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Hello All,

 

I've wanted a model of a Pickersgill 72 for ages, and I've now got hold of a badly built one to take apart and start again with.  5 minutes in some Nitromors had the paint off, and I was able to dismantle the body simply by gently pulling it apart.  Whatever glue had been used wasn't holding it very well!  I now have a load of castings to start again with, and I intend to solder it back together.  I'd like to try and improve on the original kit, so I will attempt to add detail where I can, including some brass overlays and perhaps a new smokebox door, as well as the usual seperately fitted pipework and handrails etc.  I've ordered some detailing bits and a tender from Caley Coaches, and Jim Smellie there couldn't have been more helpful.  I was inspired by Ben Alder's blog post about his Pickersgill, and using a Hornby T9 chassis, which is something I'm still thinking about, if I could get hold of one for a decent price. 

 

s-l1600.jpg.69cb3b7a1a3ef21f3a882eeec2d6cc9b.jpg

 

Here's the loco as received.

 

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Paint bubbling in the Nitromors.

 

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Useable castings, still with some cleaning up to do.

 

20200401_204355.jpg.8178dec0d12f17be6221f42ccb5e4347.jpg

 

Chassis, which would benefit from some detailing if it is going to be used.

 

20200401_204439.jpg.1c1f07d82dee93450bcc83c3726fbac2.jpg

 

A rivet press and tin snips kindly lent to me by friends.  I've never used a rivet press, or done much work with brass sheet, so this will be an experiment for me.

 

20200401_204326.jpg.14261b89954556299097a1bebe3d09af.jpg

 

The left hand running board has the vacuum pipe cast into it, which is quite nicely done, but I feel like it would be better if it was a seperate piece, so I may cut it off and make one from wire.

 

Any thoughts or advice for this project would be great.

 

Rick

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Following with interest...Dave at SEF should be able to supply parts if necessary. I will have a spare T9 chassis if you are thinking about it, but I found them light footed, although I did replace the tyred drivers, but they are adequate for the relatively light work I expect of them.

 

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Hi,

 

Sounds like you have never built a loco from a kit? I think the first step is to get hold of a drawing of the prototype but more importantly as many images of the loco as possible. Study these and then decide which parts of the white metal kit you want to change to improve the final look of the loco.

Brass sheet comes in many thicknesses so choose a selection, have a look at:

 

https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=category&task=listing&cid=1083&name=other-2&Itemid=189

 

I'm not sure I would use a rivet press to start with, on thinner section sheet a scriber will make a very good representation of a rivet head.

 

If you wish to join brass to white metal with solder you will need to tin (coat) the brass with solder and then use low melting point solder to join the barss to the whate metal tricky for a beginner, perhaps use super-glue?!

 

If you take things slowly you will be able to create a real gem from the kit you have purchased.

 

Regarding the chassis. Is it functioning ok? Is the wheelbase accurate to prototype? If this is the case, perhaps use this rather than purchasing something else. I agree with Ben Alder, Hornby T9 chassis is skittish.

 

Good luck, you will find the project very rewarding!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

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Perhaps the only brass additions it might benifit from might be to 're enstate the smoke box wing plates as it would have had when first built other than that I can't see what other brass work you need to do.

 

 As built the Caledonian used flush head rivets and round head rivets didn't appear untill LMS days.

 

 I agree with 30368 if the chassis in good shape stick with it,

  brake and sandbox detail is quite easy to add.

 What plans have you for the tender?

  The 812 tender from Caley coaches is pretty close with the right size and shape frames but I'm not sure of the tank size. 

 The last one I built was on some Midland white metal tender frames on which I filled the half moon shaped cut outs with solder then redrilled and filed the double oval holes the Caley tender has between each axle box. The tank was a GBL T9 8 wheel tend tank cut down to fit the frames. Its a bit of a bodge but looks ok.

 

  Good luck with it and I'll look forward to seeing how you get on with it

Edited by Londontram
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Thanks for the replies.  I've not tested the chassis yet, but one of my concerns is DCCing it, because it looks like its live to the frames.  Perhaps that wont be an issue if I carefully insulate the decoder. 

I've got bits to add brake gear and I can make up some sanders and other missing details if I keep the chassis.  I have done some kit building before, and I'm generally happy with soldering etc, although I've not done it for a while.  The last thing I built was a Meridian Ruston in 009, but that was all soldered together, including brass to whitemetal.  

 

20200402_101121.jpg.99f271a8065d32dcf9cf7a583831a782.jpg

 

I was planning to make brass overlays for the smokebox and front bufferbeam, there's quite a lot of rivet detail missing on the whitemetal castings, it was certainly like that in BR days.  I might also look at making a new smokebox door.   The tender is going to be a Caley Coaches one, but will need some modifications to make it right for the Pickersgill 72.

 

I had a parcel from Caley Coaches today, so I can start looking at all the bits and working out what I'm going to do first.  

 

20200402_175127.jpg.e91ac088d09aaf22c6c80f1816dbbc35.jpg

 

Hopefully some forward progress soon,

 

Rick

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I will follow this with interest.  I built an O gauge Pickersgill from the Alba models kit. Chronicled on my "Shez's workbench" thread. I am very much LNER (NB, NE And GC)  but have built a couple of Caley locos for no other reason than the fact that I think they look great. 

 

The advice on joining white metal and brass by tinning first is good. I used to be a bit scared of doing it but have now got the hang of it. I do have a temperature controlled iron though. Don't know if I would have the confidence without it. 

Edited by Shez
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Why not just use Archers rivets? A lot easier that making an overlay....

 

Lots of fun can be had with these old kits.
For the daft DCC can you not just change the drivers to insulated on both sides, and add another pair of pick-ups? 

I’d bin off that XO4 (unless it’s a 5 pole one) and put a modern motor and gearbox in instead. That will make a world of difference, and then don’t forget to add lead.

 

Andy g

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I had some new soldering iron tips arrive in the post, so I thought I'd better get on with putting the loco back together.  I've soldered up the main components of the body, the castings went together ok, and I'm fairly happy with the soldering.  It's now in a state where it can be sat on the chassis again, and I'm going to have a think about what detailing I want to add before I put the boiler on.

 

SAM_5361.JPG.9caac7a1bc8312b094ae2c2f254f36f8.JPG

 

Body soldered together.

 

SAM_5363.JPG.01921e3eb86c84cf2b8f54fcf94dac7d.JPG

 

Solder joints underneath.

 

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View from the rear.  The fallplate piece has the slot that the rear of the chassis sits in.

 

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Sat on the chassis.

 

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A dry run with the boiler in place.

 

I did consider Archer rivets, and I've used them before on a wagon I scratchbuilt, but I quite fancy having a go at making brass overlays for this model, mainly because it's not something I've done before, and it's a chance to try something new. 

 Rick

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  • 3 weeks later...

Progress update on the Pickersgill. 

 

A while ago I had a go at punching some rivets with my friend's borrowed rivet press, but I couldn't get on with it.  I then had a go at doing some freestyle with a hammer and a pin, but I found it impossible to get consistent results.  Being a fan of good tools, that was all the excuses I needed to buy a GW Models universal rivet tool, and it arrived this morning.  As the dials read out in MM, and allows very fine adjustments, I decided to draw out the bufferbeam 10x real size on graph paper, and then plot the coordinates of the holes.  This resulted in a successful 'riveting' session, although I do wonder if the bufferbeam now looks a bit too busy.  I used a mix of the 2mm scale and 4mm scale settings, and perhaps it might have been neater if I'd kept to the smaller size?  Thoughts on that would be appreciated.  Perhaps it will look ok once it's painted, and a has a coupling, vacuum, air, and steam heat pipes added.

 

20200420_220545.jpg

SAM_5400.JPG

SAM_5403.JPG

 

I've now soldered the buffers and the coupling hook in place, and it's ready to fix to the front footplate of the loco.

 

I drilled the buffers because they are supposed to be riveted to the bufferbeam, and I didn't think the turned components looked right just being plain around the base.  I'm planning to put bits of wire in the holes to represent the rivet heads.  Drilling them was a nerve wracking job, but amazingly, the .4mm drill survived to fight another day!  

 

SAM_5370.JPG

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SAM_5381.JPG

 

 

Finally, the coupling is made from two Smiths coupling hooks sweated together, I always think they look a bit too thin on their own.

 

SAM_5382.JPG

 

6883615036_3a9720b95f_o.jpgCR Pickersgill '72' class 4-4-0 No.54487 at Helmsdale by David Mason, on Flickr

 

Here's what it's supposed to look like!

 

Rick

 

 

Edited by Rick_Skateboard
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10 minutes ago, Rick_Skateboard said:

This resulted in a successful 'riveting' session, although I do wonder if the bufferbeam now looks a bit too busy.  I used a mix of the 2mm scale and 4mm scale settings, and perhaps it might have been neater if I'd kept to the smaller size?  Thoughts on that would be appreciated.  

 

Here's a pretty clear picture of the prototype. I think yours looks good.

 

http://www.fofnl.org.uk/images/180522.54473.Inverness.23-05-59.jpg

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  • 4 months later...
  • 4 months later...

A little late to this topic gents, only because I have recently decided I could justify such a model on my (very much WIP) layout, which is based just literally along the road from Dalry Road (64C) steam shed, where a few of these good-looking locos were shedded in the 1950's.  In 2018 I went to Railex and saw Stuart Holt's P4 layout 'Kyle of Sutherland' - now unfortunately scrapped - which features two of these. He has also written an article in the latest Scalefour News about aspects of their construction - much from scratch. I have hardly any scratch-building experience, apart from the beginnings of a Caley 'Pug' superstructure to go on to a Branchlines chassis, but Jim Smellie of Caley Coaches is sending me some 20mm brass tube which would suit the class 72 boiler (5ft. diam.) I am now part way through the process of trying to design/draw out chassis mainframes and footplate on graph paper using a scale drawing, again kindly sent me by Jim. It will be a long-term project I think. Pity the NuCast kit is no longer around, which I think is the subject of this thread. I hope we will see more progress with it Rick as and when.

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49 minutes ago, MacDuff999 said:

A little late to this topic gents, only because I have recently decided I could justify such a model on my (very much WIP) layout, which is based just literally along the road from Dalry Road (64C) steam shed, where a few of these good-looking locos were shedded in the 1950's.  In 2018 I went to Railex and saw Stuart Holt's P4 layout 'Kyle of Sutherland' - now unfortunately scrapped - which features two of these. He has also written an article in the latest Scalefour News about aspects of their construction - much from scratch. I have hardly any scratch-building experience, apart from the beginnings of a Caley 'Pug' superstructure to go on to a Branchlines chassis, but Jim Smellie of Caley Coaches is sending me some 20mm brass tube which would suit the class 72 boiler (5ft. diam.) I am now part way through the process of trying to design/draw out chassis mainframes and footplate on graph paper using a scale drawing, again kindly sent me by Jim. It will be a long-term project I think. Pity the NuCast kit is no longer around, which I think is the subject of this thread. I hope we will see more progress with it Rick as and when.

The boiler diameter does not include the lagging, so over lagging it will be over 5 feet

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14 hours ago, MacDuff999 said:

Pity the NuCast kit is no longer around, which I think is the subject of this thread.

 

The range rests but is still extant, with Dave who ran SEF. He has scaled back and is concentrating on the Nucast range now. I got a 72  cast from the last owner of Nucast just before he retired and the quality was fine, as far as these things go. It might be worth contacting Dave to see if he will do something for you, at least with the body parts - the Hornby T9 is an almost exact match for the chassis. He is not up and running yet, waiting to be able to travel and pick up a casting machine.

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Well Ben I got an e-mail from a woman who advised me that Dave was no longer associated with SEF, but gave me his contact 'phone number. On ringing him, he explained that he was working on the NuCast range only now, with an associate, and was waiting for delivery of casting machine(s). We agreed I would maintain contact, so I said I would ring him again in 3 months. Dave seemed to think early May  was a bit optimistic, but I will check with him then anyway to see how things are going. I am still pondering the possibility of scratch-building a chassis though; it would need to be with Gibson wheels, as they have the correct specification wheels (both drivers and bogie wheels) in their range. I have already done approximate designs for chassis and footplate on graph paper; my reference drawing, although from a CRA source, is to a scale of c. 6.4mm/ft! I really need to proceed with the DJH 'Jumbo' first though, so a May/June earliest date for any progress on the '72' is just as well.   

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  • 3 weeks later...

Been occupied with various things Steve, including doing a bit more work on the drawings. One thing which did strike me is the importance of both loco and tender having the same 'footplate' height above rail level. The only scaled tender drawing I have is the one sent to me by Jim Smellie of Caley Coaches, but that is of a 4,200gallon tender; the correct one for the loco, but the nearest to it in the Caley range is a 3571 gallon type, albeit it looks the right size from its outline drawing on the website, and the tender wheels are the same diameter. I am toying with the idea of acquiring one of these kits from Jim, and building it first. Then, at least, I will be able to design my chassis so that the loco footplate is at the same height, making sure that other key dimensions are correct as well. Sod's Law states that if I progress with this project without any undue delay, by the time it comes to speak to Dave again re the NuCast kit,  that version may well be not too far in the future! Whichever way, I now have a set of coupling rods  for the loco from Dave Franks, and have just ordered suitable drivers and crankpins from Ultrascale. I could source tender wheels of the right type from Markits, as U/scale ones would be a little over-scale, likewise bogie wheels. Gibson bogie wheels would be exactly right though, and I need to need to maximise clearance under the front wheel arches, while still giving a workable depth of frames at the front end.    

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Just noticed Steve, you are in Great Yarmouth. We have a long-term friend in Reedham, who we usually visit once a year! Not seen her for 18 months now of course. Are you in the town itself, or the surrounding area? Never know, might just be in your neck of the woods before next year!   

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In the town its self. We're on the housing estate behind the pleasure beach between the sea front and the river known as the Barracks estate on account that it was built on the site of an old army barracks.

The recent storms have taken all the beach from the Wellington pier to the harbours mouth. All the dunes have almost gone and the sea's upto the sea wall near the pleasure beach.

 

 The council is still dithering over the restoration of the Winter gardens as that continues to deteriorate oh and the big ugly Marina center and swimming pool has been demolished so they can build one even more ugly than the last.

 

  Here's a shot of the storm damage to the beach. The sand was level with the sea wall last week and only the top step was visable. Now the steps which are near the pleasure beach are "floating" in mid air with the sea starting to undermine the sea wall its self. It's estimated that between 8ft to 10ft depth of beach has gone in the space of a couple of days.

 

20210223_183016.jpg

Edited by Londontram
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  • 3 weeks later...

That looks a bit dire Steve! We don't often get to Gt. Yarmouth when we go to see Norma, and then usually its round the shops - and maybe the odd pub. I am marking time a bit on the class 72 at the moment, although do have the drivers on order from U/scale. I also have a set of Dave Franks rods, and a tender kit from Jim Smellie at Caley Coaches now, along with the right 4-foot, 12-spoke wheels from Markits. I will wait until I speak to NuCast Dave again in about 6/7 weeks, when I hope to get some indication as to whether there is a chance of the kit re-appearing in the not-too-distant. If not, it's an e-mail to Eileen's for some N/S and brass!   

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Only found this thread just now. I will be interested to see the build of the Pickersgill. I have one to build myself if I ever get around to it. I bought it a year or two ago from Finecast when I thought that they were not going to be produced again.  This was one of "Mine" in that I produced the original brass patterns for Nu Cast and although I got to build the first off castings I had to give the model back to Nu Cast so I don't have one of my own. Inflation meant that I paid almost as much for the kit as I was paid long ago for the original pattern making.

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

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