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Yet More Weed Killing Trains


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More ebay purchases (from a while ago) to share with you. Given that the loco is a Pannier Tank I'm assuming this is on the WR somewhere, and therefore the coach and van are converted from a previous life on WR, but I've fallen into that trap before, so I'll ask the learned members on here for their opinions on this. Two shots of the train, one, coming towards the camera, and one going away, so there is some reasonable references to at least identify what type of coach and van is used.

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Scan0019-2.jpg.43e61c9e98c3c94615f59fa72b37fd72.jpg

 

By enlarging the second photo, the train is either just about to set off, or is moving slowly as the it is approaching a LQ signal in the "off" position.

 

The third phot is (I assume) a shot of the interior of the van.........

Scan0010-2.jpg.49a24f784222994c411788353054cb44.jpg

 

.... and the fourth an internal shot of the coach, however, the windows that can be seen on the left don't seem to match the window arrangement of the coach - unless the windows on one side of the coach (the side that can't be seen in the photos) have been modified to accommodate the messing facilities better.Scan0009-2.jpg.73bd1b6e8f6c050d643f0ce5a5814952.jpg

 

I have more photos of other weed killing rolling stock that are not the above train (some appear a bit Heath Robinson or experimental, but none-the-less interesting) that I'll post on this thread in due course. In the meantime I hope the above photos are of interest. 

Edited by iands
correct a basic spelling error
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Agree about the coaches.  The brake vans are not part of the train, but the fact that they are BR not GW toads suggests that this is post 1963.

Edited by The Johnster
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4 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Agree about the coaches.  The brake vans are not part of the train.  

Yes, agree about the brake van(s). Where I mention "van" above, I was referring to GUV/Siphon type vehicle (the one fitted with the spray-heads). Apologies if I've caused any confusion.

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Just now, iands said:

Yes, agree about the brake van(s). Where I mention "van" above, I was referring to GUV/Siphon type vehicle (the one fitted with the spray-heads). Apologies if I've caused any confusion.

No apology needed, lands, my purpose was to try to pin down the date of the photo.

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A different train this time. Again, no idea of the stock other than the plate on the end says "OVERALL LENGTH & WIDTH 35FT 9INS, 8FT 11INS".

 

Scan0015.jpg.44194fb3cdbab683d1a8e7bd78ffb93f.jpgScan0023-2.jpg.4a31d5c64a5435699b7eedec2e430902.jpgScan0045-2.jpg.8982500e5e6a15104af9bd619e810ab4.jpg

 

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The last one's definitely Southern ...... started off with an SECR spray van with six old loco tenders, then updated with these 1942 vans ( 1947 ? )  and but received 'proper' tank wagons some time in BR days ..... but it's the same set - 'bit liker Trigger's broom!

 

The suggestion of a Siphon H in the first train is wrong as the 'H' had a far higher roof : it's probably an  early Siphon G : the HMRS Siphon 'bible' lists three 1927 vans which 'became Service vehicles' in 1961 - this may be one of those.

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A couple of shots of a 3rd train. In the second shot there is a number, can't quite make out if it is 96822 or 98822 and can't decipher the prefix letter. The wording below is either Civil Engineers Department or Chief Engineers Department (I think). I'm assuming the engine (with the guy climbing on/off) is a tank engine, with a couple of tenders used as water bowsers.

 

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Scan0021-2.jpg.adc2541be90dd0535816c4453adfa7c7.jpg

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Some WD examples .......

 

Scan0011.jpg.d1d3c59b1478a5e403af51a7ed0b39cc.jpgScan0013-2.jpg.a5e3b86e316e2f08343caf6ee275b26c.jpgScan0014-2.jpg.8c02768a8d624d051e6796e534749980.jpgScan0020-2.jpg.65f52abf28ab020836d93e1962b045c5.jpg

 

... and this one seems to be a particularly Heath Robinson attempt .....

 

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Scan0007.jpg.2d3099706a90ffb4fa33bc955b08e47a.jpgScan0008-2.jpg.05ce1ad505ae43d7b0c098d2bf67d502.jpg

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A final batch of photos, best described as a "miscellany";

 

Judging by the hydrant, this one could be American/Canadian. Some faded letters on the bogie wagon but I can't quite make it out ....Scan0042-2.jpg.cf7ed80caae11d70d72e7972c4f3ddb8.jpg

 

A "Wickham" and a trolley ....

Scan0043-2.jpg.cc1babb4796e2700da2c2fa7f6bfbc30.jpg

 

The notes on the back of this one read:

"British Railways (Western Region) Civil Engineers Office Photographic Dept.

Negative No. C13646

Negative taken 14 NOV 1955", with a handwritten note "Weed killing apparatus on gang trolley - Kingham".

Scan0047-2.jpg.3690df3d5d8becb5bd14ab3485b5c0ff.jpg

 

And the last two are non-railway examples ....

Scan0044-2.jpg.999e40ec0bd229c78a8d974237ea7ef6.jpg

 

This one has a rather distinctive building in the background bearing the initials K.L.G. Would anyone know if this would be the former K.L.G. spark plug factory in Putney Hill?

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Hope these photos have been of interest. For any modellers that have a gash wagon/van/coach or two and don't know what to do with them, just "convert" them to a weed killing unit, even if you don't actually run it in a train, just stick them at end of a siding as an added attraction.

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19 hours ago, iands said:

A different train this time. Again, no idea of the stock other than the plate on the end says "OVERALL LENGTH & WIDTH 35FT 9INS, 8FT 11INS".

 

Scan0015.jpg.44194fb3cdbab683d1a8e7bd78ffb93f.jpgScan0023-2.jpg.4a31d5c64a5435699b7eedec2e430902.jpgScan0045-2.jpg.8982500e5e6a15104af9bd619e810ab4.jpg

 

Interesting photos, the first has a very South London look about it, whilst the latter two appear to be in Horsham Yard, in the sidings adjacent to Chipman's premises.

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10 minutes ago, SED Freightman said:

Interesting photos, the first has a very South London look about it, whilst the latter two appear to be in Horsham Yard, in the sidings adjacent to Chipman's premises.

It's an SE&CR/ SR Parcels and Miscellaneous Van, I believe. In comparison with the photos and drawings in Gould, it seems to have gained windows in the doors. The dimensions on the plate coincide with those on the drawing.

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Yes, I don't think anyone could mistake the provenance of the Maunsell/Lynes 'Edith Cavell' vans for anything else ! ...... the doors are, though, not original but of the pattern fitted to the similar Passenger Brake Vans ( and to Corridor PMVs modified for Ambulance Train use ).

R.W.Kidner includes a photo of 'this' train in his Service Stock of the Southern Railway ( Oakwood Press ; 1993 edition ) and refers to the vans being 1940 vehicles - as I said somewhere above. His ( Lens of Sutton ) photo confirms that they were from that batch as these had a unique arrangement of body steelwork & planking .............BUT - BUT the photo above shows conventional bodywork and must be of A SECOND Southern weedkilling set !

Unfortunately neither Kidner nor Gould ( Southern Railway Passenger Vans ; Oakwood Press ; 1992 ) identifies any of these vehicles by number.

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I've been fortunate enough to find yet more Weed Killing photos on eBay, which seem to be additional photos to the series I posted back in April.

On April 3rd I posted a photo of what was described as "British Railways (Western Region) Civil Engineers Office Photographic Dept. Negative No. C13646. Negative taken 14 NOV 1955", with a handwritten note "Weed killing apparatus on gang trolley - Kingham".

 

The following photo shows the trolley (or should that be trollies?) in much more detail, complete with head and tail lamps. From what I can make out the info on the side of B-237 reads "British Railways Engineering Department Western Region" followed by "Wolverhampton District".

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The notes on the back say British Railways (Western Region) Civil Engineers Office Photographic Dept. Negative No. C13651 Negative taken 14 Nov 1955, with a handwritten note "Weed killing apparatus on gang trolley - Kingham".

 

Interesting that B-237 is fitted with a corrugated iron sheet roof, not sure if the other trolley roof is sheet metal or maybe roofing felt or indeed some other material.

 

Would anyone happen to know, or hazard a guess, as to what the "gismos" are on the trolley roofs?

 

I have a few more photos of the Southern Region spray trains, and some of an Eastern Region spray trolley. I'll post them when I've managed to scan them.

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15 hours ago, iands said:

Would anyone happen to know, or hazard a guess, as to what the "gismos" are on the trolley roofs?

 

Lamp brackets angled such that the operator can confirm the spray is working?

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1 hour ago, keefer said:

I thought they looked like pivoted poles, though what they would be for I've no idea, given they would be a few feet out of gauge when raised!

Ah, could be. Hard to judge just from the photo, but would the "pivoted poles" be out of gauge when raised? Would need to check on dimensions of the trollies (or similar trollies). From memory the (current) height limit above rail is about 4.3 metres - so might be just within gauge. But for what use I've still no idea. 

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Actually, I wonder if the pole would pivot 180⁰ and end up pointing out in front of the cab (or behind, if trailing)?

The shape of the 'lamp iron' piece at the front of the cab roof looks like it might support/fit into the metalwork around the pivot.

If so, then maybe the pole is a higher-level spray 'lance' (spraying sideways to cover embankments etc.)

Just a thought, no idea really!

 

Edited by keefer
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Some more photos, this time of what is described on the back of the photo "E.R. TYPE WEEDKILLER SPRAYING TROLLEY. Side view featuring rail guard." This info is typed on an official Chipman Chemical Co. Ltd label - Photograph No. 283613, and I assume the photography was sub-contracted out as there is also a clear rubber stamp stating "L.F. Asbury, Springfield Studio, 27 North Street, Horsham".

 

So I'm guessing these photos are taken somewhere at Horsham. I'm sorry I don't know that area at all and I'm assuming it is perhaps in the Civil Engineers yard or maybe the loco shed? Anyway, here are the photos.

1550318263_ERSprayTrolley-1.jpg.bd0fa040b156c4a7b54c00505b383cca.jpg

2045985146_ERSprayTrolley-2.jpg.b78be1eab202edd731d7631918a83bb3.jpg

2092298118_ERSprayTrolley-3.jpg.602807bc059c9184ebb62a6c27c783cb.jpg

 

Interesting in the second photo the spray-lance on quite a length of flexible hose for obviously spraying in areas other than the immediate track area of the trolley.

 

Edited by iands
Correcting a typo.
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Interestingly Sodium Chlorate (i.e. Atlacide) was only banned as a weedkiller by the EU in 2009 (with a further year to use up any stock), due to possible health effects. However, it is still in use outside the EU.

I'd expected it to be more typical of the times - something later found to be so toxic that it was outlawed a lot sooner!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_chlorate

Edited by keefer
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Another "official" Chipman Chemical Co. Ltd. photo (L56891). The details on the back read "The twin spray system on the new Chipman Chemical Co., weedkiller spray train ensures that a full dosage of solution is delivered through to the the outer nozzles when the train is travelling at reduced speed. At speeds of less than 10 miles/hour only one set of nozzles is operated."

684693942_SRSprayTrain.jpg.4d6c211f3d0b737e101537b7b14ec312.jpg

 

The next two photos could easily have been posted in the "Human side of the Railway" thread.  Both have a copyright stamp on the back "Star Copyright Central 5000 12, 22, Bouverie Street, EC4." The first of these is referenced G/Harris/N1/Spray Train/B.

946654572_SRSprayTrain-B.jpg.13479194a4c10f501eb27a31a0626b22.jpg

 

And the second one is referenced G/Harris/N1/Spray Train/F. I think this chap also appears in a photo posted on April 2nd.

1271273504_SRSprayTrain-F.jpg.221d088daf1ee5c449a0db732d07115e.jpg

 

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