Brake Vans on services that reverse

[hmrspaul]

My father worked from c1968 in the part of BRB Marylebone on the marketing of movement of oil on rail. He didn't often say much about the job but they were so frustrated by Cardiff being such a bottle neck for the trains they had on offer out of Milford Haven that he did mention this. So, I think that anything that permitted faster running of trains through this area would have been used.

 

And changing the subject, the preparation of brake vans is probably overlooked by most of us whom are not railway people. I was in a Nottingham permanent way depot one Saturday evening in June 1983 photographing wagons and there was one young man preparing fires etc in a fair number of brake vans to be used on Sunday engineering trains. There was quite a lot to do.

 

Paul

[The Johnster]

Johnny Chopsticks; yes, I'd forgotten about him!  I was a freight guard at Canton from 1970 to 1978, and cannot ever recall seeing banana vans or anything else used as fitted heads on valleys coal trains (and there was very little of anything else up there in those days in the way of regular working except Class 116 dmus; the main exception being the Cardiff-Pontypridd Class 4 parcels, Hymek hauled).  The non-MGR coal traffic was, as I am sure Stationmaster Mike will confirm, exclusively 25mph class 9 loose coupled and hauled by Class 37s.  The Llanharry-East Moors iron ore trains were class 8 with shortened instanter couplings, and could run up to 45mph on the SWML, a considerable advantage over a Class 9.   They were worked by Llantrisant men.  This has no bearing on the number of brake vans included in the trains, which is what the OP wanted to know about, which was a matter of convenience at Pengam Reception in this case.  It was probably to save time in order for the traincrew to work 2 trips in one turn of duty.

 

Oil trains were plentiful and part of my bread and butter, and Cardiff was certainly a bottleneck, particularly during the evening rush hour.   The problem was that priority had to be given to ecs movements from Canton Carriage Sidings to the up platforms at Cardiff Central Station, which crossed both the up and the down SWML main lines, and the up and down reliefs.  Traffic from Radyr via the Radyr Quarry route (now the 'City LIne') was even more affected as it had to negotiate the single track Penarth North Curve only to encounter the very busy Valleys dmu traffic into and out of Canton Carriage Sidings.  The loaded oil trains were up close to the limit of the motive power's capacity, and could not be expected to accelerate quickly, so it was understandable that Cardiff Panel held them on the relief or no.1 goods at Canton, or out at Miskin.  Cardiff is still a bottleneck, and there are still plenty of oil trains, but revised track layout and bi-directional working has eased the situation.  

 

Prepping a brake van (always done immaculately at Radyr even when Johnny wasn't on duty) involved ensuring that it carried the correct equipment, and providing it if it was missing; a shunting pole, brake stick, track circuit clips, 2 side and 1 tail lamp with reservoirs filled with paraffin and wicks correctly trimmed, and a pint milk bottle of paraffin.  It was up to the guard to supply the firewood and coal for the stove, even if the yard had prepped the van for him, but at Radyr the fire would be laid and soaked with paraffin, all you had to do was light it.  At Radyr, the van would be swept out and the windows cleaned for you as well.  

 

We usually didn't light the stove until the train was moving and the stove pipe drawing properly, but in cold weather you'd light it earlier.  Johnny would have it lit for you, of course, on any train prepped by him all you had to do was turn up...

[DCB]

Just wondering how they ran round and changed the end of the brake van. I know the Severn and Wye liked two loops flanking the single line to facilitate running around without moving the train without a van attached, but how did they do it at a single loop?

[jim.snowdon]

5 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Just wondering how they ran round and changed the end of the brake van. I know the Severn and Wye liked two loops flanking the single line to facilitate running around without moving the train without a van attached, but how did they do it at a single loop?

With the train in the loop, uncouple the loco and run round to be rear of the train. Pick up the brake van and propel it via the loop to clear of the points at the other end and leave it there. Run the loco via the loop back to the other end of the train, couple up and push the train onto the brake van. With the van coupled, pull the train back inside the loop. Done.

 

Jim 

[russ p]

Most of the time the van would be split from the loco and it would give the ran a good shove so the van ran by on its own

[DCB]

2 hours ago, russ p said:

Most of the time the van would be split from the loco and it would give the ran a good shove so the van ran by on its own

That's what I suspected. Anyone know when Bachmann are bringing out a DCC brake van with power assisted coasting and working brakes so we can do this?

[Rivercider]

On 05/04/2020 at 10:05, Butler Henderson said:

Was there any ruling on the use of brake vans at either end at all like a maximum distance for such workings?

When the aggregates traffic from the Mendips was increasing in the early 1970s large numbers of unfitted iron ore tipplers were initially used. The booked formation of some trains was therefore:-

Loco, piped BV, six fitted tipplers, 20 unfitted tipplers, six fitted tipplers, piped BV. These trains would run from the Mendips to locations in London and the South East.

Fairly soon enough fitted wagons were available so trains became fully fitted,

 

cheers

[number6]

I dug out a Freight Working timetable from 1962 for the SR Central Section. There were often more than one brake van in freights on this region. In the marshalling instructions there are many instances of more than one - sometimes three in a train. More often this is because of multi formation trains to/from different destinations being combined or reversals. 

 

Here is an example - 12.30 am M.O. Tonbridge to Reading West Junc. which would have to reverse at Redhill.

Next down is the same train retimed to 5.50 am after 10th September.

The seven vac wagons next to the engine must include the brake, and then would require there to be at least six next to the brake on the rear too so it complies with instructions after reversal in Redhill. Clues for how to make up model trains are all over these... Fitted heads you see a lot. How often do you see a fitted rear?!

 

I went off down a rabbit hole here and looked at all sorts of instances of multiple brake vans.

 

The Ashford - Shoreham by Sea - which would have to reverse at Redhill - has two and an instruction for the Beeding wagons to be left ready on brake van for the 6.30am. The next one down: Barnham - Bognor conveys two spare. Obviously a balancing working for getting them back where they're needed. There are lots of these peppered around. 

 

[nigb55009]

During the 1980s I worked as a Guard at Springs Branch. Two freight flows used brake vans for operational reasons.

MGR trains from north west area collieries at Bickershaw, Parkside, Bold and Sutton Manor, all had brake vans on the

rear to allow trains to be propelled between Walton Old Junction and Arpley  Junction. This saved having to run round

the train twice, in order to reach the low level lines at Warrington in order to get to Fiddlers Ferry Power Station. Trains

from Yorkshire were originally routed via the Woodhead route and Skelton Junction and didn`t require brake vans. When Woodhead closed these trains ran via Standedge and the WCML, but still didn`t have brake vans. Instead they

ran round at Walton Old Junction and Latchford sidings just beyond Arpley  Junction on the stub of line towards

Skelton Junction.

The other flow was from Lindsay near Immingham to Kelbits Sidings at Ashton-in-Makerfield, these trains conveyed

bitumen for road surfacing. Springs Branch train crew worked these trains from Manchester Victoria via Chat Moss to

St Helens Junction then round to St Helens Shaw St [ now Central ] then via Ince Moss to reach the Haydock branch.

Once on the branch the train was propelled into the sidings. The route was like a big dipper and with only a class 31,

the move had to be made on full power, which made for quite an interesting ride with very little room to spare at the

end of the siding. Once the loads had been positioned for unloading the loco then attached to empties on the adjacent

road. These were then drawn back to the single line and then propelled along the down slow line and the down goods

to Springs Branch, about 3 miles, before heading along the WCML to Golborne Junction and back to Manchester. Later

the train via Golborne and collected and deposited the brake van from the Branch.

Instructions for other propelling moves would be contained in the relevant Sectional Appendix.

[LMS2968]

To bring back some memories: 31s on the Kelbits siding.