shedded paper, and you add water, shovel it onto the layout and smooth it to shape. I guess you keep the weight down by only using a thin layer on top of the 'feature', be it scrunched up newspapers or polystyrene foam. I'll be using the latter as I have quite a stash in the garage from bedroom furniture packing.

 

Surely you could make your own version of the stuff (I find it easier to spell 'stuff' than 'sculptamold') using old paper / kitchen towel / tissues and a liquidiser to shred it? Maybe using a paper-shredder first, then the liquidiser. Then just add a water/pva mix and smooth out. Just a thought ...

 

Ian

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3 hours ago, 47137 said:

 

I don't suppose anyone reading this has tried Sculptamold? The obvious thing to do next is give the landscape a bit of shape, and try to keep the weight down.

 

- Richard.

Hi Richard,

I’m pretty sure that was what was used for the new scenery on the Manchester MRS clubs P4 layout, I remember being impressed with how lightweight it was. It’s a few years ago now though so sorry I can’t be 100% certain that was the stuff.

 I used pink Knauf spaceboard (from Wickes, when they sold it), covered with a single layer of plaster soaked bandage, covered with a mix of sieved soil and Chinchilla dust, roughly spooned into position. That gave me a lovely rough terrain appearance that I wanted. It wasn’t particularly heavy.

That was on my Prussian layout within the German section.

Cheers,

John

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Surely you could make your own version of the stuff (I find it easier to spell 'stuff' than 'sculptamold') using old paper / kitchen towel / tissues and a liquidiser to shred it? Maybe using a paper-shredder first, then the liquidiser. Then just add a water/pva mix and smooth out. Just a thought ...

I perfected a technique using a liquidiser to mash up old paper, no need to shred it first. It is a very wet mix, and you will need to squeeze a lot of the water out, but reuse that in next mix. Don't put the water down drain as it actually has a lot of starch glue in it, and it can block your drains!

I tend to build up a framework of landscape then press the still damp mash into it. Not so good if you think base etc will warp when wet! It takes ages to dry, but as it dries it can crack and lok like a naturally broken up hillside. I don't add pva. Only advantage would be to speed up drying process. It won't be any stronger. Reasonably lightweight.

If you want something like that plaster/paper mix, then use cheap emulsion paint with shredded paper mixed in. I used to use it. Easy to do, but it can be as heavy as plaster.

 

For finishing, and filling odd holes, try Wilkinsons own flexible wood filler, the brown version. Absolutely superb. Very tough, and as it is water based it won't react with anything on model. If it starts to dry up in tub, just adding some water makes it usable.

Edited by rue_d_etropal
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2 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

I perfected a technique using a liquidiser to mash up old paper, no need to shred it first. It is a very wet mix, and you will need to squeeze a lot of the water out, but reuse that in next mix

Is it necessary to add water during the liquidiser process? I was thinking of doing it 'dry', just to shred the paper into smaller bits. I'd add water (& PVA?) when actually using the 'stuff' to mould shapes on the layout. I wonder if this would work?

 

Ian

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without water the paper will not mash down. Might also damage the liquidiser. The resultant mash is good stuff. It is true papier mache. It does  not need any more glue added. The poorer the quality of the paper, the easier it will mash down,and the better the mash.

An alternative method is to sok toilet roll paper(unused!!) in water, no need for a liquidiser. I found that you need to tear up paper, soak it and let it start to break up into a mash, squeeze out some of the water then put it back in (same +) water and it will break up even more and you end up with a good mash. Experiment with different types of paper.

I have managed to use this mash , in molds to create things, It takes a bit of effort to force out as much water as possible.

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9 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

without water the paper will not mash down. Might also damage the liquidiser. The resultant mash is good stuff.

I'll bear that in mind, as the liquidiser belongs to my better half ...

 

Ian

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I have mashed a lot of paper, and worn out a few liquidisers so have lots of experience. Having said that I have been told that cafes can wear out liquidisers as much , so it is not just the way I use them.

I have a lot of artwork using mash, as well as a few layouts, some have been exhibited here in north west, and article about my layout(Bangers and MASH)  inspired by the film MASH was published in Continental Modeller a couple of years ago.

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On 17/03/2021 at 12:15, rue_d_etropal said:

I have mashed a lot of paper, and worn out a few liquidisers so have lots of experience. Having said that I have been told that cafes can wear out liquidisers as much , so it is not just the way I use them.

I have a lot of artwork using mash, as well as a few layouts, some have been exhibited here in north west, and article about my layout(Bangers and MASH)  inspired by the film MASH was published in Continental Modeller a couple of years ago.

 

Hi Simon - nice to see you back here. Have you actually used Sculptamold, and if so how do you feel it compares to your 'mash'?

 

- Richard.

 

 

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not used it, but my mash is free stuff. Even using toilet roll paper is very cheap, and is easy to use. Not ideal for areas which will be damaged if they get wet!

I would rather use something I can easily get hold of rather than finding something specif to model making, an then strugglu=ing to ge hold of it.

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On 15/03/2021 at 13:32, 47137 said:

I don't suppose anyone reading this has tried Sculptamold? The obvious thing to do next is give the landscape a bit of shape, and try to keep the weight down.

 

The landscape of "Shelf Marshes" is supposed to be reclaimed land (an excuse if ever there was for a closed-top baseboard!), so the scenic treatment is going to be quite modest and gently undulating. I've got about +10/-0 mm to play with to get the effect I want.


This is my test piece built yesterday:

P1030063.jpg.b31330e23a1e565ce602803357012906.jpg

Photo lost, cannot be restored

 

The Sculptamold seems to hold well, including on the aluminium mesh where it has gone through and locked itself into the holes.

 

I want to let it dry out, and then try drilling it and sanding it down. So far it has lost 30g (note on the corner of the plywood board).

 

- Richard.

Edited by 47137
Attempt to restore lost photograph
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I think it was said that Sculptamold was a mix of paper and plaster. I mentioned I simply mixed shredded paper with emulsion paint, and it was quite effective. I tried it because I was looking for something like Artex, but would retain some of its height rather than sinking down when it dried.

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5 hours ago, 47137 said:

including on the aluminium mesh

Richard,

 

Can you get 'undulating' surfaces with that mesh? It looks like it will only want to bend in one direction at a time (think surface of a cylinder not surface of a sphere).

 

Ian

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