Justang Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sophia NSE said: How would I run the motor outside the chassis? I think the way to remove the motor really depends on the arrangement of the chassis. If you could post a picture of the chassis and motor it could help. I am not at all a genius when it comes to this sort of thing, so I am only making the suggestion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Justang said: I think the way to remove the motor really depends on the arrangement of the chassis. If you could post a picture of the chassis and motor it could help. I am not at all a genius when it comes to this sort of thing, so I am only making the suggestion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justang Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, Sophia NSE said: That looks like a quite recent chassis so the issue is probably less likely to be the motor mount or the alignment. I probably don't know what I'm talking about so I hope someone else can give some better advice. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 A few minutes work and we have this! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artless Bodger Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 On 24/06/2020 at 16:29, Sophia NSE said: A few minutes work and we have this! It has that Whitstable Crab look to it with the low boiler mountings. Nice, certainly looks better than the original cab. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artless Bodger Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 On 24/06/2020 at 15:52, Justang said: That looks like a quite recent chassis so the issue is probably less likely to be the motor mount or the alignment. I probably don't know what I'm talking about so I hope someone else can give some better advice. FWIW I'll chuck my hat in the ring on this one, having had a few electrical issues in the past. A while ago I bought a cheap multi meter on a stand at an exhibition and I find that useful, but not essential for fault finding. BTW you can download the service sheet on the Hornby website: https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/downloads/service-sheets/ , enter 14xx in the search box, it's number SS227G, shows an exploded diagram, and a spare parts list. In this case a few steps to try - my apologies if you've tried this already. 1. When you apply power with the loco on the track, or direct to the wheels, does it hum? If so it might be a mechanical problem stopping the motor turning, if it doesn't its probably the electrical connection somewhere. Assuming you don't get a dead short. 2. Can you turn the motor armature shaft with your finger tip and get the wheels to turn? If the wheels turn ok then there is no mechanical obstruction in the gear train. If there is an obstruction it might be a bit of loose ballast or similar in the gear teeth. 3. With a couple of wires connected to the controller, at low power apply the ends of the wires to the brush connections on the motor, if you can. They're probably in the white / clear plastic part at the opposite end of the motor to the worm in your photo. If the motor turns there's a break in the circuit between the wheels / pick ups and the motor. If the motor doesn't turn then the motor might be kaputt, or the brushes worn down and not in contact. If it's the brushes, you my be able to get spares - I've no experience with modern motors - X04 and GF Poole N motors are about my limit. Modern ones tend to be can type and not user serviceable but your 14xx chassis doesn't look like that. 4. Assuming the motor turns when current is applied direct to the brush connections, then move one wire back down the wiring path towards the pick ups and wheels step by step, wherever you can get contact. Once one side of the chassis is tested ok by this method move the other wire in a similar way back and you should be able to determine at what point in the circuit you have a break. Some things I've found: Sometimes over enthusiastic oiling or greasing can in itself build up an insulating layer on pickups, I've found a wadge of greasy fluff and dust displacing the wipers on my Minitrix cl27, and I don't run it one the carpet! I clean wheel rins and pick ups with IMS or surgical spirit on a piece of thin cloth (worn out handkerchiefs are good) held in fine tweezers. Carbon deposits on the commutator can also affect the motor by conducting across between windings, the old advice was to carefully clean armature slots with a fine pin or needle, BUT to take care not to scratch the commutator surface. I think though that carbon build up would cause a short. Hope this helps and good luck. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share Posted June 27, 2020 Fixed it!!!!!!!!! Turns out I'd put in a screw and nut the opposite way round and it must have been interfering with the motor. Just tested it and it runs nicely again. I could probably do with a circle of track just to keep it run in. The Tovil paper mills shunter has gained some handrails and a more Maunsell boilered "face". I might even paint it a different colour than green! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artless Bodger Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Sophia NSE said: Fixed it!!!!!!!!! Turns out I'd put in a screw and nut the opposite way round and it must have been interfering with the motor. Just tested it and it runs nicely again. I could probably do with a circle of track just to keep it run in. The Tovil paper mills shunter has gained some handrails and a more Maunsell boilered "face". I might even paint it a different colour than green! Glad to hear you sorted the Q1. Reeds - owners of Upper Tovil and Bridge mills - had green locos with red rods, green wheels in some cases (Aylesford, Imperial and Empire mills). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 Absolutely typical that I think of painting a loco a different colour when that company had green locos too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artless Bodger Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Sophia NSE said: Absolutely typical that I think of painting a loco a different colour when that company had green locos too! Sorry, it's not meant to be proscriptive. Your railway, your rules! Other papermills are (were) available around Tovil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, Artless Bodger said: Sorry, it's not meant to be proscriptive. Your railway, your rules! Other papermills are (were) available around Tovil. I think I can survive with another green loco, maybe a slightly different shade of green to the others. Now where are my acrylic paints...? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 Some paint and a new chassis and we have this Had to do a little body carving and take a tiny piece off the chassis to get it to fit, but I much prefer it as an 0-6-0 Doesn't look too bad next to the Q1 and it might get its own shelf layout to run on. The chassis is probably the most modern part of any of my stock as it's even DCC ready. Any of the experts able to tell me what vans would have been used on paper mill traffic? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 Just set up a circle of track on the dining room table for testing and the results are very encouraging. The shunter is an absolutely fabulous runner, but you knew it would be. The Q1 isn't entirely happy with the radius of curves and is a bit of a noisy old girl but she runs! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artless Bodger Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 9 hours ago, Sophia NSE said: Some paint and a new chassis and we have this Had to do a little body carving and take a tiny piece off the chassis to get it to fit, but I much prefer it as an 0-6-0 Doesn't look too bad next to the Q1 and it might get its own shelf layout to run on. The chassis is probably the most modern part of any of my stock as it's even DCC ready. Any of the experts able to tell me what vans would have been used on paper mill traffic? No expert but FWIW: There are a few photos of the Tovil goods branch - see the Kentrail site, this shows vans behind an electro-diesel, and the covered loading area, not really a goods shed. Try the Historic England site: https://historicengland.org.uk/sitesearch?search=Aylesford+Paper+Mills You will need to wade through it but there are a couple of photos showing vans - normal goods vans as far as I can see. Dad took me round parts of the mill at weekends when I was young, I remember the SR eliptical roof vans in one stockroom loading bay, also opens (highfits? 5plank) with straw used as dunnage packing around wrapped webs (reels) of paper, then sheeted over before despatch - so similar protection against the weather as webs on lorries to Fleet St etc - note the photos on the HE website showing lorries delivering paper reels - they've taken the sheets off to show the paper, normally you would not see the individual reels (too vulnerable to damp), just the lumpy outline under the sheets. Vans would be used for palleted loads, e.g. packed reams, small counter reels of wrapping paper etc. The paper sacks were loaded in tied bundles as might box blanks (cut, glued, corrugated cases laid flat). That covers outbound traffic. Inbound could include any goods vans with bagged starch, bagged clay, dyes and pigments in sacks or drums, bagged rosin. Chlorine tankers of course (for a big mill, I dont think Tovil used it), maybe caustic soda (again not Tovil & Bridge to my knowledge, though Allnutt's and Hayle were rag mills and usually rags are boiled with caustic to soften and swell the fibre before breaking - Allnutt's had a rag boiler, but I didn't see one at Hayle on my one visit). Woodpulp arrived mainly by river in lighters. Coal. I'm not aware of any of the Reed Mills, or Allnutt's having any private owner wagons, but I only knew them in the 60s onwards. Oh, and if you fancy some special traffic - Allnutt's took delivery of a new Lancashire boiler sometime in the 20s or 30s, brought into Tovil goods by a C class (or an O1) and rolled off the wagon, down the embankment to road level where it was winched onto a solid tyred trailer and drawn round to the mill with a traction engine - Mum had a set of photos of the event, I've asked my brother if they were kept after she died, so I may be lucky. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted July 4, 2020 Author Share Posted July 4, 2020 That's certainly some very useful information, thanks. Makes my life a lot easier knowing I can use regular vans for paper traffic and maybe have a special delivery occasionally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artless Bodger Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 Hi Sophia I've realised I pasted the wrong address for the Historic England photos, should have been: https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/photos/results/?searchType=HE+Archive+New&search=Aylesford+Paper+Mills NB. Some are of Colthrop near Thatcham, part of the Reed Group but clearly not the Kent mills. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 On 04/07/2020 at 11:26, Sophia NSE said: Some paint and a new chassis and we have this Had to do a little body carving and take a tiny piece off the chassis to get it to fit, but I much prefer it as an 0-6-0 Doesn't look too bad next to the Q1 and it might get its own shelf layout to run on. The chassis is probably the most modern part of any of my stock as it's even DCC ready. Any of the experts able to tell me what vans would have been used on paper mill traffic? Cute. However, I would personally give the shunter a slightly taller chimney so that it's taller than the cab, otherwise the smoke would blow back into the cab through the openings rather than it all being carried over. Glad to hear they're both running though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share Posted July 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, RedGemAlchemist said: Cute. However, I would personally give the shunter a slightly taller chimney so that it's taller than the cab, otherwise the smoke would blow back into the cab through the openings rather than it all being carried over. Glad to hear they're both running though. I do have a spare plastic chimney from a 14xx knocking around so that might look better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 Just bought another half dozen R1 bodies for barely any money to make an improved version of the Q1 and maybe backdate one into an as built R. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artless Bodger Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 If you fancy a Manning Wardle tank engine, have a look at page 24 of this edition of the Colonel Stephens Soc https://colonelstephenssociety.co.uk/onewebmedia/Colonel 119 compressed.pdf - an MW engine working for contractors building the Tovil Goods branch, crossing the road just by Allnutt's Lower Tovil Mill. The bridge was replaced with a permanent one. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Belcher Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 On 27/06/2020 at 23:26, Artless Bodger said: Glad to hear you sorted the Q1. Reeds - owners of Upper Tovil and Bridge mills - had green locos with red rods, green wheels in some cases (Aylesford, Imperial and Empire mills). The liquid chlorine tanker is very reminiscent of the old Triang 'Murgatroyd' one! David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artless Bodger Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 6 hours ago, David_Belcher said: The liquid chlorine tanker is very reminiscent of the old Triang 'Murgatroyd' one! David It is indeed, when we received notice that the 4w tanks would be replaced with the bogie ones, we were sent a drawing (our siding had to be re-aligned, spurs lengthened and the discharge platform moved), the drawing was lettered for Murgatroyds. One of my regrets is that I didn't spirit it away when the chlorine deliveries were discontinued. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 Here we go again! The front buffer beam has been removed and the plastic filed back to a more prototypical length. I might even be brave enough to remove the sanding boxes from the running plate 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 The lads at Tovil Works aren't hanging about!! This version has somehow gained a slightly longer bunker and looks quite good in black 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 At this rate it'll be ready for the first train to Maidstone West on Monday!! I do think it looks a lot better without the longer overhang at the front 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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