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LMS D1905 Brake Third Roof


Guest WM183
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Guest WM183

Hi all.

I am building a Comet models D1905 brake third, and the roof comes as an extruded aluminum - thing - that is quite rigid and looks ok, but the builder is left to install all vents, ducts, and ribbing. Unfortunately the kit comes with only vents, and the instructions dont help explain how the ribs and other details could or should be made. Has anyone built one of these, and if so, could you perhaps give me some pointers on this? I am quite lost here.

 

Confused,

Amanda

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  • RMweb Gold

You could cut very thin strips of electrical insulation tape. I use the tape for boiler bands and works a treat. Might be a little thick for roof ribs though. Drawings or photos would help with positioning.

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Guest WM183

Thanks folks! I found a very good photo in Jenkinson & Essery, which explained away much of my confusion, along with having placed an order for the coach diagram book. Another question however; I intend to run my Ivatt tank with a 3 coach set of BTK - CK - BTK, which I believe is pretty typical of secondary and branch services in early BR days? Would the brake thirds have been to the same diagram, or might a formation like 1905 - 1935 - 1730 have been in use? 

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The suggested method is to print out the instruction sheet PDF http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/data/Catalog/pdf/M43.pdf suitably scaled to the roof. Cut out the roof diagram and tape to the roof. You can then mark out the position of the vents and water fillers etc on the extrusion. Suitably formed brass wire for the tank filler pipe, grab handles etc.

 

For a secondary or branch service in early BR days, it's likely you would see LMS period 2 and even period 1 stock still in use. Period 3 stock such as 1905 and 1935 would still be in use on primary and mainline services until gradually displaced with the introduction of BR mark 1 stock. It really depends on your definition of early. Photographs of workings in your era and area of interest are your friend here. 

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Guest WM183

Thank you Andy. I will help myself to some period II and I stock, and perhaps have my 1905 be an oddball. I am frankly unsure what area I wish to model; somewhere in Yorkshire I suppose, a secondary line perhaps, with a good deal of freight action. I plan to have the line limited to Class 4 locos, so no black 5s or 8Fs or the like; instead, lots of Jintys, Ivatts, and the odd old Midland 3F and 4F on freight. 

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Guest WM183

The state of play, by the way! I have drilled the roof, and assembled the sides to the ends, and built the underframe. These are wonderfully designed kits!

m0kMUpi.jpg

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Guest WM183

Hi John,

Mine stayed nice and flat, I am unsure if I just got lucky or if I was quick enough to avoid this? The white metal bits are now on the underframe and I think that's enough for today!

Woo!

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Guest WM183

A pair of water pipes run down the roof from the passenger end to a toilet filler tank (or are they handrails?) 

Anyway, should they lay on theribs of the roof, or be held up by some kind of stanchions? 

 

Thanks much!

Amanda

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They are water filler pipes.

 

They sit slightly raised from the surface of the roof, probably at the same height as the inlet for the tank filler.

 

Overhead shots of coaches are understandably rare, but I have managed to find this one. It's most likely of a brake 1st as the pipes are filled from the guards end rather than passenger end on a brake 3rd. The pipes seem to be held in place by some form of C-shaped bracket with the pipe running through the back of the curve. Quite how you would reproduce in model form is difficult to say. Maybe a very small split pin?

 

Incidentally, on Hornby's version of D1905, the pipes are held in place by a couple of pairs of very small handrail knobs.

 

A59A5074-ECF6-4A75-9482-9449D3439E4C.jpeg.d81691d5961755c1ef31973a3eb95e25.jpeg

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Make up six inverted-U "hoops" using 0,3 mm ø brass wire and then file (or razor saw) three notches in each of the two water delivery pipes. Solder the hoops into the notches from above so that the hoops are ⅓ to ½ proud of the pipes. At least a few of the hoops will need holes drilled in the aluminium roof to keep them in place, but I would be inclined to do the initial setting up using a small piece of MDF which can be easily and accurately drilled and won't be significantly affected by the soldering work. The bits of the hoops that you haven't drilled holes for in the aluminium roof can then be trimmed so that they just sit on the roof surface. I would probably make up a quick jig to help bend the hoops accurately as you need six of them.

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Hi, some D1905 coaches had water filler pipes coming from the brake end (eg M5684M) also. To attach my filler pipes I get a very thin piece of brass (Bill Bedford wagon brake safety loops), bend it into a ‘u’ shape, place the 'u' over the filler pipe and then squeeze it from below with a pair of pliers - a bit like a split pin. I drill all the required holes for the pipe attachments in the roof and fit the filler pipes, then I use a tiny bit of solder to secure the loop to the pipe. Once happy all the pipes are bent properly (or as best I can) I remove the filler pipes until after painting the coach, then refit them and hand paint  them roof colour. The paint secures the pipes in place too. Hope that helps.

 

974447829_LMSD1905BTKM5684M.jpg.996ad81f6998c20856210591a29a06cc.jpg

 

Iain

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