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The Grand Midland Hotel, St Pancras Station ~1903-1907


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2 hours ago, Kris said:

I think that a single word would sum this up...

 

 

Sunning. 

You're not supposed to be sunning yourself these days!  :nono:

 

I'd say stunning, myself!!

 

Jim

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10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It was evidently inhabited by kindred spirits in the 1880s when John O'Connor painted this, judging by their inability to throw anything away.

You would be surprised at how much the Club does get rid of.  However, Keen House is a finite size and our aspirations aren’t.  The painting is from slightly further up the Pentonville Rd than Calshot St, where Keen House was built 60 years ago.

 

As has already been mentioned, it would be fantastic to get the London 2mm layouts all together, even in an unfinished state.  When this curious Covid state is over, maybe we should organise something at Keen House one weekend.  

 

Tim

President, The Model Railway Club 

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25 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

You would be surprised at how much the Club does get rid of.  However, Keen House is a finite size and our aspirations aren’t.  The painting is from slightly further up the Pentonville Rd than Calshot St, where Keen House was built 60 years ago.

 

As has already been mentioned, it would be fantastic to get the London 2mm layouts all together, even in an unfinished state.  When this curious Covid state is over, maybe we should organise something at Keen House one weekend.  

 

Tim

President, The Model Railway Club 

 

Here are links to the London 2mm layouts that I know of

 

The last one is the buildings for London Bridge.

 

It would be amazing to see them all in one place.

 

 

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20 hours ago, garygfletcher said:

On the same trip I had found a new technique for 3d printing, in the several weeks I was there I decided I would take some time to model as many detailed parts as I could to bring back with me.

 

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Quite outstanding modelling, 

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A breath taking project!  Inspirational stuff.

 

Such a shame that the 3d printed loco bodies are too fragile in 2mm.  Could a different resin be the solution?  Is it worth scaling them up to 3 or 4mm to that your effort in CAD design isn't wasted?

 

Regards

 

Duncan

 

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40 minutes ago, drduncan said:

A breath taking project!  Inspirational stuff.

 

Such a shame that the 3d printed loco bodies are too fragile in 2mm.  Could a different resin be the solution?  Is it worth scaling them up to 3 or 4mm to that your effort in CAD design isn't wasted?

 

Regards

 

Duncan

 

 

I would certainly be interested in a 3mm version of those bodies. Or possibly a 2mm version.

 

Is the fragility about the whole loco or just the chassis/wheels?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm trying to determine how to model the streets and facade of what was the New Road and then later the Euston Road if memory serves. It seems to be a mix of cobbles and manure and sand/hay. It seems very fine and very variable. It's certainly subtle. It feels hard to achieve. Any suggestions on plasticard suppliers close to anything found here would be grateful, I seem to be going around in circles on deciding. Also flagstone plasticard, seems very hard to find something "right".

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To run stuff up north, I need some stock.

 

I started on some carriages. These are the first carriages I've ever built, I'm reasonably happy with them, I'll get better as I practice more! These of course are bain arc roofs, the clerestory carriages look very difficult.

 

There is a lot more to go, and therefore a lot more to practice on. I have a whole box full of etches from different suppliers, mostly just the carriages and no instructions! 

 

I've decided this is a tedious process. Once you have a carriages shape that's only the beginning! They need painting on the inside, glazing, seating and partitions in place and then the underneaths done and then of course painting and lining - this is an enormous job.

 

I'm going to try and dedicate the weekend to it, I won't get far!

 

 

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Ian Lister (who lives near me) has a very effective technique for cobbles - light weight Polyfilla (the stuff which feels like the can is empty when you pick it up), spread over the area in a thin layer (say 1 to 2mm deep), and leave to dry.  The resulting surface is soft, and will take indents from tools and cutters very easily.   Use a filed up embossing tool to push the impression of each stone into the ground.  The tool is square or rectangular brass tube with the faces filed a bit thinner near the end.  

Once the basis is mastered, its surprisingly quick. 

Then paint with water based paint for base colour, add weathering, powders etc. to show the fill between cobbles, etc.

 

- Nigel

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14 minutes ago, Nigelcliffe said:

Ian Lister (who lives near me) has a very effective technique for cobbles - light weight Polyfilla (the stuff which feels like the can is empty when you pick it up), spread over the area in a thin layer (say 1 to 2mm deep), and leave to dry.  The resulting surface is soft, and will take indents from tools and cutters very easily.   Use a filed up embossing tool to push the impression of each stone into the ground.  The tool is square or rectangular brass tube with the faces filed a bit thinner near the end.  

Once the basis is mastered, its surprisingly quick. 

Then paint with water based paint for base colour, add weathering, powders etc. to show the fill between cobbles, etc.

 

- Nigel

 

Ian described some of his work on his 2mm thread here;

 

 

Andy

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For the flagstone pavement I'd say printed papers are your best bet. Embossed plasticard is too coarse for 2mm scale. Same applies to brickwork and dressed stone. 

 

Jim 

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On 08/04/2020 at 11:49, drduncan said:

A breath taking project!  Inspirational stuff.

 

Such a shame that the 3d printed loco bodies are too fragile in 2mm.  Could a different resin be the solution?  Is it worth scaling them up to 3 or 4mm to that your effort in CAD design isn't wasted?

 

Regards

 

Duncan

 


Here is a class 156, that’s only ever been in and out of a draw and box carefully. If reasonably to scale it’s just too fragile. It is also as light as a feather. It would certainly work well if etched and the 3d cad has been quickly and easily converted for this purpose. In essence you need much thicker frames like the RTR models do and at the moment I don’t think that would look right. It may well work for 3mm, but also may lack detail. Have to experiment!!

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On CF we use Slaters N gauge Random Stone wall. The aspect ratio isn’t correct but it gives a simple uniform appearance.  The secret is to

build in the road camber, gutters and other details and then paint in with all the muck of a London road of the era. 
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This image shows some at an earlier stage of placement.  Printed pavements have been laid, but require significant amounts of further painting & weathering. 

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When the world returns to normal Gary, I’ll show you how we do it: it’s very quick to do. 
 

Tim

Edited by CF MRC
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4 hours ago, garygfletcher said:


Here is a class 156, that’s only ever been in and out of a draw and box carefully. If reasonably to scale it’s just too fragile. It is also as light as a feather. It would certainly work well if etched and the 3d cad has been quickly and easily converted for this purpose. In essence you need much thicker frames like the RTR models do and at the moment I don’t think that would look right. It may well work for 3mm, but also may lack detail. Have to experiment!!

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Hi Gary,

 

I find that the secret is to keep the wall thickness to at least 0.7mm and use chamfers to make things appear thinner at the edges. Even then you'll probably find it necessary to make some minor compromises to some dimensions, but nothing that will be noticable on the finished model.

 

Hopefully you can see what I mean on the steps of the J6 CAD below.

 

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How the physical model looks.

 

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Hope this helps.

Edited by Atso
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3 hours ago, Atso said:

 

Hi Gary,

 

I find that the secret is to keep the wall thickness to at least 0.7mm and use chamfers to make things appear thinner at the edges. Even then you'll probably find it necessary to make some minor compromises to some dimensions, but nothing that will be noticable on the finished model.

 

Hopefully you can see what I mean on the steps of the J6 CAD below.

 

1731117739_2019J6Body3591.jpg.ac7a1e747138cf53b148dc4ae0e8c679.jpg

 

How the physical model looks.

 

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Hope this helps.

 

That has come out really very nice! What printer are you using there?

 

I think you are quite right, 0.7mm is the minimum wall thickness for handling. However, I find these Midland Engines are very delicate and little. They just do not look right at that resolution, I did try.

 

10 thou brass/nickel sheet etches are 0.254 millimetres and that requires any print really to be 3 times thicker (x2.75), there isn't really a compromise if you consider how much a model gets handled at an exhibition and I do hope this will be an exhibition worthy model.

 

If you look at the resolution of the commercial printer I have access to, you can see it can achieve amazing resolution and I have played with thicknesses a lot.

 

You can see I have even tried printing in a brass composite in once of the images here, experimentation led to just trying to nicely print the boiler but in reality this wasn't ideal, it is hard to get sharp edges on that printer and the material is surprisingly light. 

 

I've come to the conclusion I shouldn't really cheat it by 3d printing the locos. Which may be silly because I need an awful lot of them on St Pancras - they often double headed and there is 8 platforms!

 

When I look at Tim Watson's, Richard Wilson's, Simon Bolton's and Jerry Clifford's little Midland Engines (the later having quite recently having made theirs) its made me focus on 3d printing other things rather than full locos. I'm not saying all mind, but these little Midland Engines in particular.

 

I wonder if others have come to the same conclusion and perhaps why when I looked recently a lot of people have 3d printed wagons but used etches for the under frame, I'm not sure - would love to know opinion.

 

Really I think I might use a hybrid and use the 3d printer for detail and moulds. In fact I have been playing with resin recently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 24/04/2020 at 15:46, garygfletcher said:

I'm trying to determine how to model the streets and facade of what was the New Road and then later the Euston Road if memory serves. It seems to be a mix of cobbles and manure and sand/hay. It seems very fine and very variable. It's certainly subtle. It feels hard to achieve. Any suggestions on plasticard suppliers close to anything found here would be grateful, I seem to be going around in circles on deciding. Also flagstone plasticard, seems very hard to find something "right".

 

There are various rollers available on Shapeways for impressing cobbles into a plaster, DAS or clay surface. RailNscale do various patterns, including tram tracks:

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/SXRUT7DCX/2x-steinpflaster-stempel-28mm-n-1-160

 

 

 

Edited by Ian Morgan
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Amazing project Gary.

 

As an architect, I was lucky enough to work on the new station refurbishment when I was with Norman Foster’s studio....I even got to walk over the roof arch and stare down across the station throat which will stay with me forever.

 

Watching with great interest :good:

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 27/04/2020 at 19:47, bcnPete said:

Amazing project Gary.

 

As an architect, I was lucky enough to work on the new station refurbishment when I was with Norman Foster’s studio....I even got to walk over the roof arch and stare down across the station throat which will stay with me forever.

 

Watching with great interest :good:

 

Jealous is an understatement! Do share any pictures if you have some. I was most impressed when someone on one of those tours sent me a picture of the original front awning that was discovered in an undercroft in the basement. The colour of the awning was totally different to the postcards that were hand painted (apparently in Germany) of the time. There were of course no coloured photos at this time and I believed the colour in the postcard was true, however, it as I am told, most unlikely that these can ever be relied on as the painter/producer was highly unlikely to have ever seen the actual building itself and is just a mere interpretation. 

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Well, the Grand Midland Hotel has been undertaking a roofing over a cold quiet evening.

 

Unfortunately it seems we are not as blessed as the 'oo' modellers who have a remarkably close plasticard from "wills roof slate' that matches the rough hand cut I would presume the slate had on the original build when it opened in 1873.

 

I opted for slaters 2mm roof slate, because Jerry Cliffords Midland Engine shed looks rather remarkable, but the pattern is very much repetitive and is more representative of the renovation of the roof in 2007.

 

For the eagle eyed you will notice quite a few differences between then and now, some parts now titled were not so at the time of the original build - as you can see in the comparison on the towers above the front entrance. 

 

I will aruldite/epoxy the card to the skeleton frame after gluing the adjoining edges together with a suitable solvent for this plasticard, I presume its polystyrene. I bought something at a exhibition called "Plastic Magic" I will probably try this unless anyone has any suitable suggestions?

 

 

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DL-limonene is my (and others') preferred solvent.  Not as aggressive as some others and more pleasant to use.

 

Jim

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