RMweb Gold brumtb Posted April 7, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 7, 2020 20 hours ago, melmerby said: Looking at some OS maps the track level at New Street Station looks to be approx 385' (There's a spot height at the junction of Hill St & Navigation St. of 407') Moor Street track level looks to be at about the same height as New St. track level at around 385' or so. Central Goods is above 425' so you are looking at a climb of about 40' in 3000' from Moor Street level in 1000 yards or 1 in 75 If you start back at Bordesley you can add another 1000 yards, so a moderate 1:150 gradient but you need level track at the station so it would be a steeper climb (say 1:100) followed by the level station, then another 1:100 to Central Goods. Thanks for your researching, it does help to define traffic patterns although in my mind Bull Ring station is a little further west than Moor Street which would ease the gradient from the Bordesley direction but increase the climb to Central Goods. Great western passenger trains would terminate at Bull Ring from the south whilst Midland passenger trains would run on the Camp Hill - West Suburban circuit. Freight trains between Bull Ring and Central Goods would be short trip interchange workings. However, whilst those short trip workings would face a stiff climb the gradient for passenger trains could possibly be eased if the linking line bypassed Central Goods and continued independently to join the West Suburban line at Church Road junction utilising in part the line to the original BWS terminal station at Granville Street. I believe that line became what was known as Cemetery Siding although it does seem to be on a higher level than Central Goods. I would be very interested in your thoughts. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted April 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) However you reach your station from the Midland/GWR interface near Bordesley you have to cross the Rea valley and would need a viaduct or embankment, as the land drops from Bordesley towards the Rea. The GWR is on Viaduct all the way from West of the Camp Hill line to Moor St. station. Immediately South/South West of Moor Street is St Martins so you would need to be well away from that. Maybe on an approx NE-SW alignment around Pershore St/Bromsgrove Street area? (Wholesale Markets that were) Or even just south of Edgbaston Street on a similar alignment where the current Rag Market is. By now you are way off alignment for access to Central Goods so your suggestion of a connection near Church Road station would be sensible and it would be fairly straight in from there to your station. BTW The East portal of Central goods is still accesible: https://goo.gl/maps/enBXCC4J7nQ6bbJTA Edited April 7, 2020 by melmerby 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted April 8, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 8, 2020 16 hours ago, melmerby said: However you reach your station from the Midland/GWR interface near Bordesley you have to cross the Rea valley and would need a viaduct or embankment, as the land drops from Bordesley towards the Rea. The GWR is on Viaduct all the way from West of the Camp Hill line to Moor St. station. Immediately South/South West of Moor Street is St Martins so you would need to be well away from that. Maybe on an approx NE-SW alignment around Pershore St/Bromsgrove Street area? (Wholesale Markets that were) Or even just south of Edgbaston Street on a similar alignment where the current Rag Market is. By now you are way off alignment for access to Central Goods so your suggestion of a connection near Church Road station would be sensible and it would be fairly straight in from there to your station. BTW The East portal of Central goods is still accesible: https://goo.gl/maps/enBXCC4J7nQ6bbJTA Good morning, many thanks for your suggestions which seem to fit well. I'm just printing off some old maps to plot the route. I'm particularly drawn to the south of Edgbaston Street route which fits more with my recollections of the city as a child in the early 50s. I enjoy trying to find clues to the old city but I really wasn't aware of the Central Goods East portal's survival, many thanks. It will be sometime before I can get to Birmingham again now though! Tony 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted April 24, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) Great Western 2-4-2T 3629 takes the morning parcels and milk empties back to South Warwickshire via the Hatton and Bearley line. The train is made up of recycled/reconstructed Ebay acquisitions, mainly K’s. I really wanted to include milk traffic on Birmingham Bull Ring, partly because I’m fond of NPCS and partly because it links into my family history. From around WW1 until the late 30s my maternal great-grandfather Herbert John Birchley was a master dairyman in Birmingham after having started his working life as a Brass Bedstead maker! It is known that Herbert obtained his milk supplies from South Warwickshire, so it is reasonable (to me) to assume it was delivered to Birmingham by the GWR. Below is a line-up of his “pre-grouping” delivery fleet, many of the people shown are family members. Edited December 14, 2022 by brumtb Replaced photos 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted April 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2020 Can you tell us more, or point us to information on, your "Birdcage"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted April 24, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2020 7 hours ago, Regularity said: Can you tell us more, or point us to information on, your "Birdcage"? Thanks, the 3600 originally took inspiration from a Railway Modeller article, A Birdcage for Polly, November 1977, and I decided to look at how to use the same techniques but with more modern materials. Bachmann's Lancashire & Yorkshire 2-4-2 seemed a likely donor as its overall dimensions are very close, despite the driving wheels being a little large, especially as, I understand, some sources say the prototype 3600 Class was based on the L&Y prototype. The Bachmann model was stripped down to the running plate and new water tanks, cab and bunker were built up from plasticard using the drawings in Russel's Great Western Engines. The boiler is an ex Mainline 2251 with the firebox extended to match the drawing. Fittings are mainly from Alan Gibson, Brassmasters or the scrap box. 3629 was shedded at Leamington in 1921 and so fits in with my late pre- grouping period. Fitted with a Zimo decoder it pulls well and shares passenger duties with the Class 3900 2-6-2. 9 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted May 7, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 7, 2020 Two additions to the Birmingham scene. The two horse delivery van is an old W&T kit with the rubber tyred wheels changed for wooden spoked ones. I happened to see a Chamberlain delivery van in an Edwardian photo of New Street in Birmingham. Chamberlain, King and Jones Ltd was a company of cabinet makers, upholsterers and furniture retailers operating in Birmingham from 1851 to at least 1956. The J. Hackett wagon is a Hornby 6 plank model with the chunky brake gear removed and lighter and simpler items added, one side only. The wagon and the company are described in Keith Turton’s Private Owner Wagons a Ninth Collection. It appears that J Hackett and Co started trading around 1869 and ceased around 1933. During the intervening years the company had depots and yards across Birmingham and out to Warwick, Leamington Spa and Solihull and according to Turton obtained its supplies via the L&NWR, Midland Railway and GWR and the wagons would have been in the Midlands coalfields and all over the Birmingham area. So very useful! 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted May 17, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 17, 2020 Midland Railway 1377 Class, number 1741(shedded at Saltley) passes through what will be Digbeth station with a short trip working. 13 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, brumtb said: Midland Railway 1377 Class, number 1741(shedded at Saltley) passes through what will be Digbeth station with a short trip working. I like that. A lot. Forgive me if this is someone's etched brass masterpiece, but is that the Bachmann "single cab" (one must be so careful) "Jinty" (there, I've said it) converted to a round-top firebox? If so, how did you manage it? Reports have suggested that the inner gubbins filled Bachmann's belpaire rendering this impossible without an internal rebuild. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted May 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 17, 2020 3 hours ago, brumtb said: Midland Railway 1377 Class, number 1741(shedded at Saltley) passes through what will be Digbeth station with a short trip working. Coming on nicely. The 36XX really looks the part. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted May 17, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 17, 2020 Yes it is the Bachmann model. I had a length of loco boiler in my bits box from another conversion which was the correct diameter. After cutting out the belpaire firebox, the "round top" length just fitted in and cleared the mechanism inside. It was then a case of filling in the cab front to the round profile and altering the backhead to match. A new dome and safety valve housing from Alan Gibson and removal of the toolbox from the running plate as I understand most locos didn't have them until LMS days. The smokebox handrail was changed to the earlier continuous type. That's about it. Tony 4 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 3 hours ago, brumtb said: Yes it is the Bachmann model. I had a length of loco boiler in my bits box from another conversion which was the correct diameter. After cutting out the belpaire firebox, the "round top" length just fitted in and cleared the mechanism inside. It was then a case of filling in the cab front to the round profile and altering the backhead to match. A new dome and safety valve housing from Alan Gibson and removal of the toolbox from the running plate as I understand most locos didn't have them until LMS days. The smokebox handrail was changed to the earlier continuous type. That's about it. Tony Great job. Thank you for showing the way with that one 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted May 23, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2020 Latest addition to the street scene. A lovely early motorcycle from Artitec. 16 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted June 23, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) Great Western Railway Saddle Tank 1363 passes Bull Ring Goods Station. Now I know the 1361 Class wasn't known for its visits to Birmingham but 1. I've always liked them 2. I have a vague but so far unsubstantiated memory of once reading that the GW considered expanding the class for more general use. 3. 1363 is on trial in the Birmingham area to gauge its suitability for the tight curves and tunnels between Bull Ring and the Central Goods interchange! 1363 has the early short chimney and lacks the toolbox which was a later fitment and as with most saddle tanks in the pre-grouping period no indication of ownership. Edited December 14, 2022 by brumtb Replaced photos 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 I’m sure I read of a 1361 going to Wolverhampton for repair once. Making its way slowly back home... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) . Edited June 23, 2020 by Clearwater Duplicate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 hours ago, brumtb said: ......... as with most saddle tanks in the pre-grouping period no indication of ownership. Caledonian saddle tanks had 'C . R' on the sides of the tank. Jim 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted June 23, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2020 38 minutes ago, Caley Jim said: Caledonian saddle tanks had 'C . R' on the sides of the tank. Jim Yes of course, sorry I meant GW saddle tanks. Tony 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) On 23/06/2020 at 19:44, brumtb said: and as with most saddle tanks in the pre-grouping period no indication of ownership. I think this was a very much a GWR and also a LNWR thing - it was obvious that you were on the GWR (or the LNWR), so why would you need to be constantly reminded of your evident good fortune ? Edited June 25, 2020 by CKPR 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted August 8, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2020 (edited) Great Western 1363 passes Bull Ring Goods Depot with a short trip working. The great Western outside framed covered goods wagon is a rebuild of a rather woebegone Ebay purchase. The real number 2137 was part of GW lot 252 built in March 1882. The brake van is an Oxford AA3 with alterations as recommended on RMweb. Thanks for looking Tony Edited December 14, 2022 by brumtb Replaced photos 16 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted August 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 8, 2020 You layout has really come on nicely, It's got the right feel about it. Are the cityscape buildings freelance or do they represent real ones? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted August 9, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2020 Thanks Keith I'm aiming for the feel and impression of the city rather than attempting to portray it accurately (I don't think I'm capable of that), so the buildings are freelance, scratchbuilt or kitbashed with the odd ready to plant slipped in where it looks suitable. Tony 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted October 21, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) The latest addition to the Birmingham Bull Ring infrastructure is the perishables unloading dock. This mainly handles the fruit and vegetable traffic from the Vale of Evesham for the Birmingham markets. Now, I just need to build some suitable vehicles to carry the produce! Whilst building it I enjoyed researching the history of fruit and vegetable growing in the vale and the beneficial impact the railways had for the growers. I was very interested to read the Agricultural Survey of the Vale of Evesham written by the writer Henry Rider Haggard on the state of the vale and its growers in 1901 which has much information on crops grown and how they were marketed. https://www.badseysociety.uk/market-gardening-and-farming/rider-haggards-agricultural-survey-the-vale-evesham https://www.explorethepast.co.uk/2019/06/market-gardening-heritage-project-transportation-research/ During my reading I also discovered a family connection to a vale grower which helps to add substance to my imaginings! Edited December 14, 2022 by brumtb Replaced photos 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2020 Coming on in leaps and bounds, I like the dedication. Seeing your progress tells me I really must get on and do some buildings. All I've got is some track (well quite a bit), some bare platforms and a couple of engine sheds! I need to try and replicate the platform awnings at Moor Street, as my terminus is loosely based on it, complete with a traverser. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold brumtb Posted October 21, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2020 Thanks Keith, yes Moor Street is and always was, a great place. Very much a part of my growing up. I shall be interested to see more. Tony 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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