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6 hours ago, Silverfox17 said:

I like the studio set shots and wondered if the same baseboards were used for all the different scenarios.  I cannot imagine them pinning all the track down and gluing scenery down etc just for one photo.  The one I always liked was the large centre piece one in the amalgamation brochure that included the small ex Hornby Dublo range that Tri-ang were marketing at the time. 

 

Is there any TT slides in the collection Pylon King? 

 

Garry

Almost certainly temporary, as the mainline tracks went nowhere in those photos.

 

Still the staff must have enjoyed building the layouts.

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On 09/06/2020 at 09:04, BernardTPM said:

Very early System 6 points in those photos, before they got the replacement cast metal blades. I had exactly that generation of turntable, in that box.

Yes, those points are not easy to find and remain to my eyes the best design of System 6 point. According to Pat Hammond the production process resulted in too many rejects hence the redesign. I have one nickel silver example too - as a 'grown up' track system, the left & right hand points, crossovers and  flexible track were briefly made available in nickel silver but quickly deleted, they are tremendously hard to find nowadays.

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On 09/06/2020 at 08:39, Silverfox17 said:

I like the studio set shots and wondered if the same baseboards were used for all the different scenarios.  I cannot imagine them pinning all the track down and gluing scenery down etc just for one photo.  The one I always liked was the large centre piece one in the amalgamation brochure that included the small ex Hornby Dublo range that Tri-ang were marketing at the time. 

 

Is there any TT slides in the collection Pylon King? 

 

Garry

Sorry no TT transparencies, the archive consists of Triang/Hornby , Hornby Railways, Model-Land , Minix and Minic Motorways . 
The process for producing commercial photography back in the sixties was very expensive which meant only a few shots were taken for each catalogue. Rovex never really envisaged the long term aspects for creating  an archive and after a while would dispose of these colour masters . Fortunately Richard Lines managed to save some of the best photos .

 The following photos show the process in reverse from publication to the studio master colour transparency.E72EE56F-54CC-4DAB-86C2-B22891B415E3.jpeg.cbeb243576650ddc1869ae41e269235c.jpegF79F8BEC-82DE-413C-BFAF-108711822681.png.8ac4cbcb27ac41037b2bfc38d9048165.png774B7ED2-0CD5-4FB6-9CD7-7ADDCDCA6098.png.74d587be039b69e4704734d8711d9283.png

Edited by Pylon King
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On 09/06/2020 at 05:17, Pylon King said:

This  Rovex archival file contains the studio colour masters featuring those layouts in all their glory as well as the photographic studios  . Here is one of many examples illustrating how effective picture cropping can be.  This particular layout photo was   taken in autumn 1970 for the Track Plans publication and ‘71 British, Canadian , Australian catalogues as well as various box tops . 08632D40-94EE-486C-ACE5-B0A997FA424D.jpeg.c7d8eae22541a457d8ba36b33cf64699.jpeg31DC2A53-885E-4DA8-B5F6-838B1160C6F0.jpeg.906eba308012b425c29d74918045cb10.jpeg8B3F4238-C2CF-4E00-A314-DC26FE509F5B.jpeg.cad35c72d0d371b571f12745f5580839.jpeg 

Were there reliability/tooling issues with that version of the Triang turntable? I always preferred it to the later one with the the manual crank handle disguised as a water crane, which never looked as realistic.

 

David

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2 hours ago, David_Belcher said:

Were there reliability/tooling issues with that version of the Triang turntable? I always preferred it to the later one with the the manual crank handle disguised as a water crane, which never looked as realistic.

 

David

 

I dont think there were any issues with it . The original R408 had been in catalogue for some time .  R408U pictured was simply the "universal" version ie for use with the then new System 6 or previous Super 4 track systems . As far as I know it was the same as R408 but supplied with 4 R476 Converter Tracks for System 6. The fencing and dummy lights  might also be new . The model disappeared in 1974 when they severely curtailed the range to simplify production . As a result the 3rd edition of the track plans book which featured the turntable had to be hastily replaced with the 4th edition which took out all the accessories that were discontinued .

 

I had the R408U back in 1973 and was very happy with it . Id always wanted it having seen it in layout pics in catalogue . Stupidly I replaced it with the new 7 outlet spinning disc turntable in 1978  because it appeared more flexible than the three outlet R408 ,but this was poor right from the start . Compared with previous version very cheap and not well engineered at all . Conductivity depended on the underside of the outlet tracks making contact with brass strip at end of rails on the bridge  and this was very unreliable .  I suspect it was cheaper to build and maybe more easy for workers to assemble than the old R408. Cheaply made , bearing only a passing resemblance to a turntable . Of course the price didn't come down .   Finally found a replacement R408U from Triangman a few years ago that now has pride of place on layout .  I dont think they are that easy to come by , certainly not ones with the converter tracks to code 100/ system 6.  The track on the bridge remained Super 4 

Edited by Legend
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I do think there may have been a last batch of the R.408 Turntable that had code 100 rails on the bridge and outlets.

 

Similar to the old Gravity Unloading bridge that did get retooled and fitted with code 100 rails, after being supplied with Super 4 rails, and two Converter Tracks.

 

The R.408U also came with four ramps that clipped into the base, to take the converter tracks down to baseboard level.

 

The ramps, dummy lights and fencing entailed a minor retooling to provide the mounting points.

 

At the same time, the bridge parts, the control box, and other previously Maroon plastic parts, including the drive gear, were made in a black colour.

 

It is, in my opinion, far superior to the Geneva Gear drive later turntable.

 

One weakness seems to be the actual drive gear, which can go fragile and break apart, especially if the fixing screw is over tightened.

 

Contamination with the wrong type of oil probably doesn’t help either.

 

The maroon gears seem to be more prone to this.

 

Someone has made 3D printed replacement gears, that do away with a recess that possibly contributes to the weakness. On Shapeways site...

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/89WXTW2S5/triang-railways-r408-turntable-drive-pinion?optionId=74049969&li=marketplace

 

There have also been spare original gears on the likes of EBay from time to time.

 

The drive on the R.408 is ingenious, and uses a lot of standard parts.

The motor is the OO Gauge version (X.05) of the TT XT.60 motor, the same as fitted to the Lord of The Isles and Caledonian 123 locos.

The intermediate gears are the same as on the driving axle of most steam locos, 40 teeth brass. Later 40 teeth Plastic gears when they started being used on the locos.

 

The shaped drive gear (pinion) causes a dwell at the outlets, to give you a chance to stop the turntable in alignment.

 

gallery_12119_2911_239492.jpg.968bc533bdf63ed5660574de80ee71ff.jpg

 

Unlike the Geneva Gear drive, the R.408 rotates smoothly between dwell points.

 

 

Also see this new thread on here...

 

 

Edited by Ruffnut Thorston
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On 09/06/2020 at 08:39, Silverfox17 said:

I like the studio set shots and wondered if the same baseboards were used for all the different scenarios.  I cannot imagine them pinning all the track down and gluing scenery down etc just for one photo.  The one I always liked was the large centre piece one in the amalgamation brochure that included the small ex Hornby Dublo range that Tri-ang were marketing at the time. 

 

Is there any TT slides in the collection Pylon King? 

 

Garry

The studio layout featured in the 1970 , ‘72, ‘73 Track Plans Book covers , 1971, ‘72  British, Australian , Canadian catalogues was designed for easily track rearranging  to create different scenes, even the hills were on separate baseboards to achieve the same effect.

Edited by Pylon King
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3 hours ago, Pylon King said:

The studio layout featured in the 1970 , ‘72, ‘73 Track Plans Book covers , 1971, ‘72  British, Australian , Canadian catalogues was designed for easily track rearranging  to create different scenes, even the hills were on separate baseboards to achieve the same effect.

This whole discussion highlights, to me at least, the difference between marketing of their products between Tri-ang Hornby/Hornby Railways and Peco.

 

Peco set up a replica house showing where a fully working set of layouts could fit into a typical house. Pecorama, while it showed the results of using its trackwork and other products from it's range (mostly wagon & scenic products), items such as locomotives & coaching stock, have to be brought in.

Traditionally, the photos of their layouts for inclusion in Railway Modeller and their catalogue were usually pretty basic and black and white for years.

 

Hornby appeared to limit their layout 'building' to sets of dioramas, which showed how to use their products and effectively nothing else. But these were not proper layouts, but merely scenes for their customers to droll over.

The catalogues & plan books were always full colour and presented well in good resolution.

 

But perhaps the difference was that Hornby was mostly appealing to younger modellers & Peco to mostly adults? Of course things have changed as everything is in nothing but, full high quality colour these days.

 

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Well having kept all my train catalogues from about 63 - 90 love looking at them occasionally plus still use my "David Weston" calendars from mid 80's. Surprising no one ever reprinted them in a book, somehow modern ones just don't have that appeal.

 

In subject of large train layouts, recently on one of those Facebook sites someone put a link up to "Blue Peter" visiting one in a shop in London 1969, on utube I remember visiting such a shop can't remember which one. One day I said I will have such a layout one day ?

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